Well, I've been voicing some displeasure on the game's forum, and checked about 3 or 4 pages in on each board here at DS and didn't see it even mentioned so...I figured I'd post.

Just wanting to find out if you guys were as disappointed as me.

Explosions of outrage on DSF are like rain showers in Seattle. If there isn't one today and there wasn't one yesterday then chances are good your aren't where you think you are.

Oddly enough nearly a 1/3 of people that answered the poll here said they'd either be buying it or would consider it. Given the system requirements for the game (Vista or Xbox360) and the market they seem to be targeting that strikes me as higher than you'd expect given the bile spewed.

Going back to some research done by Wizards of the Coast about 6 years ago there was at that time surprisingly little overlap, something like 35%, between people that purchased computer games regularly and people that played pen and paper RPGs regularly. It is probably a little higher now, maybe moreso among people that are focused on a futuristic set game. But still given that the number of 30% on a pen and paper board is pretty good.

that first d&d movie was out there, way out there.

but that second one was closer to the source (yep they have made two), including being able to id some of the spells used, and some of the risks of using them.

still, given that the leader of the dev team for this game have steated that he more or less hated SR, i dont think any game after this will be closer to the source.

Please provide a relevant quote. I don't recall that being said -- if you're talking about Mitch's first blog entry from a few months back, he basically said "It's damned hard to make a game based on an existing universe that pleases fans of the universe and is accessible to new gamers."

http://shadowrun.com/behindthescenes/teamb...5-8-06_blog.htm

With all the potential problems with the Microsoft Shadowrun computer game, I don't think it's fair to make up fictions about what the developers thing.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- I don't agree with Mitch, and while I understand what he's trying to say and do, I think Microsoft took the idea way too far. I just believe there's enough damning evidence/feelings against this project without saying things like "Mitch said he basically hates SR." And, of course, if I've missed Mitch saying that he hates SR, which is possible, as I'm not paying much attention to the computer game, I'll totally retract this.

I'd argue that. I know a not that small chunk of people who read the novels but persistently keep refusing to play the game. Granted most of them are gamers. They just arent runners. Kinda comes to the same though. None of them would consider SR an FPS as far as I can tell.
I agree about the console part though. I doubt these have much of a fan base beyond the PnP crowd.

Personally, I think the real best case scenario is that an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame spurs Mitch into a rampage through the FASA Interactive and Microsoft offices a la the ending of Sword of Doom, but unlike Ryonosuke, Mitch actually makes it to Bill Gates, then heats up his sword to forging temperature before turning it on himself.

I agree on the worst case scenario, though.

To give someone else even an outside chance to shine where they choked? Congratulations, that unlikely just got you nominated for a DSF Understatement of the Month Award.

Yeah... Can anyone remember a case of Microsoft actually selling the rights to something? (not saying it didn't happen, but I just can't think of it)

Besides, that's hardly a MS-only approach to doing business - most companies will sit on intellectual property they own forever, unless they get into financial difficulty, or it's property they literally can't do anything with. (because it involves a completely different medium than the one they work in)

remember, its a microsoft made forum, it works best (if at all) in IE...

and yes, i see that i was out of line claiming that mitch had said he hated SR.

did a bit of searching and the closest i came was patrick, the concept art lead...

and he only had a problem with the original mix of cyberpunk and "tolkien".

sorry

I happen to love the Genesis incarnation of Shadowrun, thank you very much. Still own it and even play it on occassion. Hell, its what got me into Shadowrun in the first place.

Speaking of baseless assumptions *cough*. However, the worst move they made was posting that they don't care if SR fans are going to boycott/flame/whatever. What was quite possibly their best target audience, and they fired the predator themselves at it.

I hope I win!

But yeah my "best case" is me daring to dream a little dream, kind of like my hopes that Black Isle Studios will spontanously reform and interplay will give them the rights to fallout and a lifetime subscription to hustler.

Interplay no longer has the rights to Fallout, Bethesda does, and is currently working on Fallout 3.

The must have implemented that Troublemaker Firewall code finally.

I'd say that is startlingly accuracte functionality.

Sorry, but I really have to rant now.

Personnally, I think this blog entry is complete and utter bullshit. Its just corporate rhetoric to justify them slapping the liscense on an already halfway finished game and then doing a half-assed job of trying to make that halfway finished game fit the liscense without doing a complete re-write from the ground up, which is really what they should have done from the beginning.

Mitch is full of shit and a corporate stooge.

If the game was adaquately planned from the beginning it totally could have been made faithful in spirit to the source material.

His quote above is absolute CRAP.

Look at what the Baldur's Gate series or the SSI Gold Box series did for D&D. Look what KOTOR and KOTOR2 did for Star Wars.

Jeez!! Look what Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" films did for Tolkein.

This crap about Shadowrun having baggage....*Pfffttt* Its one thing to plan a game based on an IP (Intellectual Property, for those of you new to the discussion) and making the best possible attempt to remain true to the spirit of the IP. Its something entirely different to slap a liscense name on a product that bares little to no resemblence to the IP at all.

Look at Neverwinter Nights. BIOWARE took their time, persevered and remaind true to the spirit of the 3.0 D&D Liscense. Did they get EVERYTHING in the game they wanted? No...not hardly...the game never would have been finished. Were hard choices made on what to impliment and what to leave out? You bet. But THAT game has sold over 2 million units and has a hardcore dedicated cummunity that will continue to support that franchise for years to come.

All of the examples above remained true to the IP's of their perspective liscenses. Did some things have to be changed for the sake of developement deadlines, budgets, or effective story telling....sure. But they all remained loyal to the spirit of their IP's. They all were massively successful, not just because they were enjoyed by their built in core audiences, but also because word of mouth travels fast. I can't tell you how many new D&D players came about due to the success of the Baldur's Gate series or NWN, or how many of my friends had never read or heard of Tolkein until they saw the movies and became die hard fans as a result.

Mitch, as far as I'm concerned, is full of shit. All that's required to make the Shadowrun world more accessible to new gamers is to promote it. Make a game that's faithful to the source material and then promote it. Advertise it. Get the word out. This is Mircosoft we're talking about here. It ain't like they don't have 20 billion in loose change in the bank and can't affort to spend 5 or 10 million in advertisement for the next HOT thing. And as far as Shadowrun's first incarnation being a FPS goes....I think its sad that the gaming industry is filled with dumbass publishers and developers who are only interested in the short term sale numbers driven by the "Flavor of the Month" instead of persevering and putting out a quality product that has longevity and has potential to generate higher sales and profits over the long haul.

M$ "has chosen...poorly". So, Mitch, if yer reading....reap the whirlwind.

That just isn't the case at all. FASA Interactive is a single game at a time development house, owned by Microsoft. Effectively a subsiduary. They work exclusively with the properties the were given way back when in the spinout from FASA. They have built this game up from the ground.

When they started building it some time back they decided that:
1) They wanted to make the SR game a squad FPS game.
2) That they were going to make the computer game in issolation from other SR incarnations.

Given that there really isn't much of a tie between the pen and paper and the computer game anyway, since there is no legal links, I'm not surprised at all that it isn't designed to promote the pen and paper. It makes logical sense. It's designed to be a fun game to play, not a promotional tool for somebody else's product (who isn't likely to cough up enough cash for that purpose).

Keep in mind that when they started development on this game Fanpro hadn't yet kicked off even privately development of 4th edition. So what were they going to promote? A game that was going to be coming on 8 years old when they finally shipped? Even Wizkids' recent novels came out that weren't promoting 4th edition, but instead a product that is already dead. Tell me that didn't look silly. Now imagine that you are signing of on a multi-million dollar budget and risking doing that for someone else's product. And not getting paid for it.

Then try sliding that onto you resume, which you should be printing off and sending out since you'll very likely to be looking for a new job right shortly.

Also remember that because of the lack of a legal connection between the two you are going to have poor communication, if any at all, about intentions. It would be like a Shadowrun player trying to create a longterm campaign that remained fully metaplot compliant. We all know how that typically works out in the end.

Futhermore the game is, inspite of all the ranting and raving, actually is based in spirit on SR. It sure as hell isn't canon compliant, and it doesn't cover all of the pen and paper Shadowrun world, which is huge, or even the full lifecycle of a runner/run. But that's something entirely different than basing on the spirit of SR.


P.S. You want to curse someone? If you must, curse FASA for spinning the computer game rights out without ties in place to keep the two mediums in sync.

I don't know. Why not ask someone at the Atlantean Foundation?

It's combat between two teams/sides/groups for infiltrating and obtaining a target item or denying the attempt.

I'm sorry, but you can't convince me that FASA Interactive started this game from the ground up. No way.

I hear what yer saying and I know its "the official" line....but, that's what they want you to think. I still call bullshit on Mitch. There are other game developers affiliated with Microsoft. It is my firm belief that this was a game already halfway through production with another developer working with Microsoft and it was passed to FASA once they released their Mechwarrior 4 complilation in 2004, to see what they could work up for the game based on their Shadowrun Liscense in an attempt to salvage it. This is the best they could do with the game without doing a complete re-write. FASA Interactive made the successful SEGA game, so there is absolutely NO excuse for them not remaining true to the Shadowrun liscense and canon other than this POS was forced on them.

I don't really have any legitimate gripes regarding the fact that they chose to leave the game a squad based shooter, other than Online Only FPS games are not my game of choice.

BUT....why have a liscense and not respect the IP of that liscense. Either they're just dumb, or they had no choice.

I'm not saying that they haven't put effort into the product. It takes a herculean amount of man hours to code and test that stuff, so I understand and respect the physical and mental effort that goes into producing any game...but....they totaly should have re-written the game from the ground up to more accurately reflect the game world, FPS or not.

What do they have to gain by distancing themselves from the canon of the PnP game and the novels? How is that going to draw in more players? Why alienate an already loyal fanbase?

Just doesn't make sense unless an incomplete game was already forced on them to salvage and their jobs depend on their silence.

The Genesis/Mega Drive game? It was developed by BlueSky Software.

The first Mechwarrior PC game came out in 1989, FASA was active from 1981 to 2001 and the Sega Shadowrun came out in 1994. Does that just about cover it? (mechwarrior 2 was 1995)

firefox user, so i cant read that one

I don't know who Piett is. He's the guy that made the statement.

unfortunately, it really doesn't. FASA Interactive has always been a seperate entity from the guys that make/own FASA's RPGs and other properties, whether it's FASA or WizKids or FanPro or LRG or whover. FASA Interactive started out as a seperate corporation from FASA, albeit one that was (i believe) run by the same people as FASA. i don't recall when FASA Interactive started up, though--probably before 1994, though, so they'd have been around when the Sega game was made.