Full Version: Autorevolver
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| Do autorevolvers have a jamming problem too? |
No. DBA does not know what he is talking about.
Yes they can jamb. Like the chauchat(Raygun you knew this was coming), in perfect condicitons it is fine but with more working parks you have more things to screw up. They found with the Fosbery this happened in the trenches of WW1. The dirt and grime got into everything and the open nature of a revolver as opposed to a browning semi-auto just suck it in.
On another gun route, I was playing F.E.A.R. again the other day, and was thinking of a gun somewhat along the line of the Penetrator, but instead of launching spikes, which would be fun in itself, it would fire barrett type .50 cal rounds.
In SR the barrett is a big gun, like it is in real life, but would it be possible, given the tech of SR4 to make it a shorter barrel, but decrease its recoil by adding a foregrip, shoulder stock reinforcement and, I dunno a rating 3-4 type gas vent?
Kinda cheestastic, but in this case, I'm thinking more of an intellectual exercise rather than trying to fit it in a game.
In SR the barrett is a big gun, like it is in real life, but would it be possible, given the tech of SR4 to make it a shorter barrel, but decrease its recoil by adding a foregrip, shoulder stock reinforcement and, I dunno a rating 3-4 type gas vent?
Kinda cheestastic, but in this case, I'm thinking more of an intellectual exercise rather than trying to fit it in a game.
Is the penetrator fully automatic? If not there's no reason for a Gas Vent. Just talk your GM into letting you use a Jesus Pistol
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 27 2006, 11:48 PM) |
| Is the penetrator fully automatic? If not there's no reason for a Gas Vent. Just talk your GM into letting you use a Jesus Pistol |
HOLY MOTHER OF FUCKER!
A .50 BMG round in a PISTOL?! I'm no gun expert, but I've heard that's DEADLY stuff. Probably a single shot weapon only there, but you wouldn't need more than that to turn someone into spraypaint...
Makes me think of that pistol in Fallout 2 that had stats as a sniper rifle and hit like a brick in close range...pretty crazy
Heh, oddly that's somewhere around the original idea that made me start the thread. I was looking up on the net to see if I could find a real world equivalent of that pistol in fallout 2 that you could cut down from an assault rifle, then got sidetracked by autorevolvers 
And the world goes round and round.
And the world goes round and round.
I suppsed the only thing left is a walking cane that shoot tanks rounds
| QUOTE (eralston) |
| I suppsed the only thing left is a walking cane that shoot tanks rounds |
Oh come now, don't be foolish. Have you completely forgotten about the 16" naval gun hidden inside a cigarette? That's, like, the most basic piece of equipment you can have!
Yeah, my titanium teeth lacing were put in by a disreputable street dentist. I suppose I'll spend the rest of my days supporting the apple sauce industry
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Is the penetrator fully automatic? If not there's no reason for a Gas Vent. Just talk your GM into letting you use a Jesus Pistol |
...ooohh nice big bang bang. My Merc Gracie coulda stood her ground firing it.
dumbest gun I've ever seen? .50 magnum with a 2 inch barrel. Just happily sitting on the hself in my favorite gun store. I mean jeez, it's great if you're mugged by a hump backed whale but otherwise?
Well, you'll kill the mugger...and the old woman across the street...and the drivers of those cars...
Or you'll miss, and you won't be able to get off a second shot because the first one broke your wrist.
I saw a man in my very town murdered by a humpback whale. You need to be ready for when they come at you, 'cause they will.
~J
~J
Damn those Krill eating bastards!
sure, they gotta pay for the krill somehow.
Seriously, my S&W give my sinus' a pain when I fire magums rounds and that's just .357. I don'tr want to think what a .50 would feel like.
Seriously, my S&W give my sinus' a pain when I fire magums rounds and that's just .357. I don'tr want to think what a .50 would feel like.
Ooo, love the quote: "for when the .500 S&W is just not enough".
Aheh.
The .500 S&W is intended for either target shooting, or as a sidearm for big game hunting (like pachyderms). Even then, it's still a novelty.
This is an ED-compensation gun. Pure and simple.
There's absolutely nothing practical about killing someone, overpenetrating enough to punch a hole through a car or several other people, and shattering your wrist.
Edit: And don't talk to me about barrel-climb.
Aheh.
The .500 S&W is intended for either target shooting, or as a sidearm for big game hunting (like pachyderms). Even then, it's still a novelty.
This is an ED-compensation gun. Pure and simple.
There's absolutely nothing practical about killing someone, overpenetrating enough to punch a hole through a car or several other people, and shattering your wrist.
Edit: And don't talk to me about barrel-climb.
The .357 was big with game hunters like T Roosevelt as a weapon of last resort. I find it wonderfully accurate when loaded with .38 specials. BUT a .50 magnum with a way short barrel? Sure what you hit, you vaporize but I wouldn't want to bet my life of the accuracy.
Or being able to make a follow-up shot.
Hey, Snow Fox, how've things been while I've been gone (I've GOT to stop these year-long absences)?
Hey, Snow Fox, how've things been while I've been gone (I've GOT to stop these year-long absences)?
| QUOTE (eralston) |
| Makes me think of that pistol in Fallout 2 that had stats as a sniper rifle and hit like a brick in close range...pretty crazy |
Yeah, .223 pistol, 5 round clip. I was playing Fallout 2 this afternoon.
So THATS over kill. You could park small cars in the tempary cavity that would leave.
To Hell with the temporary cavity - The permanent one will still be a missing chunk.
<--- Imagines this thing loaded with MOD-0 rounds...
<--- Imagines this thing loaded with MOD-0 rounds...
You can get several handgun calibers which would be more lethal from a pistol than .223 Remington. With the right ammunition, anything from around .454 Casull level on up. [I figured you weren't referring to it with the temporary cavity thing, but I thought I'd mention that, what with all the times the .223 Pistol has come up in various places as some kind of überweapon.]
I suppose if you're willing to trade in concealability, ease of handling and the possibility of follow-up shots for lethality, a .50 BMG handgun would make perfect sense.
I suppose if you're willing to trade in concealability, ease of handling and the possibility of follow-up shots for lethality, a .50 BMG handgun would make perfect sense.
Heheh, chunky salsa?
I was just noting what that gun he was talking about was.
I was just noting what that gun he was talking about was.
Sorry, my brain was still on that .50 cal monstrosity.
A pistol chambered in .223 (which is a 5.56x45mm NATO, btw) isn't that impressive, though the wound profile would possibly be a gross sight.
A pistol chambered in .223 (which is a 5.56x45mm NATO, btw) isn't that impressive, though the wound profile would possibly be a gross sight.
.223, what am I missing? That's just a hair larger than a target round and smaller than the .25 beretta I carry as a hold out.
Oh I was talking chunky salsa via the .50 BMG too... Well, that and crushed wrists. I get strange bruises after 25 rounds from my .25 .
While im no gun nut, the .223 is a good bit longer then a .25 beretta. It being a rifle round and all.
While im no gun nut, the .223 is a good bit longer then a .25 beretta. It being a rifle round and all.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| .223, what am I missing? That's just a hair larger than a target round and smaller than the .25 beretta I carry as a hold out. |
What you're missing is... well, take a look at this. The one on the left is a .22LR. Second from the right is a .223. Caliber isn't everything.
(From left to right, that's: .22LR, 9mm (9x19), .40 S&W, .45ACP, .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO), and .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO). And a AA battery for scale.)
ah, more charge. like the most noticable difference between a .38 and .38 special.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| dumbest gun I've ever seen? .50 magnum with a 2 inch barrel. Just happily sitting on the hself in my favorite gun store. I mean jeez, it's great if you're mugged by a hump backed whale but otherwise? |
Well, it really only has one semi-practical use: it's good in grizzly country. Relatively lightweight and easier to carry around than a rifle or shotgun. Muzzle blast will likely scare away most animals and can draw attention of help. Though I think a .454 Casull would work just as well and would be more versatile.
| QUOTE |
| The .357 was big with game hunters like T Roosevelt as a weapon of last resort. |
Not Teddy, anyway. He died 16 years before Smith & Wesson introduced the .357 Magnum.
| QUOTE |
| I find it wonderfully accurate when loaded with .38 specials. BUT a .50 magnum with a way short barrel? Sure what you hit, you vaporize but I wouldn't want to bet my life of the accuracy. |
The first shot isn't going to be any different from any other handgun as far as accuracy is concerned. Like JC and Fire Hawk said, it's the precision of any follow-up shots you might need to take that's the problem.
I shot the 8" barrel S&W 500 not long after they came out. A friend of mine, who happens to be an FFL dealer, ordered one as soon as he heard about them (needless to say, he has since sold it). Anyway, there's no way around the fact that it makes for a lot of recoil. The slapping-around you get from the muzzle blast is substantial (everyone within a two mile radius ought to be able to figure out what happened, you're definitely going to feel it and after relatively few rounds it becomes a chore; from a short-barreled revolver that's only going to be worse), but even so, the recoil really is not as bad as people tend to make it out to be. I'd even venture to say that most .454 Casull revolvers with heavy loads are going to be perceived as being just as bad in the felt recoil department (higher pressure load, lighter gun). You may be likely to smash your wrist bones into paste after shooting these things every day for years, but you'd have to be pretty friggin' ignorant to hurt yourself with one shot, even with a .500 Mag.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| You can get several handgun calibers which would be more lethal from a pistol than .223 Remington. With the right ammunition, anything from around .454 Casull level on up. |
Jeez, I'd say anywhere from .40 S&W and up. I think as far as wounding capacity goes you're likely to get a similar end result from either inside of 50 meters. I think you'd get a much more destructive wound from any .454 Casull load over any .223 load. (But I'm sure you've done your research, so...
)| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| ah, more charge. like the most noticable difference between a .38 and .38 special. |
Oh, it would be a lot more noticeable than that. Comparing .25 ACP to .223 Remington is something like comparing a unicycle to a Corvette. They just don't do the same thing.
| QUOTE (Raygun) |
| (But I'm sure you've done your research, so... ) |
In this particular case, not really.
I think I got a bit carried away by how large a cavity you can get with a 62gr JHP at around 2500fps, forgetting about penetration. You're right in that you can probably get a larger permanent cavity beyond 8" with a .40 S&W than with the .223. Heck, you might have serious trouble getting beyond 8" with deforming .223s from such a short barrel, or else you get a wound cavity like this.
Btw, Would you be able to fire a barrett from a standing position? All the footage I've seen (history channel and the like) show it from prone. But would it be possible to cart it around firing from the hip ala Robocop, or if you gave it a foregrip, shortened the barrel and slapped a good gas vent on it, would it still knock a normal person on their butt if fired like a 'regular' shoulder arm? What about an orc/troll?
Sure, but you won't likely be standing after the first shot. It will -at the very least- stagger you, if not topple you over.
EDIT: Orks and trolls might have a better time of it.
There's footage of a shortish guy in a firing range (Raygun knows what I'm talking about) firing a round from a (I forget the caliber... .755?) T-Rex rifle.
EDIT: Orks and trolls might have a better time of it.
There's footage of a shortish guy in a firing range (Raygun knows what I'm talking about) firing a round from a (I forget the caliber... .755?) T-Rex rifle.
By far the most common description of the recoil from a Barrett is that it's like firing a 12-gauge Magnum. The main reason firing a Barrett from the hip doesn't really happen is that when you're talking about a rifle that weighs over 25 pounds, is sometimes bolt action, and going on 5 feet long, shoulder-firing like you would a smaller rifle is ungainly and impractical.
Stick with semiautomatic, chop down the barrel some, and make the brake even bigger, and sure, I could see firing this thing from the shoulder. I'm not going to say it's practical, just that it could be done.
Stick with semiautomatic, chop down the barrel some, and make the brake even bigger, and sure, I could see firing this thing from the shoulder. I'm not going to say it's practical, just that it could be done.
Like Shrike30 said, the recoil is not a problem when firing a Barrett from the shoulder. See this video, for example. There's also one video floating around of someone from the Barrett company firing a full magazine with one of their rifles standing unsupported, with no "staggering" whatsoever.
This is the clip I meant above (realplayer video). At the end of it, 5 rounds are fired with a bolt action M95, which has more felt recoil than the semi-automatic M82, without support, and while it clearly shoves his shoulders back a bit he has absolutely no trouble maintaining his balance.
| QUOTE (Fire Hawk) |
| Sure, but you won't likely be standing after the first shot. It will -at the very least- stagger you, if not topple you over. |
A good muzzle brake makes all the difference, as the video Aus posted shows. Remove that brake and it will become a lot more difficult to handle (about 140 fpe @ 20 fps; according to Barrett, the brake knocks recoil down by at least 40%).
| QUOTE |
| EDIT: Orks and trolls might have a better time of it. |
Orks I don't think would get much of a break, but according to previous calculations found elsewhere in this forum, trolls could likely use .50 BMG HMGs like we use assault rifles.
| QUOTE |
| There's footage of a shortish guy in a firing range (Raygun knows what I'm talking about) firing a round from a (I forget the caliber... .755?) T-Rex rifle. |
Transposed there. .577 T-Rex. If you mean the one with the little guy that falls down, he just had no friggin' idea what was going on. Probably never shot a rifle before in his life. There's another video from the same outfit (Accurate Reloading) of a guy firing a .700 Nitro Express, which is quite a bit more powerful. He takes it like a man.
.577 T-Rex: 750 grain solid @ 2400 fps = 9591 fpe
.700 NE: 1000 grain SP @ 2200 fps = 10746 fpe
.50 BMG: 660 grain FMJ @ 2910 fps = 12409 fpe
Thanks, Ray. In the T-Rex vid, I don't remember the guy falling down, exactly, but he did get knocked across the room, iirc.
.577, eh? I have a dyslexic memory, perhaps?
.577, eh? I have a dyslexic memory, perhaps?
A .7" bullet? What the hell do you hunt with a .700 NE? Banks?
Trolls.
In game effects, is a muzzle brake covered under the 'gas vent' tech? Would a 'gas vent 3 (or 4 or whatever)' be better than a current day muzzle brake, or are they entirely different concepts?
And, as I'm looking at some pics of earlier OICW type configs, I was wondering, could you take something like shortened barreled barrett and attach a submachinegun/assault rifle under it? Mostly a concept idea, but with the introduction of drones in SR I started to feel having some sorta anti-material gun is useful for a heavy run, or when you're doing one of those after-run meets in the middle of a burned out warzone
And, as I'm looking at some pics of earlier OICW type configs, I was wondering, could you take something like shortened barreled barrett and attach a submachinegun/assault rifle under it? Mostly a concept idea, but with the introduction of drones in SR I started to feel having some sorta anti-material gun is useful for a heavy run, or when you're doing one of those after-run meets in the middle of a burned out warzone
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| In game effects, is a muzzle brake covered under the 'gas vent' tech? Would a 'gas vent 3 (or 4 or whatever)' be better than a current day muzzle brake, or are they entirely different concepts? |
Yes, and depends. For example, no matter how brilliant your gas venting/compensation/muzzle brake system, IRL you cannot fire a 3-4 round burst with an assault rifle at long ranges with anywhere near the same accuracy as you'd get with a single shot -- direct comparison isn't really possible.
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| And, as I'm looking at some pics of earlier OICW type configs, I was wondering, could you take something like shortened barreled barrett and attach a submachinegun/assault rifle under it? Mostly a concept idea, but with the introduction of drones in SR I started to feel having some sorta anti-material gun is useful for a heavy run, or when you're doing one of those after-run meets in the middle of a burned out warzone |
I think you'd be much better off having an attached GL with HEDP grenades. That way you can use a full size assault rifle, if necessary, and still get away with half the size and weight.
The OICW was a somewhat i m p r a c t i c a l idea, given that the thing weighs more (IIRC) than a full-sized M16 with attached M203 40mm GL, under barrel.
There's no point in carrying a briefcase full of bricks that essentially does the same thing as a comparibly lightweight weapon; even an M4/M203 combination (IIRC they're compatible) will basicly do the same job, and it isn't as bulky as that overpriced monstrosity.
There's no point in carrying a briefcase full of bricks that essentially does the same thing as a comparibly lightweight weapon; even an M4/M203 combination (IIRC they're compatible) will basicly do the same job, and it isn't as bulky as that overpriced monstrosity.
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