I really love the idea of a Spirit/Ghost hunting adept.
Astral Perception, some mystic armor, a weapon focus and some assensing. Knowledge of Summoning/Banishing. Occult knowledges. Investigation skills, and contacts. Very tres chic.
Full Version: Give the sammies a little love...
I agree, There wouldn't be references to readable impressions if they shouldn't be used, but making the leap from impression to trackable aura is a bit much.
| QUOTE (Shadowmeet) |
| I really love the idea of a Spirit/Ghost hunting adept. Astral Perception, some mystic armor, a weapon focus and some assensing. Knowledge of Summoning/Banishing. Occult knowledges. Investigation skills, and contacts. Very tres chic. |
Who ya gonna call?
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| @X-Kalibur: @Shinobi Killfist: Completely valid points about going for the summoner of the spirit. Although not all security forces will have the conviction to go for an invisible enemy when somethign with a good attack skill is sending 5P blasts reduced by half armor at them, that's probably their best bet. I don't quite agree with taking the nerf bat to concealment, however. What you're suggesting is effectiely making it 1/3rd as effective. Concealment is usually fine, equivalent to a boost to the character's infiltration skill equal to the spirit's force, and in-keeping with the power possible from other service options. It only becomes a big deal when you're dealing with enemies with low dice pools. |
well yeah its a big nerf bat but if you have a problem with spirits and magic a nerf bat should be used. As I incoherently pointed out I don't have an issue yet with magic being too good. But if someone does nerf things.
Also yeah not all sec teams will target the mage, and those guys can get eaten by the spirit of doom. If the mage is the target well then its time for the sammie to shine and save the day. And if the mage is invisible well then lets hope the sec team has ultrasound goggles and if not well then flashbang the area you think the mage is to death.
probably get themselves to in that 10m radius, but hey they may be ok with enough armor on.
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| Whether it's stupid or not is debatable. Whether the RAW says concealment applies or not isn't. Without a house rule concealment does not apply to sensor tests. Out of curiosity, why are you complaining about the power of mages and then going out of your way to misinterpret rules in their favor? Assensing can't track touched objects. Concealment doesn't affect anything but perception tests. These are the rules. Changing them to favor mages is IMO silly. |
Concealment applies to all perception tests. When a rigger is in control, they roll sensors+perception for that test. Wether or not a test in which perception is rolled counts as a perception test, even if it has another name also, I think is completely open to debait.
I'm arguing this point for a number of reasons.
Firstly, Continuity. Concealment worked against sensors in 3rd edition, a fact that I've seen used in many runs.
Secondly, I don't see how drones could be completely unaffected by this power. If a normal character has all of the vision modes and ultrasound, they still get -force in dice on tests to see the subject. In that, it's established that the concealment power works against a range of electromagnetic frequencies (at-least normal through thermographic) and sound (ultrasound). With the exception of radar, there's little that the drone can have which it isn't already established that the concealment power works against. In the case of radar, it's just another electromagnetic frequency which concealment works against many of.
Thirdly, I actually quite like the idea of using spirits to hide from technological sensors. It reminds me slightly of the predator movie, when arnie crawls out of the water through the mud and the predator doesn't pick him up on his thermographic vision because of the thick mud covering.
Even without the concealment versus drones issue, however, I think that I have proven my point that mages aren't powerless against riggers in this edition.
Assensing and psycometry are a powerful and flavourful tool. By the RAW, a characer coming into contact with an object leaves an impression of their aura on that object. Also by the RAW, it takes 2 successes to identify an aura if you've seen it before. There's no changing of rules involved there, that's just one of the powers of magic. I did say that you got a lot for 15BP, didn't I?
@Shadowmeet: Adepts actually make some of the best people at assensing thanks to the Enhanced Perception power. Using it, it's not too much trouble to make a guy who rolls 15-16 dice for assensing. That's enough to on-average get the 5 successes required for the maximum level of detail, like details of all of the subjects implants and details and reasons for their emotional state. What you can get almost amounts to mind-reading.
| QUOTE |
| It reminds me slightly of the predator movie, when arnie crawls out of the water through the mud and the predator doesn't pick him up on his thermographic vision because of the thick mud covering. |
Because obviously Arnie was using the spirits of the mud to mask his body temperature.
| QUOTE |
| By the RAW, a characer coming into contact with an object leaves an impression of their aura on that object. |
It says you leave an impression. It doesn't ever mention the word aura. It's quite possible to leave an emotional impression with no tracable ties to who left it. If you choose to add trackability of auras to the word impression, that's obviously your choice to make, but it's most definitely a house rule.
How hard would it be to commit a crime, any crime, if anything you have ever touched can be used to track you/send a spirit after you? Bullet casing, doorknobs, the ground beneath your feet.
Seeing as this thread has been resurrected...
I'm in agreement with prior comments by Shadowmeet and Nim about Psychometry. You can't assense someones aura off anything someone has touched. The term impression means you can detect what a holder was feeling or doing (in an abstract sense) when they were in contact with the object. There is another thread about material components which is related to this. I think to leave anything like an astral signature on an object it would need to fulfil the criteria of a material link as well and as such it would need a strong association with the target.
On the OT... what was it? how to make Sams stand out in a game? Play to their strengths. If they can't do anything unique in the party then they have a problem. But it's exactly the same problem you might have if you had 3 faces, all of them competing over who got to shmooze Johnson, or three combat mages all trying to sling powerballs at the same time.
I'd also like to give my two yen on a spirits concealment power. I feel that the type of concealment should in some way reflect the spirit type. It's called concealment after all, not invisibility. So, say an Earth spirit might generate a cloud of dust or an air spirit might make clouds, or a water spirit might make fog, or a fire spirit might make smoke. These would all make it harder to spot the characters, but the guards would still probably notice the smoke or whathaveyou. Comments?
I'm in agreement with prior comments by Shadowmeet and Nim about Psychometry. You can't assense someones aura off anything someone has touched. The term impression means you can detect what a holder was feeling or doing (in an abstract sense) when they were in contact with the object. There is another thread about material components which is related to this. I think to leave anything like an astral signature on an object it would need to fulfil the criteria of a material link as well and as such it would need a strong association with the target.
On the OT... what was it? how to make Sams stand out in a game? Play to their strengths. If they can't do anything unique in the party then they have a problem. But it's exactly the same problem you might have if you had 3 faces, all of them competing over who got to shmooze Johnson, or three combat mages all trying to sling powerballs at the same time.
I'd also like to give my two yen on a spirits concealment power. I feel that the type of concealment should in some way reflect the spirit type. It's called concealment after all, not invisibility. So, say an Earth spirit might generate a cloud of dust or an air spirit might make clouds, or a water spirit might make fog, or a fire spirit might make smoke. These would all make it harder to spot the characters, but the guards would still probably notice the smoke or whathaveyou. Comments?
On the topic, sams rock fairly hard. They have a harder time against spirits yes, but I haven't run into a spirit yet that couldn't have its day ruined by a monowhip or a rocket. Sams have the skills. Sams have the ware. Sams have pure coolness. Plenty of people have done the math typey breakdowns, but I feel that above all, adepts and sams are differentiated by their flavor.
Of course I play a mage who most people think is a sam.
Of course I play a mage who most people think is a sam.
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