...on a more serious tone and back to the topic, I have misgivings on awakend characters taking the Sennsitive System quality. Yeah, I feel it's a bit of a freebee and I could "engineer" a scenario to make it come into play, but it most likely would end up pissing off the player and that simply is no good. I am more in the camp of "suggesting" that the character look other negative qualities that actually work into the character backstory at Chargen.

I have one adept (Da Brat) who has this flaw, but she also started with some cyber as well (senseware) that was implanted without her consent (or the knowledge that she was awakened at the time).

My other adepts, Kyoto Kid, Hurricane Hannah, Medea Blitz, and Babydoll do not have this quality.

i don't think a character who takes SS and then later gets some unwanted cyber due to a GM plot twist has much right to complain. it's a flaw; if they didn't want the downside, they shouldn't have taken it.

i'm currently working on some rules that will allow doctors to implant cyberware in order to make trauma surgery tests easier. basically, if a patient is shot to hell, doctors can replace body parts piecemeal--a chunk of bone here, a muscle there, a kidney over yonder, etcetera. basically, trading in essence (generally in very small amounts, say 0.01E per -1TN) to make saving the patient's life easier. i think such rules will doubly make SS something to think twice about before taking.

Unwanted cyber is one of the nasty things short of death that can happen to a character who falls into the wrong hands. As a consequence of player stupidity or the grim and gritty game world, it sucks (even if you don't have that flaw), but it is part of the game.

I think the GM is a cheap bully, though, if he intentionally sets out to give a character unwanted cyberware, just because the character has a flaw. Flaws should come into play, but if unfair GM fiat is the only way to do so, you are better off telling the player not to take that flaw in your game for an awakened character.

Also, if it is enough cyber that the sensitive system flaw even comes into play (over 0.5 base essense cost), then you are really crippling the character - that's two points of magic gone, and in SR4 that is a HUGE hit to the character's ability to function.

well, i'm not talking about railroading, here. but if the character ends up captured, or under the care of an unsavory street doc--or even if the GM manipulates things such that capture or unsavory doctoring are likely outcomes--i think the GM who doesn't take advantage of the situation is being too soft. in which case, yeah, it really would have been better for the player to have chosen a different flaw. i'm not saying the GM has carte blanche to burn out your character's magic with unwanted implants, but there should be a point or so of cyberware in the future of anyone who takes the flaw. because, like i said, it's a flaw. if you take it, you're signing up for the baggage it entails. flaws aren't just there to look pretty on the character sheet. the player should basically assume that at some point during the game, his character is going to get some cyberware.

and unwanted cyber is not one of the worst things that can happen to a character. it's not like you're getting a cybernetic block of lead installed; you're getting a useful implant that adds to and expands your abilities. the value it adds may not seem worth the price you pay in magic, but cheer up--there should be geas rules available soon.

Don't cortex bombs take up 0.0 essense?

So hey, it's not all bad, chummer.


And about cyberware being useful, remember...

You can always install about 11 Headware Radios. Most. Useless. Cyber. Ever. Not two-way comm radios, radios. As in, "Tune into country music" radios.

Insta-burnout. Much cheaper than drug therapy.

I'm contemplating switching to White Wolf's flaw system for nWoD. Under that system you get no build point bonuses for a flaw. Instead you get bonus XP when that flaw crops up in play and actually hampers you or your team.

what? even in SR4, -2 magic isn't crippling. you're losing, on average, less than one hit per roll. in SR3, -2 magic will knock your spell pool down by a point, which is also a big hit.

-1 spell pool is a minor hit compared to -2 to all rolls. You may say it's minor, but how many dedicated casters do you see with 2 essence worth of cyber/bioware? I know I don't see any, because it's a much bigger hit then it looks like. You're not only losing .66 hits you're losing:

• 2 dice that can explode when edge is used
• 2 failurese that can be rerolled with edge
• 2 from your "safe" casting cap
• 4 from your total casting cap
• a lower chance of glitching

...while magic attribute loss hamstrings mages, there are ways (Geasa, Foci) to compensate. It's Adepts who really get reamed since the powers they have (and level cap) are directly related to their magic attribute. You lose MA and you lose access to one or more of your powers, period.

You can't cast a spell higher than twice your magic rating. If you have a magic of 6 your highest available force is 12. If you have a magic of 4 your highest available force is 8. Every point of magic is two lower on your cap.

The character isn't crippled, but he;s no longer as good at being a straight caster as he could have been. Nowhere near as good if he's a nuker, where the force of a spell is very important, as is the ability to soak drain.

KK: Geasa don't exist in SR4 yet, but hwen they do they'll be available to adepts also. Of course, saddling yourself with geasa can be a horrible idea if the GM is the type to make them matter, or a great idea otherwise.

oh, force. i thought you meant dice.

the fact that he's not crippled is basically my only point, here. he's not as good at magic as he used to be--that doesn't make him crippled. not by a long shot. that means that unwanted cyberware is a perfectly legitimate GM response to a cyberless awakened character with SS.

True, but I'd rather just say no to the quality then have the guy wake up one day with 2 less magic. Maybe once Street Magic brings back geasa, but definitely not until then.

that's his call. he's the one that chose the flaw, he's the one that should be dealing with it. if you think it'd disrupt your game, okay, you're thinking ahead; go ahead and disallow it. but it really shouldn't disrupt the game, because the player ought to be well aware of what he's getting into when he takes the flaw.

I would dispute that the player "knows what he's getting into when he takes the flaw", unless he knows that non-consensual cyberware installations are a regular part of the game. The flaw is not really "you get screwed when your cyber-avoiding character inevitably gets cybered against his will." It's more of a "you get some much-needed build points for your character, at the expense of limiting some possible future options for that character."

I have no problem with someone taking a flaw that fits their character concept (combat paralysis for a pacifist face, incompetence in a technical skill or two for a technophobic shaman from the NAN, uncouth for the troll muscle, etc.). A flaw should fit your character concept, just like skills, Attributes, and other stats do.

How does Sensitive System fit into a character concept? Even for a cyber character(where SS is a no-shit flaw), how does it fit in? Really?

You know, just like some people are just born rich and smart and pretty, there's nothing wrong rules wise with an Awakened PC with Sensitive System, even if it never comes into play. If the GM wants to maintain "game balance", he is welcomed to House Rule it so. But otherwise, "free BP" it is.

Heck, I can even come up with a char concept with that:

Bakc when I was young, a kid in class got himself a datajack. Soon all the cool kids'd got one. I made my mom promise me one for birthday. But the doc said I was extremely sensitive to implants and advised my mom not to go ahead with the op. Some time before my brthday, I began to do things like Karl did. When mom got to know, she explained that being able to be like Karl Kombatmage was way cooler than having a shinny datajack. So here I am without a single implant in my body talking to spirits.

While it might seem to be a freebie and metagaming for a mage to take sensitive system - it is obviously encouraged.

Just look at the templated Combat Mage on pg 90 of the book. Complete with Sensitive System.

If we made characters as un-tweaked as the sample characters I'd love to see Sensitive System.