Full Version: Self-Actualization
Enhanced Articulation is for Physical Skills, only, not for Combat Skills.
I am not sure if you can add in enhanced articulation. The description says physical skills linked to a physical attribute. There is a group of skills called Physical Active Skills, which does not include the combat active skills.
I can't remember off hand if this was addressed in the FAQ or elsewhere.
I can't remember off hand if this was addressed in the FAQ or elsewhere.
Cool, thats a good thing in this situation then.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Off the top of my head, barring edge, I came up with 27 dice in the biggest Ranged attack pool. 12 - Agility + Elf + Pos Quality + Augmented 9 - Skill + Specialization + Pos Quality 2 - Smartlink 1 - Reflex Recorder 3 - Adept skill power This is supposed to be the best of the best, but yeah, you can get it straight out of CharGen. Edit: Removed 'Enhanced Articulation' |
Ahhhh, let me just rearrange this to get it straight in my head.
12 Attribute is fine.
The improved ability power and the reflex recorder both count against the skill cap, IIRC, so that means your modified skill is 10. (7 with aptitude +50% rounded down)
Smartlink and specialization are bonus dice, so they don't count against the cap, so that's +4 more.
So I get 26 dice max.
Unless I'm wrong about the adept skill power and reflex recorder falling under the skill cap.
The only way I can think of off the top of my head to get past that is to be a high-grade initiate adept and replace the smartlink with item attunement, but I think you have to be grade 5 before the modifier hits +3 and even begins to be worth replacing the smartlink for, since they aren't compatible.
...to further expand of the use of threshold vs. spells, this would only be for direct/indirect combat spells. Other spells, such as elemental manipulations (resisted with 1/2 impact armour + armour enhancements) or Transformation Manipulation spells (which already have an attribute threshold) would not be subject to this.
I am still working on some way to give a little edge against Mental Manipulations (which also tend to run roughshod over mundanes) as well since some of these spells only need one hit to be fully effective.
In my campaigns I have outrightly banned Mind Probe (Both for PCs and NPCs).
I am still working on some way to give a little edge against Mental Manipulations (which also tend to run roughshod over mundanes) as well since some of these spells only need one hit to be fully effective.
In my campaigns I have outrightly banned Mind Probe (Both for PCs and NPCs).
Hmmm, while I'm looking at maximum dice pools for shooting a gun, let's go down the list:
Adept elf: 26+ (the + is for the high-grade initiate adept)
Adept human: 24+ (10 att +10 skill +4 bonus)
Cybered mundane elf: 24 (12 att +8 skill +4 bonus)
Cybered mundane human: 22 (10 att +8 skill +4 bonus)
Uncybered mundane elf: 17 (8 att + 7skill +2bonus)
Uncybered mundane human (for "real world" comparison: 16 (7att +7skill +2 bonus)
Note the values for the cybered mundanes will approach the adept values if/when we get more than 1 bit of cyber/bio that falls within the skill cap, or if reflex recorders start coming in multiple levels.
Adept elf: 26+ (the + is for the high-grade initiate adept)
Adept human: 24+ (10 att +10 skill +4 bonus)
Cybered mundane elf: 24 (12 att +8 skill +4 bonus)
Cybered mundane human: 22 (10 att +8 skill +4 bonus)
Uncybered mundane elf: 17 (8 att + 7skill +2bonus)
Uncybered mundane human (for "real world" comparison: 16 (7att +7skill +2 bonus)
Note the values for the cybered mundanes will approach the adept values if/when we get more than 1 bit of cyber/bio that falls within the skill cap, or if reflex recorders start coming in multiple levels.
Why ban Mind Probe?
It has a threshold of 4 to get all the information, the subject is usually aware of the probe (so passwords can be changed).
Every attempt at mind probe adds a 2 die penalty, cumulative.
It is not the answer to everything, as not feveryone will know everything.
Also, in my worlds, there is often deliberate misinformation spread, and not just to counter mind probe.
It has a threshold of 4 to get all the information, the subject is usually aware of the probe (so passwords can be changed).
Every attempt at mind probe adds a 2 die penalty, cumulative.
It is not the answer to everything, as not feveryone will know everything.
Also, in my worlds, there is often deliberate misinformation spread, and not just to counter mind probe.
| QUOTE (Garrowolf) |
| The thing about having extreme shots is that I think that is the main reason to NOT have such high dice pools in the first place. An impossible shot shot should have almost no dice left and a high threshold. Only with edge could you take the shot at all. The problem isn't the dice mechanic. The problem is that there is no sense of scale to these numbers. People are starting with inhumanly high numbers and don't realize it. There is no grittiness to this game because it is too easy to be too powerful. |
i'm not up to going through all this again. if you're really interested in the subject, search the forums for "die mechanics", "fixed TN", or "variable TN", and you'll find the whole thing dissected and layed out for easy perusal. if you want to see the actual math, search for threads started by Ellery. there's nothing i could say here that hasn't already been said, so i'm just going to finish this with a sincere nuh-uhhh.
Just because it piqued my interest... isn't Powerbolt resisted with body, not willpower?
You are correct, X.
| QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
| Why ban Mind Probe? It has a threshold of 4 to get all the information, the subject is usually aware of the probe (so passwords can be changed). Every attempt at mind probe adds a 2 die penalty, cumulative. It is not the answer to everything, as not feveryone will know everything. Also, in my worlds, there is often deliberate misinformation spread, and not just to counter mind probe. |
...passwords? Never heard of passwords on subconscious thought before (except maybe for Technomancers?).
In my experience I have found this spell to be a lazy substitute for legwork and "hard" investigation. Dealing with mages that throw large spell DPs + Edge (either in the initial roll or to re-roll failures) tends to blow though the threshold almost every time. When I attempted to use disinformation, things usually broke down into a rules debate of "that wouldn't work that way because I got into their subconscious & know everything".
At the very least, I would make it a touch range spell only for the casting mage as well.
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) |
| Just because it piqued my interest... isn't Powerbolt resisted with body, not willpower? |
...my bad, it was no doubt a mana bolt she was hit with during the mission (or the GM screwed up by making her roll WP)
| QUOTE (Mistwalker) |
| I am not sure if you can add in enhanced articulation. The description says physical skills linked to a physical attribute. There is a group of skills called Physical Active Skills, which does not include the combat active skills. I can't remember off hand if this was addressed in the FAQ or elsewhere. |
Well, the fluff text certainly seems to indicate that it might work on actions such as melee combat and shooting, since they are tied to physical attributes. Or at least I remember them having a similar effect in SR3. Wish I had my Man & Machine now... yay for builders!
mm.066:+1RCT, 1 addt'l die to Combat, Physical, Technical,& B/R skill tests. Personally, I'd give them similiar capabilities in SR4 because I can't imagine them changing much over 6 - 10 years. I would rule that the bonus wouldn't apply to cyberlimbs though... much as they are already treated like the redheaded step-child of cyberware.
I see your point about consistency, but you're not going to argue that, in SR3, Enhanced Articulation is not horrendously overpowered, are you?
I think the above SR4 interpretation makes it good, balanced, useful 'ware without making any character who doesn't get it a self-nerfing moron.
I think the above SR4 interpretation makes it good, balanced, useful 'ware without making any character who doesn't get it a self-nerfing moron.
It's still a fairly expensive item for only a +1, and it doesn't even give bonus reaction anymore. If you're that vehement on it not adding to combat tests, I'd at the very least allow it to apply to technical tests/B&R tests.
well. . . it can still apply to gymnastics dodge 
| QUOTE (2bit) |
| well. . . it can still apply to gymnastics dodge |
So can the (less expensive) Synthacardium. If Enhanced Articulation only covers strictly "Physical" skills from the "physical skill group" then very few of them are worthwhile at all. Infiltration and Shadowing are the only two that really come to mind.
Shadowing is linked to Intuition; doesn't apply.
According to the interpretation that Enhanced Articulation applies to skills in the Physical Active Skills group that are linked to Physical Attributes it gives +1 to 9 skills. They are:
Climbing, Diving, Escape Artist, Gymnastics, Infiltration, Palming, Parachuting, Running, and Swimming
36 BP worth of skills for 8BP worth of money and 0.3 essence.
Now I will freely admit that some of those skills are next to useless, but I still have a hard time seeing the argument that this bit of 'ware is underpowered.
According to the interpretation that Enhanced Articulation applies to skills in the Physical Active Skills group that are linked to Physical Attributes it gives +1 to 9 skills. They are:
Climbing, Diving, Escape Artist, Gymnastics, Infiltration, Palming, Parachuting, Running, and Swimming
36 BP worth of skills for 8BP worth of money and 0.3 essence.
Now I will freely admit that some of those skills are next to useless, but I still have a hard time seeing the argument that this bit of 'ware is underpowered.
...I could also see it working with (non rigged) pilot skills.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||
...passwords? Never heard of passwords on subconscious thought before (except maybe for Technomancers?). In my experience I have found this spell to be a lazy substitute for legwork and "hard" investigation. Dealing with mages that throw large spell DPs + Edge (either in the initial roll or to re-roll failures) tends to blow though the threshold almost every time. When I attempted to use disinformation, things usually broke down into a rules debate of "that wouldn't work that way because I got into their subconscious & know everything". At the very least, I would make it a touch range spell only for the casting mage as well. |
Not sure if it is because my players are older, more used to my tyranical ways, or just more accepting of the world that have described to them, but I haven't had any problem when I limit the answers to their questions.
Not sure if you do this as well, but I only give them the information to their direct question. I don't provide "extra" or "relevant" information unless they specifically ask for it.
Ex.: Who killed Billy Bob? Twitchy Maurice. The target sincerely believes that Twitchy did the execution, but unless they ask specific questions, they don't get that Twitchy uses Warhawk unless they ask, that he hates SAs with a passion.
So, later, when the find out that Billy Bob was killed by a Predater, they don't know that that is a big clue that Twitchy may not have killed Billy Bob, and that someone may be setting him up, or everyone just assumes that that Twitchy is guilty.
In the climax, when they arrive and see Twitchy facing off against Normal Frank, who is armed with a predater, they may kill the wrong person, allowing the nemisis to blow up the stadium (or other such dire consequence).
There are all kinds of ways of doing it, even without going into what the subconcious knows or doesn't know (who says it's any smarter?
). It may notice things more, but unless you ask the right question, it won't volunteer the info.Or, you can have the behind the scenes genius boss, set things up so that when his henchmen get caught, they give up the information he want's the runners (or any other opponents) to know. He deliberately set's them up, and since they aren't the brightest, neither they nor their subconcious know it.
Think I had better stop before I ramble on and on and on
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