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IvanTank
So, it says that cares can point there guns around cameras and shoot, aiming with the smartlinks gun camera. What types of modifiers would apply for a test like this?
Jaid
i think the general consensus that was agreed on was that it worked like firing from full cover, because that's basically what it is.
Red Fox
cool because I've got a candy-raver orc on a rampage that's causing lonestar nightmares right now - this'll help put this into balance a bit more. They'll still need to corner her enough to get some officers into a flanking position though (which tends to prove hard due to the sniper rifle toting partner the orc has).

preciate the public opinion Jaid.
mfb
*sob*
Crusher Bob
Remember that airborne drones are a Lone Star favorite. They don't have to send out the officers when a bunch of armed rotor-drones can get there faster and with less insurance risk.
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (Turtleboy)
cool because I've got a candy-raver orc on a rampage that's causing lonestar nightmares right now - this'll help put this into balance a bit more. They'll still need to corner her enough to get some officers into a flanking position though (which tends to prove hard due to the sniper rifle toting partner the orc has).

Don't forget that lonestar has more resourses than just guns. An Air Spirit or 2 could surprise the sniper. They would have snipers of thier own. Swat teams with military grade armor and ballistic shields. Armed attack vehicles. Smoke grenades. Mages with invisibility spells.
psychophipps
And my personal favorite...puke gas. wink.gif
Just mix it with hot smoke, so the sniper can't see anything to shoot, and ultrasound your way to an easy arrest. Can't be a deathmachine if you're spraying your lunch all over the alleyway.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

kzt
QUOTE (Turtleboy)
They'll still need to corner her enough to get some officers into a flanking position though (which tends to prove hard due to the sniper rifle toting partner the orc has).

Why bother? Use a pair of roto drones with MMGs from 1000 meters away. There is a reason why Lone Star has them.
IvanTank
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Turtleboy @ May 19 2007, 07:39 PM)
They'll still need to corner her enough to get some officers into a flanking position though (which tends to prove hard due to the sniper rifle toting partner the orc has).

Why bother? Use a pair of roto drones with MMGs from 1000 meters away. There is a reason why Lone Star has them.

They would need to use LMGs, MMGs are to big for the weapon mount that you can get with 3 body.
kzt
QUOTE (IvanTank)
They would need to use LMGs, MMGs are to big for the weapon mount that you can get with 3 body.

Yeah, but the Lone Star Strato-9 that carries an MMG was both totally legal to buy over the counter and the entire armed drone cost less than the MMG IIRC. . . SR3 had some interesting quirks.
BGMFH
Yeah, but the general consensus was that they were stolen goods at that price, just readily available... In my meory at least of the rampaging arguments that particular drone always evoked.
Demon_Bob
I would have any recoil modifiers not compensated for doubled.
It would involve sticking just your arm to the elbow around the corner, so practically full cover. This could really only be done with firearms that can be shot with just one hand.

Yes I have seen Future Weapons with the Rifle that can shoot around corners. So specialized equipment would be possible. The "Rifle" in the show looks like a specialized pistol, with a bunch of nifty equipment behind it. The firearm showcased does keep all body parts behind cover though.
Edward
I see no reason to restrict it to weapons that can be used in one hand.

Take your long arm that is built to be used with one had on the trigger, one on the horizontal grip under the barrel (e.g. shotgun slide). It may or may not have a shoulder stock.

With your left hand palm up in front of you place the for grip (or shotgun slide) in your palm and hold, your right hand will grip the handle with your thumb under the trigger guard (if present) and your fingers reaching over where the ball of your palm would normally go. while standing with full cover behind a wall with the enemy around the corner and to your left you extend your arms so the gun points around the corner.

I would defiantly double uncompensated recoil and the shoulder stock provides no advantage.

Another nasty piece of equipment is the smart firing platform, I can se them being pushed around the corner in groups of 3 or more.

Edward
Red Fox
QUOTE (Jaid)
i think the general consensus that was agreed on was that it worked like firing from full cover, because that's basically what it is.

wait - full cover? I looked it up and it only has 'firing from cover: -1' in the ranged modifiers chart. nothing about firing from full cover.
Jaid
you sure? i thought it was -1 to attacking from it, and -3 or so to attack someone who has it...
Ravor
Well I'm feeling too lazy to double check after writing up a bunch of House-Rules for a new campaign very loosely based on Bleach (I kept the same basic concept but stripped away as much of the Japanese Anama feeling as I could), but if I remember correctly in order to shoot back at someone with Full Cover you have to shoot through the Barrier Rating of whatever he's hiding behind plus you get modifiers for not knowing exactly where to aim. (I wouldn't hand out the full 'Blind Fire' Modifier since you basically know where he is since he's got to be holding the fragging gun, but its still got to be worth something.)
MaxHunter
so... -4 instead of -6 maybe?

Cheers,

Max
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (kzt @ May 20 2007, 02:01 AM)
Yeah, but the Lone Star Strato-9 that carries an MMG was both totally legal to buy over the counter and the entire armed drone cost less than the MMG IIRC. . .  SR3 had some interesting quirks.

Although certian drones came with weapons we never played that the cost of the weapon was included in the cost of the drone.

QUOTE
I see no reason to restrict it to weapons that can be used in one hand.

Finding it hard to imagine a stable firing platform as such. Ok, perhaps 2 handed firearms, but with double range mods.

QUOTE
Another nasty piece of equipment is the smart firing platform, I can se them being pushed around the corner in groups of 3 or more.


Oh ya! smile.gif Those are great! They don't really need to be manned.
Red Fox
QUOTE (Jaid)
you sure? i thought it was -1 to attacking from it, and -3 or so to attack someone who has it...

right, so if you're firing a smartlinked gun around a corner relying on the guncams in the smartgun system to sight and aim, giving you full cover then you're at -1 dice pool modifier if no other conditions exist (like enemy in cover, etc). is that correct?

thanks for clarifying for me smile.gif
Edward
QUOTE (Demon_Bob)

QUOTE
I see no reason to restrict it to weapons that can be used in one hand.

Finding it hard to imagine a stable firing platform as such. Ok, perhaps 2 handed firearms, but with double range mods.

If your doing this at any range that would inflict penalties on a 2 handed weapon you shouldn’t be trying it. At least not for anything other than suppressive fire.

The other trick is to have a age with magic fingers hold the gun from 5 meters back.

Of cause the tricks a skilled mage can pull against a low number of opponents are scary, alternating real and illusionary opponents, never offering a real target forcing the enemy to burn ammunition until its all gone, I will have to do that some time.

Edward
Demon_Bob
QUOTE (Edward)
The other trick is to have a mage with magic fingers hold the gun from 5 meters back.

Of cause the tricks a skilled mage can pull against a low number of opponents are scary, alternating real and illusionary opponents, never offering a real target forcing the enemy to burn ammunition until its all gone, I will have to do that some time.

Edward

smile.gif
OSUMacbeth
In my games, I assess a penalty of -4, and agility applies normally. Still far better than blind fire.
psychophipps
My issue is that you can aim fine with a recticle from a remote location. I mean, look at how cool you are with a mouse. You're not touching the screen itself but the mouse seems to find it's way to the target just fine. Why is it suddenly different with a firearm when it's held from around a corner?
Recoil would suck but I find this "fire around cover" ability to be the number one reason why the Future Warrior system, which also includes this technology, is going to totally rock people's socks. I've seen plenty of videos from the US Army training center with accurate shooting from behind cover by holding the weapon overhead and/or around a corner. It's single shots because of clumsy recoil, but it still gets the job done just fine.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
BGMFH
Single shots I would bet Phipps.

Im infantry myself, USMC, and RECOIL would kill in a corner shot like that.
Wounded Ronin
Well I think there's footage from the Vietnam War showing people using spray and pray tactics by holding their rifles up above cover and not looking. I don't think that's considered a viable strategy anymore, though.
WearzManySkins
There is a current US Army system, that I have seen fired around a corner, it uses smart sights etc. But the weapon is part of a system, so light and small it is not.

Remember a an elephant is a mouse built to military standards. smile.gif
psychophipps
Well, it's a lot lighter now. The total rifle package, today, runs about 10lbs with a tactical lights, low-light camera, laser sight/designator, etc. Not too shabby considering how much it will shrink by Shadowrun's timeline. Besides, that heavy log they were looking at got ditched a few years ago.

Yeah, it was single shots but one shot to the ol' nug-bone is usually more than enough, no? They also fired some fairly accurate 3-round bursts but that involved resting the weapon on a fallen tree.

The scary thing to me is the smart-grenade systems. Combine accurate around-the-corner smartgun fire with a multi-shot proximity-fused grenade launcher and you have a weapon capable of putting a lot of folks in the hurtlocker from the comfort of your handy-dandy brick wall cover. Now imagine a whole squad of hayoos packing this stuff with multi-optic goggles, effective ballistic armor and secure squad-level WANs and you start to see the real scary potential here for malice and mayhem.

Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
WearzManySkins
Well yes but who says that only one side gets the neat toys,,imagine two groups shooting around corners, launching grenades around corners too.

Will make Stealth a very desirable skill and stealth tech/magic.
Crusher Bob
Heh, better imagine cheap airborne suicide drones as well. You dump off a few and tell them to go over there and blow up.
Red Fox
so I'm going to assume that going strictly by the book, firing using smartlink guncam around a corner is just a -1 to the ol' dice pool. house rules are cool (appreciated the 'I do a -4 penalty' comment, but I aspire to run commando games so I'm trying to go by the book as completely as I can).
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