heh, guess i should've logged in earlier =S would've saved you a lot of typing you could've used for something better instead =P

after i went to bed last night, i thought about it and decided that blade simply wasn't going to work conceptually with this game, so i was gonna withdraw him because i guessed (apparently correctly) that if your reason had more to do with the subject of avoiding flaws than it had to do with gremlins specifically, then the character concept wouldn't work (that is, the whole background basically needs to be scrapped... i'm sure numerically i could have made it work just fine).

so yeah, i'm gonna have to scrap blade. thinking about other possibilities, if i come up with something i'll let you know. (was considering a character who would have some doctor skills, but we'll see... was gonna try to include a first aid station (not kit) but alas those are not allowed due to chargen restrictions)

but i still say that since Blade in particular was not limited in all those ways the average kingsgate residents are (or at least, in his existence as a not-yet-statted up character he wasn't), those flaws would still have had an impact. i mean, if he doesn't have a reason not to install some second-hand wired reflexes from some other ganger who donates them posthumously, why wouldn't he? if he doesn't have a reason not to just pick up the commlink from some ganger we kill, why wouldn't he?

regardless, it's doubly a moot point, because blade is gone to the waiting room for a game where he can function as a concept works out, and i've already agreed to abide by your ruling (even if i happen to disagree with it).

Thwack!

DEAD HORSE: Ow.

Wham!

DEAD HORSE: Ow.

Biff!

DEAD HORSE: Okay, this is getting ol- OW!

BAM!

DEAD HORSE: OW! Bloody hell, man, lay off!

Bop!

DEAD HORSE: I give up.

No Surrender!

I know I already shot the idea down in another thread, but I've flip-flopped on the Locos recruit thing again. I had grand designs on doing something more elaborate for the "how did you become a member?" part of the background, but frankly, it wouldn't have amounted to anything major anyway, and I'd rather just write him in as a fringe recruit of the Locos who wants in the new outfit rather than split hairs over trifles. A backstory isn't worth a thing if it keeps you from posting, after all, and not really knowing anyone in the gang sounds like far more trouble than it's worth. Even if Ink and Cuervo aren't really bestest buddies starting out, at least a nodding acquaintance couldn't hurt.

EDIT: Okay, I got about everything finished but Cuervo's takes on his gangmates and other gangs in the areas hashed out and on the wiki. I've gone about a bazillion different variations of the stats now so feel free to ask me to change things if necessary. I didn't really write out a story since I just tried to answer the 30 questions as thoroughly as possible. Please look it over and tell me what if anything needs to get changed around for approval.

hmmm... ok, as relates to the medical shop being not allowed, i had hoped for the character to be able to perform surgery for at least limited cybernetic implants. (naturally this would be extremely limited based on the fact that the character would have little to no cyber available to implant... presumably only having whatever i decide to pay for at chargen but not have installed, i would assume? minor stuff like used cheap 'ware, basically).

anyways, point being, the valkyrie module. says it counts as a rating 4 medkit, and can do 'basic' surgery (it also says it counts as a medical shop, and medical shops can do implant surgery). but before i go and *assume* anything, i want to know what kind of basic surgery would you guys rule on it being? are we talking about trauma surgery only, or would it be possible to do implants that are extremely minor (for example, cybereyes and ears iirc are described as being something you can get done in a mall, datajacks, etc)? i'm kinda suspecting the former (since that seems more in line with what it would be designed for) but am still hoping for the latter

CrackerJack
H/M child prodigy Street Doc/Identity Thief. born/raised in kingsgate, got his hands on a good enough fake SIN to be able to sign up for a number of online courses (i assume there are some very non-picky medical schools in our miserable dystopian world who don't care if they never actually meet you or not). the SIN came with some reasonably high grades, so he was able to pay for it all with scholarships (and possibly government-subsidized student loans, if such a thing exists). His actual goal is basically mind control via nonmagical means (implants, drugs, BTL/P-fix, psychotropic IC, hypnotism, etc). recently the 'star uncovered his fake identity when he accidentally experimented on a non-SINless, so he's gone into hiding in the area of the barrens he knows best.

that's a rough outline. never comes out quite as good as i have it in my head, i'm afraid, but before i go further i want to know if this guy is likely to get thrown out entirely right off the bat. for clarification purposes, he is nowhere near achieving his goal, hasn't really found anything the corps haven't known for years (probably even decades in some cases) and is wanted for the kind of crime that the 'star can get great PR for actually doing their job.

ideally, if you could let me know by tomorrow (monday) night if it's even worth a longer background, that would be great. if not (and i do realise it's rather short notice to ask the three of you to get together, so if you didn't already have a time planned to get together, don't worry about it) i may or may not have more detail on tuesday anyways, since it's my day off this week.

This is off the top of my head and subject to later revision, but I would guess it is trauma surgery only. I will look into it more though.

It is unlikely that WR1, Vegas and I will be online at the same time tomorrow, different time zones and all, but we will try to get back to you ASAP.

My first instinct is to say that I would rather he was trained under a street doc that lost his licence, but I know that would kinda trash your concept and I don't want to do that. At least not until necessary.

Eyeless

Ok, I think we're ready to give you a chance to play on the wiki

I'll build up the pages for Drip this morning, they'll all be here under Drip



Sorry for the extended delay, but welcome aboard

Eeeeeexcellent.

I've been muckling through the IC and OOC threads, so I have an inkling of how busy you all are. Thanks for getting back to me as fast as you have; I can't wait to see what you make of Drip.

Eyeless

Standard wiki rules apply. You'll have to apply for membership before you can edit Drip's pages. If you have any questions or need any help just holler

Welcome aboard Eyeless!

Hmmm, what will Baby make of Drip....interesting...

Question: what lifestyle would you assign to actually living out of a car? I mean, it's a subcompact, but Drip doesn't take up too much space...

Heh, but I may have to rethink that anyway, might have to upgrade to a sedan. No way is he going to fit in there comfortably with a Doberman. And the gear shuffle continues...

actually, i was just gonna come back today and say... i've considered over the day, and i think i have a better background anyways, and it should fit your preference.

in particular, i was reading up on the NPCs earlier, and while i was at work today something jumped out at me: the Bone Man would be a very logical NPC for him to have learned from... the medical skills, that is. much as i think it would be kind of cool to be a houngan, there's all kinds of reasons not to (first off, the magician spot is covered. secondly, i don't really know a danged thing about voodoo.)

but yeah, after all that time learning from him, the young lad gets it into his head that he wants to be able to mind control people just like ye olde houngan can, but of course the young lad (who is probably going to need a name change now... i'm tempted to go with Spook) isn't a magician, so he has to use technology sound better? it also helps to introduce him to the gang, because i'm pretty sure there's at least 2-3 people in the gang who have the Bone Man as a contact already.

(and for the record, having thought about it today, i would've been fine with you trashing that first concept... it's a little bit cliche... or a lot cliche... and it's more like the kind of backstory you'd expect from a shadowrunner, not a ganger. it also unfortunately reads like it's a list of justifications for a bunch of numbers rather than a character concept, which is unfortunate because i've actually had variations of this character in mind for quite some time and just didn't initially see how it could fit into a gang campaign =S

(of course, the other advantage is that he doesn't have to worry about angering a mentor spirit in the event that he should happen to dikote a drone, which would be in the form of an AVS with the flying mod, and has sex with it )

Erm, wow. Didn't notice how good the Disarm Maneuver was before. Any chance I can still re-jigger my Martial Artist, Maneuvers and First impression Qualities one last chance before hitting the streets? I'm pretty sure I have everything else about where I want it to be. I mostly just want to swap "Watchful Guard" for "Disarm" and pick up the "Deals damage while disarming" quality.

All who have pages on the wiki now

Guys, please be aware that while we've cleared you to start putting up the CS's on the wiki, this does NOT mean that you are cleared for play quite yet. We do need to know when you're done "tweaking and posting" EVERYTHING on your sheets (CS, Background, Gear, Takes) and then we will do a final review and point count to ensure that everyone conforms to chargen rules and that points and gear and cash add up We all did it, and honestly it's about the most PAINLESS part of the process.

However, we will not clear you for play UNTIL you POST here that your character is ready for a stat review. So in otherwords Whipstitch feel free to tinker until you've said you're ready for review. At that point all tinkering stops till we either tell you to change something, explain something or outright approve you. Then any additional changes post approval have to be cleared again. Obviously we'd much prefer not to have to review characters multiple times

Thanks a million for your patience, I'm fairly certain we'll have you guys up and running soon. Thanks for ALL your hard work in getting your characters and the CS's on the wiki done. It's MUCH appreciated

Ok well Twiggs is ready for a stat review, no more tweaking, I promisezz.

Np, Vegas. I just wanted to get that thought about reconfiguring the Martial Arts qualities out there ASAP since I had already said I thought I had what I wanted. Thanks for the patience.

I just want everyone to be forewarned you will all hate me immensely when you realize that ALL (or nearly all) of you having the Disarm/Arnis De Mano combo will ultimately come back to bite you in the ass.

Don't say you weren't warned in advance.

Heh, you guys are so screwed.

Oops. Did I say that out loud?

Dantic

I would like you to put some more into Question 26, 27 and 29 in your questions.

26. is more about how Twigg thinks about the idea of joining a gang, especially since he hasn't done so before.

27. Isn't like takes, it is just how Twigg feels about people having relationships in the gang. As friends or lovers. How does he feel about someone in the gang having relations with those outside the gang. Does he care at all one way or the other

29. Take this question as if Twigg has been in the gang for a while. What do you think he will feel about being a Raven in a few months.


Don't worry, you won't be held to it if his attitude changes. We are supposed to update takes as we go anyway, so if his feelings towards the gang change in IC it is ok.

ok, so i'm gonna assume that the valkyrie doesn't allow more than trauma surgery then, since both of our readings seem to come up with it probably meaning just that.

would it be possible to 'rent' the use of a clinic from either The Bone Man (preferred) or Lossky Destry, do you think? particularly if i have an appropriate contact?

also, how do you feel about mundanes taking magical skills but only being able to use them for stuff mundanes could do normally anyways? (for example, could i take assensing but only use when somehow given the ability to astral perceive or if analysing an astral photo, or could i take astral combat usable only when enabled by crazy effects like awakened drugs and astral rifts and stuff? could i take banishing only usable for attacks of will? just checking where your stand is on this, not sure if i'd use it or not, but it's a definite possibility) =P

sorry to put you guys (and girl... woman? i dunno, whichever you prefer Vegas =P) to so much work...

Ok, added info per request.

As far as the Arnis De Mano thing goes, I do find it odd that the smart thing to do in a fight is to go on Full Parry and stare at the other guy until hopefully he tries hitting you.

Could be worse though, we could have all done what's truly the most logical option: Take the Unarmed Combat skill up to 2 w/ the Parry Specialization just so you can qualify for Krav Maga's Draw Weapon & Take Aim as Free Action benefits. Nothing like training Martial Arts just so you can shoot people in the face better.

I kinda wish Orks weren't quite so good. Cuervo'd make so much more sense as an Ork from a raw efficiency standpoint it's ridiculous.

Right up until the point where he decides to just draw a gun and shoot you in the face.

And if you think I'm not eagerly looking forward to the first time I do that to one of you...

I prefer the Arnis De Mano +1 DV to clubs, Sangre y Acero +1 die for Exotic Melee Weapons attack using a cyber-implant in an unusual location, combined with the penile implant so it can't be disarmed and nobody wants to face you unarmed.

Ya know, now that I'm thinking about the ability to pull out weapons like a Free Action, I have a question to ask: Do you guys handle forearm snap-blades as taking a Simple Action to ready just like any other melee weapon or do you think they should operate like a pistol's Hidden Arm Slide and can be readied with a Free Action? The snap-blade description says a trained muscle movement or wireless command is enough to ready them, and according to the combat chapter switching weapon modes via wireless is a Free Action, but it never really mentions snap-blades explicitly. I mean, I intend to use a pair of them regardless of the answer because I have a very clear vision of what Cuervo's fighting style would look like in my mind, but I'm just curious if there's any advantage to them other than likely being easier to conceal than a sword.

Also, how the heck is Called Shot to Disarm and the Disarm Maneuver supposed to work out when your opponent is using a weapon lanyard? The Lanyard says it gives a dicepool bonus of +4 for tests to determine whether or not weapon is knocked out of your grasp, but the Disarm maneuver just says that a net hit on your Parry test disarms your opponent while the Called Shot Disarm compares your modified DV to your opponent's strength to determine whether you disarmed them or not. Combine all this with the idea that apparently you can deal damage while parrying via the Arnis de Mano's damaging Disarm Maneuver bonus and the whole thing just starts hitting me as kinda poorly thought out.

I suppose at my own table I could just do the opposed attack test as normal and then just add in a 4 dice roll at the end and add the hits to the final outcome for the purposes of deciding whether they're disarmed or not, but the whole thing still seems rather flakey.


Anyway though, I don't think there's any changes I want to make to Cuervo from here out. Pick away at him.

1) actually, the *best* thing to do is take ambidexterity and the two weapon fighting maneuver that lets you both attack *and* full defense at the same time, with no reduction in either pool.

2) you don't need unarmed skill to have a martial art. in fact, for some of the martial arts, it makes more sense to have a weapon skill, and in the case of at least 2-3 i would say that weapon could very logically be a gun skill.

[edit] point 3 only applies for a ganger campaign, because strength is actually not useless in a ganger campaign =P [/edit]

3) orcs are actually pretty BP efficient, but i'm fairly certain unless you want agi, int, log, or cha at >4, >4, >4, and >3 respecitvelly, troll is more efficient (humans get 10 BP at a cost of 0 BP, giving the best % and decent gross value, plus leaving lots of BP for skills etc. dwarves get 40 BP for 25 BP in attributes, orcs get 50 BP for 20 BP, and trolls get 80 BP for 40 BP. also, a troll's extras are pretty danged awesome for a ganger campaign... running faster is handy, as is the reach bonus for melee combat! elves, otoh, are terribly inefficient, getting only 30 BPs in attributes for 30 BPs in cost)

heck, i was halfway tempted to make spook a troll (still am, in fact) but i think i might need the BPs for skills and i don't intend to give him the troll equivalent of 1 in str and bod =P

I already did that.


As far as Ork Vs. Troll goes, normally I'd just point out that Agility and Intuition are crappy attributes to have a lowered cap in, but in a gang campaign where cash is limited and where throwing down with fists is likely to be more viable than in most Shadowrun games (or at least that's what the wiki page led us to believe ), the troll's natural armor, thermographic vision, ridiculous strength and reach bonuses easily make up for well, everything. The Ork and Troll bonuses become particularly invaluable in a campaign where skills are subject to a lower than average cap but attributes are not. That's why I'm hoping that the GMs will look charitably on some of my more min-maxy design decisions, since I know exactly how I could have made a Cuervo a Human-Looking Ork with almost the exact same sheet (1 more Willpower, 1 more Body, 1 less Charisma) for 5 less bps than what the current sheet coughed up (and I know I could do a lot better than that sheet too). As it is he's not really better than anyone currently in the gang at anything, except maybe Infiltration (and then only by a point) and has a ridiculously bad mentor penalty in exchange for some serious magical potential if he ever manages to scrape together some Karma. But until then his current Powers are all NERPS for the most part.

Theme wise, I rather like him though-- It wasn't intentional, since I hadn't really read much about the other PC backgrounds when I started on the character, but in many ways Cuervo is the Anti-Legion. Both had hardass fathers, but they went in two vastly different directions once on their own and aren't likely to meet eachother halfway any time soon.

Well we'll see. Hopefully I can find more than a series of tiny snippets of time so I can actually work on getting all this stuff entered in the right format.


Nevermind; scraped together enough to get the larger car.

Still wondering what living out of your car can do to your lifestyle.

Oh yeah, and where do you guys usually troll around to look for headshots? My search-fu is weak when it comes to images.

I found a modeling agency on the web that wasn't a front for a Porn shop. I'll see if I can find it again.

Do they have any giant, heavy featured models of mixed African, Asian and Hispanic descent?

Not sure it'll find what I'm looking for at a modeling agency...

It had all kinds, but that is the only way I found a bunch of pics in one place. Hard thing was finding one of those sites that seemed legit and not having it turn out to be and escourt service.

So, any luck tracking down that URL?

Oh, and on a different note, is there any possibility of getting a Microscopic Vision mod for glasses/goggles? I notice that all the mods in the BBB are available both for eyes and for glasses, but not in Augmentation. I presume they forgot, as they didn't have a Gear section. Would it be fair to price the upgrade at 130 Y and Availability +4? That seems to fit the pattern made by the rest of the upgrades.

Eyeless - Sorry, can't run that search from work. I was serious when I said you get a lot of "other" sites when you type in modeling agency. I'll run it from home.

In Arsenal you can buy "Science Tools" as well as "Forensic Tools" in Kit, Shop and Facility sizes which presumably have microscopes and give dicepool bonuses to material analysis provided the Tools cover the appropriate discipline. Unfortunately, such items have an availability of 8.

Right, and I don't expect to be doing forensic analysis in DitG; it's too much like my actual job.

Eyeless

Living out of a car, no matter how large is gonna be a Squatter lifestyle (no running water, toilet etc).

Let us know if you need any help posting up a CS or whatever on the wiki. We're here to help!

Jaid

Talked to WR this afternoon for a few moments, having your character being able to much more than trauma work really isn't gonna fly. Removing bullets from people, stitching them up sure, no problem. Installing wired reflexes and doing all the technical surgery stuff to go with it... not so much. We're not making scaled down shadowrunners, we're making gangers for this game, most gangers aren't gonna know trauma surgery, let alone how to install datajacks and synaptic boosters.

I'd take issue with that primarily because of how highly available many types of 'ware are. Getting a datajack in the '70s is so easy they have idiots doing it in mall kiosks, the same idiots who pierce ears now. Cyberware has, by the '70s, been around for half a century; the internet isn't even that old, and we've already got spammer/phisher gangs in Sri Lanka and elsewhere, running scams in places without even running water. Sure, the syndicates and huge transnational gangs can do it better, but even two-bit nobodies in the middle of nowhere can learn to use technology to get what they want, especially if the technology is old, commonplace, and well-established (the Internet now, cybertech in 2070).

And are you seriously telling me that you need to be syndicate-level to be an organlegger or street doc? Tell that to the people who wake up in bathtubs full of ice even today, with our (decidedly primitive) medical technology. By 2070 I wouldn't be surprised if simple implant surgery couldn't be conducted out of a Biotech kit, let alone a shop (which should be capable of used/standard/alphaware cyber, and used/standard bioware, maybe even some of the lower-level gene stuff.

ah well. don't really see the current concept working without at least the skills (if not the equipment) to implant, and in any case the gang appears to have lots of people who can basically perform trauma surgery, so i'll scratch that concept since it's not really bringing anything new to the table.

and i can't really say i have anything else stuck in my head that's gonna fit as a ganger concept (i know *i* would have problems with someone bringing a drone army into a ganger campaign) so i guess i'll just bow out =S

Like the doc in Minority Report, doing an eye transplant in a dirty run down apartment? However, you also have to kind of look at game balance, and consider how invasive the ware is, cyberlimbs and datajacks are one thing, maybe even semi-automated. Skillwires, VCRs, Wired Reflexes, Bone Lacing, etc. would probably require at minimum one trained assistant.

Well the highly invasive 'ware would be a higher threshold, naturally, and then of course there's getting ahold of the 'ware itself that'd be a problem.

But a datajack? Cybereyes? Other things with an Availability of <=4? They've been around for decades; by 2070 they should practically install themselves, with injected nanopaste forming most of the delicate weave of mesh that makes up the jack, or the optic nerve surrogate that links to the occipital lobe. Again, we're talking decades of these things being on the common market; they're as much commodities as keyboards and mice are today, and about as hard to plug in.

I added a pic for Twiggs

www.newfaces.com

Wow, with a name like that I can see how you could mistake it as a front for a prostitution ring, or child slavery auction site.

After looking at a few pages of muscled male models for something that might have been Aziz, I have decided to go to the gym more.

Sheesh, now where do you find pictures of people who aren't hamming it up for the camera?

Eyeless,

Shoot me a PM on what you're looking for and I'll work my "Search-Fu" for you. I've been told I'm good

Heh, it only took me about 200 pics to find one that looked right for Baby.

Oh you are soooooo leaving yourself open.