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Oenone
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 11 2008, 05:54 PM) *
I will miss having someone that could carry the two mages around at a full run.


That's what drones and a good length of rope and/or duct tape are for!
DWC
It does seem like the only thing we're "missing" is a gigantic troll with a heavy weapon who scratches his forehead by shooting himself with a shotgun, and I'd argue that drones make better extra heavy fire support since they pack more recoil compensation, more armor, and can be transported in the trunk of a sedan.



Oenone
Just give the Troll smart articulation, an internal air tank and the double jointed quality. Then he'll fit almost anywhere.
He could even be named Phil the trunk troll.
DWC
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 11 2008, 01:17 PM) *
Just give the Troll smart articulation, an internal air tank and the double jointed quality. Then he'll fit almost anywhere.
He could even be named Phil the trunk troll.


...wow. He's like an angry, horned jack in the box.
cndblank
QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 10 2008, 02:08 PM) *
I have both versions of Dancer done, as well as Viper, the gothy black magician. The eco-activist Celtic druid, I only have the rough stats (everything but gear) and a general idea of his personality so far. I'll wait on Dancer for now, but here is Viper's sheet:

[ Spoiler ]




The runner's Companion has a new positive quality that you might be interested in for Viper.

Night Vision
Cost: 5 BP
Night Vision provides human characters with improved
night vision. This means human characters with this quality gain
the advantages of low-light vision (see Visibility Table, p. 140,
SR4). This quality is not cumulative with other forms of vision
enhancement and is incompatible with cyber- or bioware augmentation
or replacement, nor is it possible to combine with electronic
sensors and vision enhancements
Pg 100 RC

Get flare compensation on contact lens and she can just lift up her Glasses to spell someone.
Oenone
One quick question which people might be able to answer for me (I can't seem to find the answer in the BBB, but that could just be me being dense) but I was just wondering if anyone knows if Technomancers can actually see in AR without some kind of device? Or do they need to switch to VR to gain anything from the whole biological commlink thing.

Edit

QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 11 2008, 04:40 AM) *
I guess that leads to the question, do we have any shared gear?


If nothing else I hope we can get rides from people, otherwise poor Weaver will be spending a lot of time on buses.

Oh and she'll be happy to share her vacuum packing machine if anyone needs it. Erm not that there's going to be massive call for it unless we start playing with explosives or smuggling lots of ammo.
cndblank
Well I wil point out that we are all only as deep in the shadows as the least protected comlink.

We might want to have a standard comlink package so we can be fairly sure that no one will be listening. Flip side if the hackers are spending time keeping the software and comlinks up to date then they should be compensated for their time.

Also the question comes up as to how much the rest of the team will cover medical expenses and gear that is expended or destroyed. It is hardly fair if the rigger loses an expensive drone covering our hoops on an exit.

We could set a limit. Say half the payoff is split in to equal shares. The remaining half is used to cover expenses (Medical, ammo, team gear (stuff we have to have to perform the run)) and any thing left over after that is then split in equal shares.
Oenone
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 11 2008, 09:49 PM) *
Well I wil point out that we are all only as deep in the shadows as the least protected comlink.

We might want to have a standard comlink package so we can be fairly sure that no one will be listening. Flip side if the hackers are spending time keeping the software and comlinks up to date then they should be compensated for their time.


If you mean setting up a package after we're IC then sure, but for chargen I'm afraid I don't have the budget for anything fancy. But then again code sprites get encrypt and decrypt as standard so it seemed a waste spending nuyen on them. I don't know about anyone else but I plan on keeping some disposable commlinks around, for taking into meets and suchlike.

I assume TM's can still write normal software programs and update them, even if they do it differently?

(And I might be mistaken but from something mentioned earlier I think Gremish isn't using degredation rules? So that's not something we really need to worry about. Have included the quote I'm basing the assumption from below)

QUOTE (Gremish @ Aug 7 2008, 02:53 PM) *
I will be blunt, I dont have unwired with me right now, its across the state and I cannot get it for a bit. I have not read the book much so I dont know all the little things about it, so I cant really give you a good run down. I dont really see a need to have degration of the programs though, thats a bit harsh.

Tarantula
Since you guys were mentioning possibly still needing a large cybered troll, I wanted to say I'd be very keen on playing in this game, and would like to throw brick (or some variation thereof) into the ring for your consideration. I IMed Grimish and he said he was cool with it, but to check with all you guys first, so thats what I'm doing.

I've got the full build at home (which I'll post later on tonight) but basically, he is a very large, very tough, not so bright troll, who, while doesn't use heavy weapons, is considerably tough to take down. (Neighborhood of 13 body and 20+ armor) If you'd like that in the team, say so, or if you'd like a less extreme version, say so there too. Or if you guys don't want me at all frown.gif then say that and I"ll go.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 11 2008, 04:17 PM) *
(And I might be mistaken but from something mentioned earlier I think Gremish isn't using degredation rules? So that's not something we really need to worry about. Have included the quote I'm basing the assumption from below)


Up to GM interpretation, but I would assume, no. TMs do things differently, they use software to form programs out of the resonance of the matrix - not compile together statements in modern programming languages using good software practices. The rules say pretty clearly that TMs have to pick different versions of those skills that don't work with the normal ones - so I wouldn't imagine that they could write programs that normal people could execute or work with.
Oenone
If the GM is okay handling 10 I for one don't mind.

It's largely up to you how extreme you make the focus, personally I find making a character too specialized tends to make them a bit limited for things they can do. So I tend to avoid them, but if you enjoy that style of character then go for it. After all you're the one who'll be RP'ing him in the end!

Edit Below

@Blackhat - Heh my beginner knowledge of TM's shows again, will spend some time re-reading all the rules for them tomorrow. (Hardware is still the same regardless right? Because if not then the rule is entering the grounds of stupid)

I always figured a TM has a different process, but can still use it in the same way as a normal Hacker/Programmer could. But then I've been house ruling and handwaving a lot of matrix stuff in the offline game I run.
Gremish
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 08:28 AM) *
First draft of Malloc.I (name might change, but its the best I could come up with). Will flesh out the background (all 18 months of it), and reword the concept, a little later. Might rearrange some resources.
[ Spoiler ]



Looks fairly solid to me, I dont see any issues at first glance.
DWC
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 11 2008, 04:49 PM) *
Well I wil point out that we are all only as deep in the shadows as the least protected comlink.

We might want to have a standard comlink package so we can be fairly sure that no one will be listening. Flip side if the hackers are spending time keeping the software and comlinks up to date then they should be compensated for their time.

Also the question comes up as to how much the rest of the team will cover medical expenses and gear that is expended or destroyed. It is hardly fair if the rigger loses an expensive drone covering our hoops on an exit.

We could set a limit. Say half the payoff is split in to equal shares. The remaining half is used to cover expenses (Medical, ammo, team gear (stuff we have to have to perform the run)) and any thing left over after that is then split in equal shares.


Encryption software and pretty cheap. Getting everyone's firewall, system, and encrption maxed out should be fairly quick and painless. On the transportation front, I'd be amazed if we can't make sure half the party aren't taking the bus everywhere.

With multiple mages and a street doc on the team, medical expenses should be easy to keep under control. The other big stuff, I figure we can handle on a case by case basis.

As an aside, am I missing something or is the karma based character generation brutally overpowered if you're using it to make a mundane human?
Gremish
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 8 2008, 09:22 AM) *
Okay. I've done the background and contacts for Weaver. I've updated the character sheet to include the new and updated contacts info. Although that's mostly just a case of putting the numbers in for the Virtual Contact. I also tied the In Debt flaw into her contacts, to make it a bit more of a disadvantage to her.

[ Spoiler ]


Edited to adjust Virtual Contact.


Nice BG, like it =)
Gremish
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 09:55 AM) *
Did you get the impression that for virtual contacts you didn't have to additionally pay for the area of influence? I read it that way the first time, then looked back at it and thought you might, and now I'm not sure. Given that almost every matrix organization is going to be worldwide, that's a hefty 6 extra points to have to pay.


You dont have to pay it for me.
Gremish
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 8 2008, 01:27 PM) *
According to the RC, the three methods of character creation are balanced, but not equivalent. I'd prefer that Gremish picked one and everyone uses it, but I don't particularly care which one (had been going with the assumption of 400BP). If we have the option to pick which one we use, individually, I think things would get out of hand (and also require a lot more bookkeeping on the GMs part).

I'm not wholly opposed to the idea, though, if Gremish likes it. Starting out with some karma to spend would be great for a lot of character types, actually.

Edit: Major problem with using the priority or karma based options across the board is that not everyone has this book yet.


Your Edit is the key there. Not everyone has the book, though I do and honestly, I dont care what way we go about doing char creation I would almost prefer, for now at least since there are SO many players, we just use the basic 400 BP rules. We can discuss this further and if we all agree on another system thats fine, but we should try and all use the SAME system so it doesnt get out of control. With less players I wouldnt care if everyone used a different system.
Gremish
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 8 2008, 01:36 PM) *
Some Karma would be nice.

I mean spending 4 BP on a level 1 skill hurst when you could get a level 2 skill with 8 Karma. Same for specialization.

The easy option is let players turn in up to 25 to 50 build points for double that in Karma.


Sounds good to me, you can spend up to 35 BP for Karma. Makes it simple for me as well =)
Gremish
QUOTE (Ears @ Aug 8 2008, 04:51 PM) *
Yeah I finally get around to posting Clamps stats for public consumption:

[ Spoiler ]


He was a Streetdoc and just recently switched to 'running. So his terrible low combat skills are a design feature. Also he won't get any Cyberware for personal reasons. Comments?


As for alternative build systems I have no problem with any other - as long as someone explains the new one. I only have the BBB - but from what has been written so far I don't see any compelling - at least for all of us, some builds will be better with another system, some worse - reason to switch.


Looks Solid!
Gremish
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 8 2008, 11:10 PM) *
So here's the stats for Abe, wilderness adept.

[ Spoiler ]

I've made him up to survive on a very low tech base, no smartlink, no real need for a lot of electronic gear. He tends to use his commlink the way people today use smartphones, not as the all-encompassing life organizer that it is for most people in 2070. (Though he does have assorted sensors in case people run a tacsoft). Only uses AR when he actually needs it for something, otherwise keeps the glasses in a pocket. Makes him slightly less optimal as a build and all, but I like the concept.

*Edit: Waffling.


Looks good at first glance!
Oenone
QUOTE (DWC @ Aug 11 2008, 11:29 PM) *
Encryption software and pretty cheap. Getting everyone's firewall, system, and encrption maxed out should be fairly quick and painless. On the transportation front, I'd be amazed if we can't make sure half the party aren't taking the bus everywhere.

With multiple mages and a street doc on the team, medical expenses should be easy to keep under control. The other big stuff, I figure we can handle on a case by case basis.

As an aside, am I missing something or is the karma based character generation brutally overpowered if you're using it to make a mundane human?



Yeah it really is. Same with TM and Mages too. Although some types come out better than others. (But all are indeed better).

On the chargen options front I vote for 400BP. Because it's the system everyone will know best, we have a bunch of characters worked out to that already and it saves hassle with sending people the rule sets for the Karma system.

As for taking the bus, who said we'd be giving the bus back afterwards? biggrin.gif
Got to have some advantages with this many hacker types running around after all. wink.gif

@Gremish Cheers. smile.gif

Hmm I'll re-adjust the Virtual contact then, to remove the area bit. That is providing the idea of a Technomancer social club is okay?

Oh and if you decide the In debt quality is going to be a problem let me know and I'll have another BP build up as soon as possible!
Gremish
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 10 2008, 11:40 PM) *
Considering the level of hacking talent on the team...

Does the rest of the team need to spend cred on programs?

Perhaps we can all put in some cred and let the hacking talent create a library of software?

I realize we might not even be a team yet, but I thought we should ask the question now while we are in character creation.

I guess that leads to the question, do we have any shared gear?


As far as shared gear goes, I am going to have you each Pair up, it looks like Seatle will be our start location which is fine by me but I want each of you to find at least 1 other person to "start" with, you will know each other and have some special things for each of you in your city.

We have 4 Cities:

Seattle
Detroit
Hong Kong
Tokyo

With 9 players currently that means 2 in each with 1 with 3.

Start deciding who is starting where and who is with who please.
Oenone
Weaver is a Seattle girl (and only speaks English which rules Hong Kong and Tokyo right out for her).

Most likely characters to link her to would be either of the other two Matrix types. But I don't really have any preferences as to who she's paired up with! All the characters seem pretty cool so far.
Gremish
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 11 2008, 08:41 AM) *
Up to Gremish if he'd be okay with that. It might not be considered as much of a disadvantage if it was a PC AI (although, I would happily make it one, if that helps). The other thing would be that it would mean scrapping my lifestyle, and latching into yours, because an AI can only have one home node.


Thats fine with me. Make it work =)
BlackHat
I wrote Malloc.I to be from Tokyo, but can switch that up to someplace else if it helps even things out (although nobody else has been jumping up and down for Japan). Since he is uniquely suited to telecommuting, I could also pair up with pretty much anyone (except maybe the wilderness guy).

Updates coming shortly. I'll probably have to severely change up his resources (which might mean a change of address) to make room for the karma - since 70 karma is way more important than 175K nuyen to me.
BlackHat
Ah, the resident AI thing might help explain why I might be ditching his high lifestyle (shaking up with some random TM)
Gremish
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 11 2008, 05:25 PM) *
Up to GM interpretation, but I would assume, no. TMs do things differently, they use software to form programs out of the resonance of the matrix - not compile together statements in modern programming languages using good software practices. The rules say pretty clearly that TMs have to pick different versions of those skills that don't work with the normal ones - so I wouldn't imagine that they could write programs that normal people could execute or work with.


We can use degration if you guys want, really I dont care, either version is fine with me. Whatever you prefer as far as "role play" of it goes. Obviously its more realistic to have it degrade, however its also a major slap int eh hacking teams face, but if the hacking team doesnt mind, I dont care.

Not to mention we could do a version of degration ourselves if we really want to. Something like a use system, or something.

Regardless whatever you guys want I will work with
Gremish
QUOTE (Oenone @ Aug 11 2008, 05:47 PM) *
@Gremish Cheers. smile.gif

Hmm I'll re-adjust the Virtual contact then, to remove the area bit. That is providing the idea of a Technomancer social club is okay?

Oh and if you decide the In debt quality is going to be a problem let me know and I'll have another BP build up as soon as possible!


The social club is fine.

The in debt I can work with so it wont be a issue!
DWC
I'm leaning towards shoving Vice back to Hong Kong. Who wants to be my swim buddy? smile.gif
Gremish
Holy hell guys, I am now FINNALY caught up on all posts lol.

Took me all freaking day. I am completely SWAMPED at work so I apologize for it taking a while.

If i missed anything important PLEASE ask again so I dont have to dig for it =P

Also as far as the 10th guy goes, I dont care its really not much of a difference for me to go from 9-10 so if you guys want a big ass troll running around feel free.
BlackHat
I would actually prefer the degredation rules, because it would open up the piracy rules, which would allow me to get new programs at 10% cost down the road. Sure, they will degrade over time, but drumming up $2,000 for a rating four tacnet that we might use once sounds better than paying $20,000 for the same tacnet that we only use once. biggrin.gif
crizh
If we are all going to be spread around I'm happy to stay in Hong Kong. Granny is a bit of a tele-commuter also and I really like the Whmpoa Data Haven.

On the chargen side I'm obviously going to vote for karmagen. Much as I'd like to swap 35BP for karma a BP TM hasn't got any spare BP's to be swapping for anything. I'm very much of the opinion that Mages and TM's are very difficult to make with any less than 450BP's without some sort of min/maxing creeping into the build.

Karmagen would make everyone a lot more rounded without, hopefully, any massive power spikes....

[edit]An extra bit of muscle sure wouldn't hurt...

(of to bed now...)
Gremish
The problem is so far it really seems that Karmagen DOES make a massive power spike which I would prefer to avoid. With 10 players people being weak in some areas isnt a big deal, you learn to adapt and work as a team better when you cant do everything yourself!
DWC
Updated Vice's background and stats to put him back into Hong Kong, and swapped 35BP for 70 karma, to get rid of a negative quality and slightly improve his Intuition.
BlackHat
I will be happy with either chargen method. Cutting 35 build points out of my previous build is turning out to be harder than I thought, but I'll either make it work, or not take that many out.
BlackHat
QUOTE (DWC @ Aug 11 2008, 07:01 PM) *
Updated Vice's background and stats to put him back into Hong Kong, and swapped 35BP for 70 karma, to get rid of a negative quality and slightly improve his Intuition.


Wouldn't it be the same points to just not take the quality, than to buy karma and pay it off?
DWC
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 11 2008, 07:12 PM) *
Wouldn't it be the same points to just not take the quality, than to buy karma and pay it off?


Not quite. By trading in BP for karma, I was able to keep the skills the same without the free points from the quality, with some karma left over to boost a stat.

The karma based character generation really does remind me of the good old Sum to 10 days.
Ears
QUOTE (Gremish @ Aug 11 2008, 10:38 PM) *
Sounds good to me, you can spend up to 35 BP for Karma. Makes it simple for me as well =)


Whoa I just did the tradein and with all my 1 point skill(group)s it was like getting another 35 BP wink.gif

[ Spoiler ]
Intro
Abe really works best in Seattle or Detroit, since he goes by land. In either case, he's just tends to just be passing through, in between jobs. Interests to connect him with others: environmentalism, anachronisms (like to sit in cafes and read printed books waiting to meet with contacts), and various things assorted with smuggling.

I'd prefer karmagen, myself. I made up one with 750 karma when people were talking about it. The one thing I'd really focused him on medium-ranged combat. With karmagen, I can up his athletics and outdoors and hand-to-hand. Just makes him more rounded. But it is a pretty substantial boost. Moderate boost to skills and pretty significat boost to attributes. I think something like 650 karma might be a good way to allow slightly more rounded characters without pumping them up too much. But I don't know where the sweet spot would be.

W/ regard to trading in BP for karma, it seems with sufficient planning and cleverness, or if your build is set up right, it's just like adding free BP. It seems like doing that would be easier than conmingling the two systems.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 11 2008, 07:39 PM) *
W/ regard to trading in BP for karma, it seems with sufficient planning and cleverness, or if your build is set up right, it's just like adding free BP. It seems like doing that would be easier than conmingling the two systems.


Well, adding BP doesn't allow you to spend karma on the handful of things that can only be bought with karma.
cndblank
EZ can be a Detroit homeboy.


QUOTE (Gremish @ Aug 11 2008, 05:49 PM) *
As far as shared gear goes, I am going to have you each Pair up, it looks like Seatle will be our start location which is fine by me but I want each of you to find at least 1 other person to "start" with, you will know each other and have some special things for each of you in your city.

We have 4 Cities:

Seattle
Detroit
Hong Kong
Tokyo

With 9 players currently that means 2 in each with 1 with 3.

Start deciding who is starting where and who is with who please.

Intro
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Aug 11 2008, 08:48 PM) *
Well, adding BP doesn't allow you to spend karma on the handful of things that can only be bought with karma.

Any limits to this? I mean, 70 karma allows an awful lot of initiation.
cndblank
QUOTE (Gremish @ Aug 11 2008, 06:59 PM) *
The problem is so far it really seems that Karmagen DOES make a massive power spike which I would prefer to avoid. With 10 players people being weak in some areas isnt a big deal, you learn to adapt and work as a team better when you cant do everything yourself!


Well that karma means EZ is a lot more rounded. Makes it soooo much easier. And a few more Rating one skills and not having a Str won't break the bank.

Thanks!

Speaking of power spike, Can the magically active initiate or do you want to save it for in game?
Gremish
QUOTE (cndblank @ Aug 11 2008, 08:53 PM) *
Well that karma means EZ is a lot more rounded. Makes it soooo much easier. And a few more Rating one skills and not having a Str won't break the bank.

Thanks!

Speaking of power spike, Can the magically active initiate or do you want to save it for in game?


No initiation please, I prefer those in game!
Gremish
QUOTE (Intro @ Aug 11 2008, 08:53 PM) *
Any limits to this? I mean, 70 karma allows an awful lot of initiation.



I will leave it open until someone tries to break it.
DWC
QUOTE (DWC @ Aug 11 2008, 07:01 PM) *
Updated Vice's background and stats to put him back into Hong Kong, and swapped 35BP for 70 karma, to get rid of a negative quality and slightly improve his Intuition.


That reminds me, Crizh, you cool with Granny having Vice as her swim buddy? It'd be a convenient explanation for why someone with no computer skills whatsoever has a top of the line commlink with a state of the art custom OS, loaded with useful software.
Glyph
Viper is definitely best for Seattle to start with, with so much of her background/family/etc. there, so that would make her Weaver's swim buddy (and possibly one more). I'll start brainstorming how they could know each other, and I'll see how trading in some BP for Karma could round Viper out a bit.
Tarantula
I promised and so deliver Brick for you consideration. Here he is, please let me know if you guys are interested (Just throw a brick yes or brick no in your next post or something?)

[ Spoiler ]


I just might pick up runner's companion in the next day or so, and see if theres any minor tweaks I need to be doing.
DWC
I'm fine with Brick if Grem is cool with having 10 players.

What can you tell us about why the out of towners are in Emerald City? I'm writing Vice's intro and I'd love to be able to specify why he's not at home.
Intro
Hey, just wondering how allergy (pollutants) would play out in game. It seems like a good negative quality for nature guy, and suits him better than some of the other negative qualities I've shoehorned in. Would it be possible to avoid the negative effects by wearing his chemical protection (6) suit and a respirator in polluted parts, or maybe everywhere he goes in the city, possibly offending people? Or how would one use it without being a total screw-up in urban areas?

And I'm fine with Brick. Will he fit in the trunk?
Scope_47
Hi guys,

With the BP->karma thing, I may have to redo Jane's skillset slightly - but not much, just give her a couple of specializations if anything at all.

Does anyone want to be her buddy? Given her globe-hopping-ness, she could be in pretty much any city. I've got a full backstory for her that I will post after I find out who she is buddies with so that I can tweak it appropriately. BTW, I found a video on Youtube that really captures the style I was shooting for with Jane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRAFvluPNOM


However, the way the team is turning out, I find myself wondering if she really fits in. I've got Sarge mostly statted out if we want to go more the mercenary route, and she'd be a nice foil for Brick. What do you guys think?

- Scope
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