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Tomothy
I was just wondering, is there any reason why a Dragon couldn't be a Technomancer?
Cynic project
Dragons need magic, technomancers can't have magic?
fistandantilus4.0
Guess we'll see what happens with Eliohann. He was in the system during the crash, like so many other people that became technmancers. That may settle the arguement about whether or not technomancers/otaku are magical. Dragon loses it's magical ability but becomes a technomancer. hmmm...
Tomothy
Right, I just assumed technomancers were magical, it hadn't even occured to me that they might not be. nyahnyah.gif
TheOOB
The fact that it is possible (though difficult) to assense someone as a technomancer is huge evidence that a technomancer is in fact magical, but it's not proof.

Then again, no body even agrees on what magic is, so you think they'll be able to agree on technomancers, which haven't been around nearly as long?
Ravor
Except of course for the fact that before you can tell if someone is a Technomancer or not you have also figured out...

(1) Whether the target is Mundane or Awakened, healthy or ill, and general emotional state.

(2) Whether and where any implanted basic cyberware is.

(3) Able to compare whether your Essense & Magic are higher, lower, or equal to theirs.

(4) Whether and where any implanted basic Bioware is, the target's exact Essence & Magic, and an accurate diagnosis of any posion/sickness the target might have.

(5) Whether or not the target is a Technomancer or not.

Now the problem with Technomancers being 'Magical' is twofold, firstly, why aren't they stated as pinging as 'Awakened' along with everything else magical? Secondly, unless I've missed something in my searches of both the Core Rules and Street Magic the only way for a mage to tell if the "Awakened" meta-human is a Mage, Adept, ect is to wait until their magical abilities manifest, because reading their aura will never tell you for sure. But yet, if you get enough sucesses then someone who had previsiously read as 'mundane' will instead start pinging as a 'Technomancer'?

To me at least the agrument about Technomancers = Magical doesn't add up, but I guess we'll have to wait for Emergence and see if the devs weigh in one way or the other although personally I'd say that safe money is that they'll keep silent on the issue and that they possibly might not even know themselves.
nathanross
I also think they are still grappling with their newborn child. As for dragons, I pray to god that they cant be. It would be a fundamental schism in Shadowrun dogma. Magic and Resonance are mutually exclusive and dragons cannot survive without magic as it is part of their physiology (I know that's weird).

I know they love to come out with, "Hey, there is an NPC that can do this!" or "You know that thing you though was an established fact? IT WASNT!"

Some things they say I can see, but someones dies the day Dragons resonate.
TheOOB
Well if an established fact where to be broken, it would be a dragon who would do it.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Guess we'll see what happens with Eliohann. He was in the system during the crash, like so many other people that became technmancers. That may settle the arguement about whether or not technomancers/otaku are magical. Dragon loses it's magical ability but becomes a technomancer. hmmm...

Where was that? I just looked over my copy of System Failure and I didn't see any reference to the jacked dragon. Could you point me?
Thanee
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Mar 9 2007, 05:27 AM)
The fact that it is possible (though difficult) to assense someone as a technomancer is huge evidence that a technomancer is in fact magical, but it's not proof.


It's a rather huge counter-evidence, actually... you assense magic easily and assensing tech is hard. It's up there with deltaware. About as non-magical (in the SR astral/magic sense) as it gets.

Bye
Thanee
TheOOB
Well the fact that the players, third party observers, can't agree on what technomancers are doesn't give much hope for the poor people of the sixth world figuring it out.
Mistwalker
Why not?

They are actually living it, not trying to understand it with outdated tech, knowledge and experiences.

Plus, I think a lot more will be known once Emergence comes out.
Thanee
They are the Neo!

Bye
Thanee
Ancient History
QUOTE (Thanee)
They are the Neo!

Bye
Thanee

Shit. Neo is a punk who read Virtual Realities 1.0 and the complete run of The Invisibles.
toturi
QUOTE (Cynic project)
Dragons need magic, technomancers can't have magic?

Just because a PC cannot both be Awakened and a Technomancer at the same time doesn't mean that an NPC cannot.
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (toturi)
QUOTE (Cynic project @ Mar 9 2007, 12:00 PM)
Dragons need magic, technomancers can't have magic?

Just because a PC cannot both be Awakened and a Technomancer at the same time doesn't mean that an NPC cannot.

You did not just say that after all that arguing about flechette ammo in Ares Viper Slivergun and the Remington 990. The rules explicitly state that you cannot be both magically active and a technomancer. They cannot even take the little magical qualities like Latent Awakening.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (bibliophile20)
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Mar 8 2007, 11:12 PM)
Guess we'll see what happens with Eliohann. He was in the system during the crash, like so many other people that became technmancers. That may settle the arguement about whether or not technomancers/otaku are magical. Dragon loses it's magical ability but becomes a technomancer. hmmm...

Where was that? I just looked over my copy of System Failure and I didn't see any reference to the jacked dragon. Could you point me?

There's a part about an email being sent to Celedyr about "Neurosis". Neurosis was one of the handles Eliohann used according to his entry in DoSW.

The email said that Neurosis was in the Matrix when the crash happened and was unresponsive, asking for instruction.s Celedyr replied to keep him jacked in.
Ophis
QUOTE (Cynic project)
Dragons need magic, technomancers can't have magic?

But equally Orks need magic to be Orks, they don't suddenly become human if the awaken to the matrix do they?

I would strip a Resonant Dragon of any power that actually requires a magic rating to use (ie most offensive stuff). They'd also lose their dual natured state.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
QUOTE (bibliophile20 @ Mar 9 2007, 02:26 AM)
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Mar 8 2007, 11:12 PM)
Guess we'll see what happens with Eliohann. He was in the system during the crash, like so many other people that became technmancers. That may settle the arguement about whether or not technomancers/otaku are magical. Dragon loses it's magical ability but becomes a technomancer. hmmm...

Where was that? I just looked over my copy of System Failure and I didn't see any reference to the jacked dragon. Could you point me?

There's a part about an email being sent to Celedyr about "Neurosis". Neurosis was one of the handles Eliohann used according to his entry in DoSW.

The email said that Neurosis was in the Matrix when the crash happened and was unresponsive, asking for instruction.s Celedyr replied to keep him jacked in.

*looks* Jeeeze... and look at the section after that--it makes alot more sense now... Oh dear... this is gonna be interesting.
fistandantilus4.0
thanks, saves me from digging out my books for page references. I had a thread on this a while back, but mostly it was just conjecture since there's really no way to know what's up with it until they release something new.

I hate dangling plot threads, like the whole Saito thing. Hopefully both of these will be, if not wrapped, at least addressed soon. Emergence qould be cool for the Eliohann thing, if not Unwired. Hoping for something on Saito/SF in Crop Encalves, but not exactly holding my breath.
Mistwalker
curiouser and curiouser

I hope that they don't allow dragons to go into the matrix. It is the one area where metahumanity surpasses dragons.

And, it would allow the possibility of an advantage over the horrors, when they come.
fistandantilus4.0
They're already in the matrix. Look at celedyr and Eliohann. Or do you mean like otaku/technomancers?
guy-jin
QUOTE (Mistwalker)
And, it would allow the possibility of an advantage over the horrors, when they come.

I always thought that the end of the 4th world was the end of the horrors... has FASA ever implied otherwise?
Ancient History
QUOTE (guy-jin)
QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Mar 9 2007, 03:26 PM)
And, it would allow the possibility of an advantage over the horrors, when they come.

I always thought that the end of the 4th world was the end of the horrors... has FASA ever implied otherwise?

Implied, yes.
Jaid
QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (guy-jin @ Mar 10 2007, 01:51 AM)
QUOTE (Mistwalker @ Mar 9 2007, 03:26 PM)
And, it would allow the possibility of an advantage over the horrors, when they come.

I always thought that the end of the 4th world was the end of the horrors... has FASA ever implied otherwise?

Implied, yes.

if by "implied" you mean "the horrors have already started to come back, in a few very limited situations"....

then i agree.
Garrowolf
who says that the resonance doesn't touch a new realm of horrors? Ones that were never contacted before because they didn't have technology high enough. Maybe something truely alien?
TheOOB
Heres the real question, if a technomacer magician existed, could they use magic in the matrix and complex forms in the astral? That would be pretty screwed up.
nathanross
THAT WOULD ROCK!

Poor little sprite looking for hosts. biggrin.gif
Poor spirits trapped in a machine. frown.gif
dionysus
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
who says that the resonance doesn't touch a new realm of horrors? Ones that were never contacted before because they didn't have technology high enough. Maybe something truely alien?

Can I ask for enlightenment on the horrors? What are they?
Ravor
Ancient beings the exist in one of the Outer Metaplanes they come to Earth when the Mana Levels get high enough and destroy/eat/corrupt everything that doesn't have the good sense and enough magical might to run away and hide in the smallest darkest corner they can find and pray to whatever Gods might listen that their hiding place isn't discovered before the Mana Level ebbs again.

They are a huge part of Earthdawn, aka the Fourth Age and they will come again and destroy whatever puny resistance meta-humanity is able to muster.

*Edit*

And appearently according to something I read on the forums Big D had some concern that with the invent of technology people wouldn't be able to hide this time around. If he was right then and meta-humanity is forced to fight instead of running, then those who die in the first wave are very likely the lucky ones, at least in my opinion.

fistandantilus4.0
dionysus, I'd suggest using the search function for info on the horrors. There's plenty of it on the forums, and it'd be eaiser than having the old arguements all over again. If you still have questions, start a thread about it. We'll answer.
bibliophile20
I have to wonder...

How would the Horrors (whose stats I am unaware of, but whose reputation I am getting to be quite familiar with) deal with a Thor shot, an orbital laser, or even an assault cannon? Because, admit it, any critter that might be really intimidating to a stone age metahuman wouldn't be too intimidating after a lethal case of lead poisoning. And they can't be that powerful--the dragons all got through the last Age without too much trouble, as did all of metahumanity, so either:
A) They aren't as badass as they've been made out to be
OR!
B) They are that badass, but their abilities/numbers are limited.

Because, honestly, the way I've been hearing about these things, they sound like a merging of the Predator aliens, the hunger of the Xenomorphs, and the general undefeatability and numbers of the Borg, all rolled into one big Nasty.

(on that note, would someone terribly mind giving those of us who don't have hard data on the Horrors some bones (i.e. some stuff from the sourcebooks) so we have something to chew on? I've looked in all the local stores and nobody has any copies, and the few I've found on eBay have the shipping so high that I'd rather save the money for other things)
fistandantilus4.0
This is precisely why I mentioned to Dionysus that he could start another thread for horror questions. This is a very different topic, and could still have some ground for discussion, and I don't want the horrors to take this thread over to. smile.gif

So, if anyone has horror questions, please start another thread.
dionysus
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
This is precisely why I mentioned to Dionysus that he could start another thread for horror questions. This is a very different topic, and could still have some ground for discussion, and I don't want the horrors to take this thread over to.  smile.gif

So, if anyone has horror questions, please start another thread.

dead.gif Sorry, posted without thinking. My apologies.
Tomothy
The way I imagined a Dragon Technomancer is one whose resonance replaces his magic. I don't think it should ever be possible to have both magic and resonance, even for a Dragon. But I would love the idea of a Dragon in the machine.
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