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Shadow
I am pretty curious about this now thanks to the 16 Dice thread. So lets make it a little game. How many dice can you throw! Using Starting character rules (400bp, 12AV). No need to make a whole working character, one trick ponies are fine. Just say how many dice, how you got there, and any other pertinent rules.
Cain
This'll get trumped fast, but Mr. Lucky can throw up to 28:
6 Quickness + 2 Muscle Replacement + 6 Pistols + 2 Specialization +1 Aptitude + 1 Reflex recorder + 2 Smartlink + 8 edge.
Shadow
You mean Agility? I don't think Edge should really count, you can only use edge once. So lets do it sans edge and get a more accurate reading on most dice thrown.
Mistwalker
Hmm, what does muscle replacement have to do using a firearm?

Shakes his head,
Ah, muscle toner, got it
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (Mistwalker)
Hmm, what does muscle replacement have to do using a firearm?

Shakes his head,
Ah, muscle toner, got it

Nope - He probly does mean muscle replacement - sure its essence intensive, but it increases both strength and agility by its rating. Which might be a good thing considering how many BPs he is probably spending on the rest.

QUOTE (SR4 BBB)
Muscle Replacement: Implanted, vat-grown synthetic
muscles replace the user’s own. Calcium treatments and
skeletal reinforcement allow an overall increase in the user’s
strength. Muscle replacement increases both the Strength
and Agility attributes by its rating. It cannot be combined
with muscle augmentation or muscle toner bioware.
Demerzel
Pornomancer. 35 Dice for Seduction.

10 Charisma (Elf + Exceptional Attribute + Improved Charisma Adept Power)
6 Edge
6 Kinesics
11 Con (7 With aptitude + 4 with Adept ppower, I rounded up on the cap, unsure if that's right)
+2 seduction speciality
10 + 6 + 6 + 11 + 2 = 35 dice.

That's a fast analysis.

EDIT: If you're willing to throw in modifiers for things like smartlinks then.

+2 for plausable supporting evidence. (Yes sweetheart, I really do have a trophy for the worlds best lover.)
+1 for target distracted (Here sweetie, let me refill your drink)

So then 38.
Shadow
I don't think you can do that within the limitations of a starting character. And remember, no edge.
Demerzel
Why no edge? Cain used edge, and you can do that. =)

Edit: Oh, I see your reply to Cain. Well -6 then...
Shadow
Edge is a one time bonus. It doesn't really represent an ability you can use every day. I am actually curious to see what kind of dice you can throw every single time.

Demerzel
Qualities:
5 Adept
20 Exceptional attribute
10 Aptitude (con)
That's only 35 points in qualities.

Elf has a normal cap of 8 for Charisma, plus 1 for exceptional attribute gives 9, pay 2 power points to go above the natural limit to get to 10.
7 Con counting aptitude, and you can add up to half the rating in Improved Ability Power so 1 PP for +4 Con.
6 Kinesics is 3 power points. So there's your 6 Power Points. All at chargen…


So that's 29 every throw, 32 with modifiers for your worlds best lover trophy and the bottle of vodka.
Shadow
Right on!
Noctum
ok here we go....
Elven Mystic Adept - Exception attribute (Agility) 8
Blades skill with Speciality 6 + 2 = 8
Improved Ability _Combat Skill 6
Attribute Boost Lv 6 with 6 magic
Average of 1 in 3 = 4 agility boost 4
Weapon Focus lv 2 2

Total - 8+8+6+4+2 = 28 dice

And you can get really nasty if you get a sustainig focus for Health spells and set up a Increased Reflexs so you can do it 4 times a round.... Little peices of the bad guys every where ---

Razormatic Melee Machine.
Kyoto Kid
...of actual characters designed for play:

Da Brat (street kid con artist Adept: Human): 4 Charisma, Con 4 (Fast Talk +2), Kinesics 4, Improved Ability 2 (Con), First Impression. Quality = Fast Talk DP of 18.

OK so she doesn't break 20 (yet) & Edge is Not included.
Shadow
Wow 18 is good, especially if the character is designed for gameplay.
Demerzel
Okay 50 to 55 Dice for Resisting the firebolt Spell

Troll Mystic Adept:
10 Body (Troll at cap)
1 Quality: Toughness
7 Counterspelling [6 + 1 for Quality Aptitude (Counterspelling)]
2 Specialization (Combat spells)
2 Mentor Spirit (+2 for counterspelling with Mountain I think)
3 Counterspelling Focus (Combat)
6 Spell Resistance (1.5 power points)
7 Half Impact Armor (1 troll, 6 Urban Explorer Jumpsuit, 6 Riot Shield), Rounding up (May be wrong)
6 Fire resistance add on to armor
6 Fire resistance add on to shield

10 + 1 + 7 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 6 + 7 + 6 + 6 = 50

Attribute Boost Adept Power (2 + Magic dice, add hits up to 5)

So + 0 to 5 for attribute boost power, so 50 to 55 dice to resist firebolts...

Edit:
Ooh, I forgot the Urban Explorer Jumpsuit HElmet adds 2 to Impact. So half that for 1 more die. Plus if you want to be really a pita about the rules, 6 more for fire resistance on the helmet...

So 56 to 61....
Kyoto Kid
...ummm isn't Spell Resistance .5 per level?
pbangarth
Troll adept "tank" with implants --- minimum 39 dice for ballistic damage resistance, min. 37 dice for impact damage (maximum 41/39).

Armour:

adept power mystic armor (3/3)
orthoskin (3/3)
troll natural (1/1)
alum. bone lacing (-/1)
armor jacket (8/6)
helmet (1/2)
ballistic shield) (6/4)

Sub-Total (22/20)

BOD (for damage resistance purposes):

BOD 10
toughness Quality 1
alum. bone lacing 2
bone density (4) 4
adept power BOD boost (2) 0-2

Sub-Total 17-19

TOTAL 39-41 dice for ballistic damage, 37-39 dice for impact damage.
Shadow
DAMN!
Demerzel
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
...ummm isn't Spell Resistance .5 per level?

Yea, my bad, but he only needs 1 for spellcasting Magic so it's not a deal killer...
Dayhawk
I must never let my friend find this post! eek.gif
Whipstitch
According to the errata, Bone Density and Bone lacing won't stack for the purposes of raising your body score. You just get whatever's higher. My understanding is that you'd get to keep the impact armor bonus though.


Anyway, here's an entry for you guys. Jumping cyber adept.

Agility: 6 dice
Gymnastics (Jumping): 6(+2)+ Improved Ability: (Gymnastics) 3= Skill pool of 11
Alpha Obvious lower legs with rating 6 Hydraulic Jacks and enough agility to keep up with the meat limbs: 6 bonus dice dice
Synthacardium 3: 3 bonus dice
Great Leap 5: 5 bonus dice

Grand total: 31 dice. It gets incredibly ridiculous when you add in the fact that 6 points of hydraulic jacks adds 120% to your leap distance. Also subracts an effective 12 meters from falling distance, provided you land on your feet, which shouldn't be too hard for this guy.
FrankTrollman
Hmm...

OK let's talk Elven Houngan Swordmaster.

We start with a Magic of 6 and then we gank ourselves down to a 5 in order to get rating 2 Muscle Toner, jacking our already exceptional attribute Agility to 10. Then we overcast while conjuring a Guardian Spirit and allow Ogoun to take control of our body with a Force 10 spirit.

Now we need medical care, because we probably just took a pile of physical drain. But regardless, when the first aid is done we go storming onto the scene with an Agility of 20 and a Blades skil of 10. We get +1 from reach on the sword and we can charge approximately four hundred and forty fur kilometers per hour - so I'll assume we can get that charge and take an extra +2 from that.

So we burst in rolling a simple 33 dice when we charge in to cut an opponent down with our sword (which inflicts about 9P base, so I expect to take out about 2 enemies per turn during normal combat).

I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "couldn't you just not get the cyberware, and overcast a Force 12 spirit? You'd roll 35 dice on the attack..." And you'd be right. Except that the drain on Force 10 is bad, and the Drain on Force 12 is something that is actually quite likely to kill a Great Dragon, let alone your punk ass starting character self.

-Frank
Jaid
no weapon focus?
WearzManySkins
Frank at 440 kph means you hit things you do not have time to see, like a strand of monowire, hitting that at that speed, you will be beside yourself.

Or if you run into a barrier like wall with inviso cast on it. At that speed the damage you would take.....

Since you cover the distance so fast in combat round, your chances of spotting such are nil. We will just call your Elf Swordmaster Splat! smile.gif
toturi
Normal version of PC adapted for DR's online campaign:

Perception 6 + 2(vision)
Intuition 5
Enhanced Perception 5
Imp Ability Perception 3
Enhanced Vision (from glasses or contacts) 3
Multi Tasking (free action for Observe in Detail) 3

27 dice

Will do the extreme version once I get home.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Jaid)
no weapon focus?

Meh. You should probably have a Rating 1 Focus. The higher forces of foci are pretty uninspiring when you already roll so many dice, but whatever. Heck, for that matter you should look into getting a Force 1 Monowhip focus and then taking EMW: Monowhip as an optional power every time and puch yourself all the way to 35 dice, but a magic sword is probably what yu're looking for.

QUOTE (WMS)
Frank at 440 kph means you hit things you do not have time to see, like a strand of monowire, hitting that at that speed, you will be beside yourself.

Or if you run into a barrier like wall with inviso cast on it. At that speed the damage you would take.....


It's actually magic movement, specifically with the Movement power, so that's not a problem. It operates hrough time dilation or something - only the distance covered ias muliplied and everything else stays the same.

The same reason that you can't multiply the speed of your bullets by ten and get one hundred times the kinetic energy means that you can multiply your own speed by ten and not rip yourself in half dealing with the stress.

The movement power doesn't make your charge do any extra damage (that's bad), but it also isn't any less safe (that's good).

-Frank
Aaron
Lemme see ...

Remotely Controlling a Eurocar Westwind 3K by a Technomancer w/ Resonance 6:

9 dice for Vehicle Skill + Aptitude + Specialization
6 dice for Command complex form
0-10 (EV=3) dice for threaded Command complex form
0-24 (EV=8) dice for Rating 12 machine sprite using Diagnostics on car
3 dice for Handling of car

So I think we're looking at a possible 52 dice, with an expected value of only 29, and a minimum of 18.
toturi
Perception Adept

Perception 7 + 2
Intuition 7 + 1 (Psyche)
Enhanced Perception 6
Imp Ability Perception 3
Vision Enhancement 3
Multitasking 3

Total: 32 dice

EDIT: Bad case of the stoopit.
pbangarth
toturi help me out here, I don't understand some of your points.

1) What is the "Psyche" which gives an extra die to Intuition?

2) With a skill rating of 7 in Perception, isn't the Improved Ability Perception limited to 3 dice?

3) How does Multitasking give extra dice?

Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (pbangarth)
toturi help me out here, I don't understand some of your points.

1) What is the "Psyche" which gives an extra die to Intuition?

For Psyche - see SR4 BBB pg 250. [Drugs and Brainbenders]

Duration: (12 - body) hours, minimum of 1 hour
Effect: +1 Intuition and +1 Logic

ElFenrir
Ill try to do this...WITHOUT sacrificing the other stats too much, and still possibly be able to do other things.


Random Elf Guy who can Kick your Ass:

+Qualities:
Adept
Ex. Attribute: Agility
Aptitude: Unarmed Combat
35 points

-Qualities:
Severe Allergy(Soy)(15)
Sensitive System(15)
Mild Addiction/Sim(5)

Elf: 30 points

Magic:6(reduced to 5)(65 points)
Agility: 7(50 points. Ex. Attribute makes 8 the max, and the 25 point point)
Muscle Toner lv. 2(.4 essence)
Muscle Aug lv2(.4 ess)
Agility 7(9)
Strength 3(5)
(for the record, attributes down the line are B4(30),A7(50)R4(30)S3(20)C3(0)I4(30)L2(10)W3(20)=190 points

Total Spent: 285 points


Unarmed Combat(Style of Choice, say Kickboxing):7(+2)=34 points

319 spent

We still have 81 points to divide to other skills and resources, Edge, or whatever you like.

Improved Unarmed Combat:6(3 points)
Agility Boost 2(.5 points)

Use up remaining 1.5 points as wished, id say to give him maximum ability, 4 points of Critical Strike with Killing Hands, granting him 7P base. grinbig.gif

Ok, sooo...

Agility-9
Unarmed w/Spec-9
Imp Unarmed-6

For a total of 24 dice. This is a bit less than some other people...but this character still has points to play with and is not heavily compromised in other areas.

I might have made some mistakes, but i think it's legal.





X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Aaron)
Lemme see ...

Remotely Controlling a Eurocar Westwind 3K by a Technomancer w/ Resonance 6:

9 dice for Vehicle Skill + Aptitude + Specialization
6 dice for Command complex form
0-10 (EV=3) dice for threaded Command complex form
0-24 (EV=cool.gif dice for Rating 12 machine sprite using Diagnostics on car
3 dice for Handling of car

So I think we're looking at a possible 52 dice, with an expected value of only 29, and a minimum of 18.

9 dice for Vehicle Skill + Aptitude + Specialization

Thats fine...

6 dice for Command complex form
0-10 (EV=3) dice for threaded Command complex form

It starts at a 6, you roll Software + Resonance and add hits up to a maximum of resonance x2. So that number is more like 0 - 12 (software + spec) with an average of 4. Your max is still 12 though.

0-24 (EV=cool.gif dice for Rating 12 machine sprite using Diagnostics on car

Speaking again on drain...

3 from handling

So, max dice would be... 9 + 12 + 24 + 3 or 48 max.
Average would be 9 + 10 + 8 + 3 or 30
minimum would be 9 + 6 + 0 + 3 or 18
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (toturi)
Perception Adept

Perception 7 + 2
Intuition 7 + 1 (Psyche)
Enhanced Perception 6
Imp Ability Perception 6
Vision Enhancement 3
Multitasking 3

Total: 35 dice

Improved Ability: Perception only goes up to +3 dice.

So you're down to 32 dice.

-Frank
X-Kalibur
Just stupid enough to be funny...

Rappelling Troll Adept

Muscle Aug 2
Synthacardum 3
Attribute Boost (strength) 4
Imp Ability Climbing 3
Reflex Recorder (climbing)
Enhanced Articulation
Balance Augmenter

Str 10(12)
Climbing (Rapelling) 10(12) + 3 (+2) +1 +1 +1
Attribute boost 4 + 4 (2 avg hits, max 4)

Total of! 12 + 20 + (0 - 4) So a minimum of 32 dice if rappelling, max of 36. Amusing and stupid at the same time.



odinson
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)

We start with a Magic of 6 and then we gank ourselves down to a 5 in order to get rating 2 Muscle Toner, jacking our already exceptional attribute Agility to 10. Then we overcast while conjuring a Guardian Spirit and allow Ogoun to take control of our body with a Force 10 spirit.

So we burst in rolling a simple 33 dice when we charge in to cut an opponent down with our sword (which inflicts about 9P base, so I expect to take out about 2 enemies per turn during normal combat).

unless you have the metamagic technique channelling when you're posessed you're under the gm's control as he controls the spirits. So your gm really gets to roll all those dice. Thats when he pulls the loaded dice out and rolls all 1's.
Kyoto Kid
...hehhehheh vegm.gif
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (odinson)
unless you have the metamagic technique channelling when you're posessed you're under the gm's control as he controls the spirits. So your gm really gets to roll all those dice. Thats when he pulls the loaded dice out and rolls all 1's.


QUOTE (Roleplaying Possession (SR Street Magic - pg 103 sidebar))

A magician possessed by a spirit he summoned is fully aware of what the spirit is doing, and is still able to give it commands and directions. In the interest of fairness, it is suggested gamemasters allow a player of a possessed magician to roleplay the spirit that they command and which is controlling their body.


Considering its Frank - I'm pretty sure he was using that little sidebar on page 103. wink.gif
odinson
QUOTE (Smilin_Jack)


QUOTE (Roleplaying Possession (SR Street Magic - pg 103 sidebar))

A magician possessed by a spirit he summoned is fully aware of what the spirit is doing, and is still able to give it commands and directions. In the interest of fairness, it is suggested gamemasters allow a player of a possessed magician to roleplay the spirit that they command and which is controlling their body.




It's only a suggestion and subject to gm's approval. I always figured if you need a gm's approval it should be assumed the answer is no. Otherwise none of the limits are valid because a gm can overide them.
Smilin_Jack
True.

Then again, lots of things in SR are subject to GM fiat - LOS issues, combat bonuses and penalties, initiation, possession, when the hell edge refreshes, and how often the scanners roll to detect the PC PANs.

Without that little advisory sidebar though, I can't see any of my players ever being interesting in any of the possession traditions or myself using a voodoo magician against the players. If I held my players to something like that, I'd have to pull out those same loaded dice when rolling for the NPCs - which would really suck.

That sidebar being present in an "advisory" stance and not an listed under a "optional rule", I'm definitely more likely to follow it.
odinson
I probably wouldn't. I would have the player spend his services telling the spirit what to do then I would direct the spirit. Letting the player be in control is what channeling is for. Possession traditions are powerful enough as is. The plasteel homunculus is crazy powerful. Their spirits can possess opponents taking them out of the fight. The can posses cars and guns, or anything now.

If you use the sidebar in your games thats cool. I was just saying for a theoretical build any rule that needs a gm's approval should be denied.

My players do think my dice are loaded. I usually get about 45% hit rate with a dice pool. If they could roll that good on my dice then i might believe them, but if I let them try they roll poorly.
knasser

Groundshaker - Troll Running Adept

Base Strength 10 + Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 5 = 15
Base Running Skill 6 + Apitude 1 + Improved Ability (Running) 3 + Specialisation (Sprinting) = 12

Total on Sprint Test = 27 dice.

Not as much as some of the other dice pools on here but look what it means -

Average = 9 hits which is + 18m per combat phase distance which brings a troll up to 53m every three seconds or a staggering 63km/h. I know we're not counting edge in the pool normally, but with a single re-roll, his average speed would be 65m every phase or a little over 20m/s or 78km/h. Just under 50mph in the UK.

This fellah is fast.
pbangarth
What a sight that would be!

Ummm... wouldn't the Improved Physical Attribute (STR) cost two Power points each above 10 STR for the troll?
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE
Ummm... wouldn't the Improved Physical Attribute (STR) cost two Power points each above 10 STR for the troll?


Yep - but no biggie.


Base Strength 10 + Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 2 + Attribute Boost (Strength) 1 = 12+

Base Running Skill 6 + Apitude 1 + Improved Ability (Running) 3 + Specialisation (Sprinting) + Synthacardium 3 + Enhanced Articulation 1 + Reflex Recorder 1 = 17

Total on Sprint Test = 29+ dice.

Magic 6(5) [Decreased 1 for Bioware]
.25 PP For Attribute Boost (Strength) 1
.75 PP For Improved Ability (Running) 3
4 PP For Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 2

DireRadiant
I can't get more then about 12 dice into my hand.
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ May 17 2007, 01:49 PM)
Just stupid enough to be funny...

Rappelling Troll Adept

Muscle Aug 2
Synthacardum 3
Attribute Boost (strength) 4
Imp Ability Climbing 3
Reflex Recorder (climbing)
Enhanced Articulation
Balance Augmenter

Str 10(12)
Climbing (Rapelling) 10(12) + 3 (+2) +1 +1 +1
Attribute boost 4 + 4 (2 avg hits, max 4)

Total of! 12 + 20 + (0 - 4) So a minimum of 32 dice if rappelling, max of 36. Amusing and stupid at the same time.

Minor problem - Attribute Boost isn't compatible with any other attribute augmentations, whether from implants or spells, with the exception of the Improved Physical Attribute adept power.

So you'll either be capped at 32, or have a pool variance of 30 to 34. Depends on how you want to go.
X-Kalibur
Thats what I get for working it out without my book handy. Still pretty amusing though... no idea what he'll do after he rappels, but I'm sure it involves standing there and getting shot.
knasser
QUOTE (Smilin_Jack)
QUOTE
Ummm... wouldn't the Improved Physical Attribute (STR) cost two Power points each above 10 STR for the troll?


Yep - but no biggie.


Base Strength 10 + Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 2 = 12

Base Running Skill 6 + Apitude 1 + Improved Ability (Running) 3 + Specialisation (Sprinting) + Synthacardium 3 + Enhanced Articulation 1 + Reflex Recorder 1 = 17

Total on Sprint Test = 29 dice.

Magic 6(5) [Decreased 1 for Bioware]
.75 PP For Improved Ability (Running) 3
4 PP For Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 2

.25 PP Left


Oops - good point, pbangarth.

SmilingJack - thanks for making the troll even more hideously fast. I think that once the strength is maxed out, the next step aim should be an endless cycle of initiation, magic boosting and the total puchase of Mystic Armour points. I shall then name this character as "Wall-B-Gone." biggrin.gif
FrankTrollman
QUOTE
It's only a suggestion and subject to gm's approval. I always figured if you need a gm's approval it should be assumed the answer is no. Otherwise none of the limits are valid because a gm can overide them.


This isn' an alternate rule or something, it's a suggested method of handling the game. It's the way that Street Magic tells you to run the game, which means that not allowing the players to roll their own dice while possessed with their own spirits is the exception, and not the "rule".

QUOTE
 
Groundshaker - Troll Running Adept

Base Strength 10 + Improved Physical Attribute (Strength) 5 = 15
Base Running Skill 6 + Apitude 1 + Improved Ability (Running) 3 + Specialisation (Sprinting) = 12

Total on Sprint Test = 27 dice.

Not as much as some of the other dice pools on here but look what it means -

Average = 9 hits which is + 18m per combat phase distance which brings a troll up to 53m every three seconds or a staggering 63km/h. I know we're not counting edge in the pool normally, but with a single re-roll, his average speed would be 65m every phase or a little over 20m/s or 78km/h. Just under 50mph in the UK.

This fellah is fast.


You can go substantially faster than that with that guy. First of all, Sprinting is a Simple Action, not a Complex. So he can make his Sprint Checks twice per Initiative Pass - adding 18 meters per 3 seconds (85.2 KPH total).

But imagine instead that you gave up 3 of those points of Improved Attribute and took Improved Reflexes in its place. That pushes you down to only 24 dice and thus only 16m per sprint test. That's a shame, but you'll be making four more sprint checks each combat turn. Now we're talking. We're talking 157.2 kilometers per hour on the straightaway. That's an 1/8th mile in 4.6 seconds - which will beat a Toyota Celica GTS (which does the 1/8th mile in 4.9 seconds).

In short, with some Reflex expansion, our Troll Adept can footrace for pinkslips in street drag racing.

---

And yeah, if you can get a Spirit in on this, you can go stupid fast since Movement is a power that grants a straight multiple to your distance covered each round.

-Frank
Smilin_Jack
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ May 17 2007, 04:44 PM)
And yeah, if you can get a Spirit in on this, you can go stupid fast since Movement is a power that grants a straight multiple to your distance covered each round.

-Frank

Hrm... maybe I finally found that niche for Mystic Adepts I've been looking for - of course, between the summoned spirits, 'ware, and adept powers - there ain't league in existence that's gonna let them play. nyahnyah.gif

Hah - its even kookier than I thought.

Base Strength 10 + Muscle Augmentation [Alpha] 2 = 12

Base Running Skill 6 + Apitude 1 + Improved Ability (Running) 3 + Specialisation (Sprinting) + Synthacardium [Std] 3 + Enhanced Articulation [Std] 1 + Reflex Recorder [Alpha] 1 = 17

Total on Sprint Test = 29 dice.

Summoned and bind F2 Guardian Spirit for x2 movement power boost.

[ Spoiler ]

knasser
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ May 17 2007, 09:44 PM)
You can go substantially faster than that with that guy. First of all, Sprinting is a Simple Action, not a Complex. So he can make his Sprint Checks twice per Initiative Pass - adding 18 meters per 3 seconds (85.2 KPH total).


No... it can't be? Is it? I have never noticed that before. And nor has anyone else I've gamed with! I'm going to have to think about this. I'm not sure it makes sense for improved reflexes to make you run faster, but by the rules, I think you are correct.

Wow! If this is how it's supposed to be played, that's going to be some fast characters running about. I think this might be a candidate for my third ever house-rule. It was never errated?

-K.
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