best fix i can think of is to only apply the most recent sprint check result, rather than stacking them. unless i misremember, the sprinting rules are balanced such that a high-end human will get roughly Olympic-like results with their average sprint check. if multiple sprint checks stack, then it breaks the base rules.

Frank, movement exists outside of combat. You make your movement for you action. If you run, you run for the whole pass. You don't take a running action per action, but per pass. So the most you could do is roll to sprint each pass. During each sprint check you add the number of hits in meters to your movement that pass.

i checked and double-checked, and what i came up with is that someone with 4 Str and 4 running can, if they get 5 successes on each roll (above-average, certainly, but not unbelievable), will be able to run one mile in less than a minute and a half, if you allow sprinting to stack. that's with no cyber or magic whatsoever, just spending edge to get an extra IP. granted, they couldn't run the entire minute and a half at that speed because they'd run out of edge, but they can still get bursts of insane speed.

people who are on the upper end of human maximums cannot run 46mph if they're super-lucky. even the least-reliable measurements of the fastest human running speed is under 12m/s, which works out to about 26mph. i've got facts to back that up, please reciprocate.

the idea that running speeds vary wildly is the fallacy that every system since SR1 has bought into. in reality, the difference between the 100m dash time of an average high school track star and the 100m dash time of an Olympic gold medalist is measured in seconds, sometimes even tenths of a second. i tried to fix that in SR4, and it almost worked--if you allow only one Sprint check per combat turn, you end up with maximum unaugmented human speeds that (very) roughly mirror real-world maximum speeds, erring on the side of too fast. meanwhile, at the low end, unless someone is seriously deformed (negative qualities of some sort), they're going to be able to run at a reasonable minimum speed, even if it's only for a short while.

Frank, you don't have to be a butt. I am not insulting you. I don't belive you can take more than one movement action per pass. Your movement exists outside of combat, so when you declare you are sprinting, you are sprinting from that pass to the next.

that's.. flimsy, Shadow. i don't know if i'd buy that, myself. you can make it work, logically, if you tilt your head and squint your eyes, but i'd really like to believe that the devs wouldn't have intended to put in a set of exceptions that quirky without explicitly explaining them.

a better solution, to me, would be this: in the sprinting section, state that you can only make one sprinting check per turn, unless you are granted extra IPs by magic or cyber or bio. that way, everybody's happy: normal humans can't compete for pink slips on foot, and augmented humans can.

Since we are on topic discussing how many dice,

What is the most dice a "Face" can have as beginning character in negotiation?

<<Braces for the shock of it>>

Sarcastic, yes. A reason to continue stoking the flames by calling someone an ass, no.

Dragon gives +2 to negotiation. Seductress gives +2 to Con. There's a few Face type mentor spirit options.

*sigh*

ok, first off, a number of builds here are illegal because improved skills via adept powers have a cap of 1.5 times the skill, rounded *down*

skill 7 has a max augmented of 10.

secondly, to all you social adept folks...

elven adept with magic 6 starting.

charisma 8, intimidate 7(10), specialize +2, dragonslayer mentor +2, +5 kinesics, +3 dice from tailored pheromones, and + incompetence (some skill), gremlins 1, mild addiction, ork poser, etc for 7 points of notoriety.

that's a dice pool of 37 to start off with.

of course, i could min/max a little harder and, for example, make him a mystic adept. pick up physical mask (physical imposing, +1-3 dice) and a sustaining focus, and cast control thoughts or emotions for a potential 2 more dice. you do lose 1 kinesics die though. gain dice for binding lots of spirits so that you more easily outnumber, but that's a bit situational...

Umm, if I remember correctly aren't Ork/Elf Poser limited to humans only?

The Sentinel
Attribute and Skills
Intuition: 6
Ex.Attribute: Intuition +1
Perception 6 ( 8 ) Visual Spec.
Aptitude: Perception +1

Adept Powers (Total: 3,25)
Imp.Ability Perception +3 (0,75PP)
Enhanced Perception: 6 (1,5PP)
Enhanced Sense: Vision Enhancement +3 (0,25PP)
Enhanced Sense: Vision magnification (0,25PP)
Enhanced Sense: Low light (0,25PP)
Enhanced Sense: Flare Comp (0,25PP)

Bioware
Reflex Recorder +1 Perception

Visual Perception Tests: 28D6

Lady Grande (the newbie human pre-initiate version):

MA 6 (5 due to implants)

Charisma 6
Negotiation 7 (Bargaining +2)
Kinesics 5 (2.5 pp)
Improved Ability: Negotiate 3 (1.5 pp)
Tailored Pheromones 3
Adept Quality (5)
First Impression Quality (5)
Mentor Spirit Quality (5) - Dragon +2
Aptitude Quality – Negotiation (20)

Now the math
6 + 7 + 2 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 30 (situational due to First Impression Quality)

...as good as Jaid's elf face sans the Noteriety (which can also have negative effects).

Agreed that it's off-topic and I don't want to perpetuate this, but as I started this derailment, it seems appropriate I at least weigh in with one more vote on the issue because that might help close it and we can get back to where we were.

I agree with FrankTrollman's interpretation of RAW. You are allowed one run movement in a combat phase, but each sprint test adds extra distance to that movement and a sprint test is a simple action. However, this is very unrealistic both because it leads to inhuman speed (even for humans) and it means that jacking up your reflexes makes you run far more quickly and this makes no sense to me. I think this has to be an oversight on the part of the devs and an obvious candidate for errata. I might see if I can PM one of them to see if it should be. In the meantime, this is one of my very rare houserules.

I don't think it need errata so much as calrification that, like running, sprinting is a movement action and can only be done once per pass.

I can only add this, sprint, like running is a movement. You declare your movement rate before th action phase of your pass. You tell the GM if you are crawling, walking, running, or sprinting. Then you go on to declare what you are doing that pass. Movement is not an action, even though running and sprinting consume an action. It cannot be any clearer. You declare your movement rate. Then you act. You cannot change your movement rate halfway through your pass to walk, run, or to sprint again, since you are already sprinting.

I think the hesistance to accept that comes from the part where you say movement isn't an action, yet it consumes an action. Using up your action resources is the very definition of an action.

An action is something you do. You have finite time (actions) within each round to do stuff. Sprinting is one of the things you can do with that time. Those that have super reflexes have more 'time' to do stuff, and sometimes that just doesn't make sense. I don't buy that someone with super-reflexes can lay down more bullets in suppressive fire (since that's just hosing down the area without caring about accuracy -- just hold the trigger down), but they can, by the rules.

There is a difference between using an action do something, and doing something that uses up an action.

For instance, running uses up your free action. The logic being is that you have to focus on the movement. Sprinting just makes your running rate go up, you have to focus more so it uses up a simple action. You cannot change your rate of movement once declared. You are either running or walking. It exists outside of the combat turn, what you do with your action has no effect on your movement rate. Once you are running, you are running.

I can't argue this anymore. If you don't get it there is just something fundamently different in the way you an I grasp concepts that I cannot make you understand it. I put an email into info@shadowrun maybe they will addendum the FAQ. But I doubt it. This would be like putting in the FAQ, Character need to tell the GM each round that they are breathing.

It doesn't say in the rules I need air.

for the record, i think you should be able to multi-sprint if you have technological or magical increases to your IPs. i do like the idea of adeps and cyborgs being able to chase down cars on foot. blame it on GitS:SAC.

...OK, a few more characters written up for actual play.

<edit - forgot to spell check>

Note: these characters have other skills & abilities and are not Min-Maxed to the hilt just for the most god-awful DP you can get.

Markova (Mundane Dwarf: Former Military Field Medic)

Logic 5
+Level 2 Cerebral Booster
First Aid 5 (Combat Wounds +2)
Medikit 6

Base Pool:
5 + 2 +5 + 2 + 6 = 20 (18 for patching you up in the street).
Maximum boxes which she can heal = 7 for stuff like gunshots & blade wounds 5 for falling and other non combat injuries (including those from spells).

She is also more than competent with firearms, had a very good "bedside manner", and is no slouch when sneaking around or dealing with Electronics. She also has a Soak DP of 14/13.

KK (Human Adept)

Agility 5
Blades 6 (Katanas +2)
Improved Ability: Blades 3
Weapon Focus Power 2 (Bonded)
Reach 1

With her Katana:
5 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 18 (With Reach in her favour: 19)

KK is also good at Infiltration, Good with a gun (actually 2), can handle herself in social situations (especially regarding Japanese culture), an all around professional level athlete, and drives a big ol, Harley Hog. She may be dense as a brick when it comes to academic stuff but is very aware out on the streets. KK also has a Soak DP of 14/12 (2 levels of Mystic Armour).

Media Blitz (Elf Reporter Adept).

Charisma 5
+ racial modifier (elf) 2
Influence Group 4
Improved ability Negotiation 2 & Con 2
Kinesics 4
Tailored Pheromones 1
First Impression Quality

For interviewing (subset of Negotiation) or Fast Talking her way out of a jam her DP is:
5 + 2 + 4 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 2 = 20.

For being the target of social tests she adds +2 for Cool Resolve

She can also handle a gun, is excellent at data research,is pretty perceptive (you have to be in her biz), and can sneak around to get the best angle. She also has a suite of implanted sensory mods and recording gear (sacrificing one point of MA which includes Synaptic Booster 1 and her Tailored Pheromones 1) Media also has a good set or supportive knowledge skills making her extremely useful for legwork.