Ok the BBB has stats for three shotgun weapons.
What is the setting of the shotgun's choke set for ie narrow etc for the stats in the BBB?
Or are those stats in some kinda neutral setting?
WearzManySkins
Full Version: Shotgun Choke Settings
Narrow is the "default" choke on a shotgun and as of the new flechette rulings puts it at a +2 DV +5 AP over a slug. Medium choke becomes +0 DV +7 AP with a -2 to the opponents defense roll and Wide choke becomes -2DV +9 AP (better hope they are unarmored!) with a -4 on the defense roll.
Note this is on page 144 but doesn't take into account the new ammo rules.
Note this is on page 144 but doesn't take into account the new ammo rules.
You can also hit more then one target at the same time with a higher choke.
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ May 25 2007, 01:26 PM) |
| Narrow is the "default" choke on a shotgun and as of the new flechette rulings puts it at a +2 DV +5 AP over a slug. Medium choke becomes +0 DV +7 AP with a -2 to the opponents defense roll and Wide choke becomes -2DV +9 AP (better hope they are unarmored!) with a -4 on the defense roll. Note this is on page 144 but doesn't take into account the new ammo rules. |
New Flechette rulings? where are these? ah version 1.5 of the errata.
So narrow was +2 DV +2 AP, now becomes +2 DV +5 AP
Medium was +0 DV +4 AP, now becomes +0 DV +5 AP
Wide was -2 DV +6 AP, now becomes -2 DV, +5 AP
Interesting
So a CMDT set on Narrow firing a narrow burst is +13 DV +5 AP
Long burst narrow set on narrow choke is +16 DV +5 AP
Full burst narrow set on narrow choke is +20 DV +5 AP
Yes I know the recoil from above will be great.
Interesting...
Edit made changes to +5 AP
WearzManySkins
I had a question about shotguns that isn't related to choke settings but I'll ask it here.
Can you get stuff like Explosive Slug rounds or APDS rounds for shotguns or are you basically just limited to the choice of shot/slug? I didn't the the BBB was 100% clear on that.
Can you get stuff like Explosive Slug rounds or APDS rounds for shotguns or are you basically just limited to the choice of shot/slug? I didn't the the BBB was 100% clear on that.
You can't get anything of the sort since you're unarmed 
I would say any ammo options are available for slugs but not for flechettes.
I would say any ammo options are available for slugs but not for flechettes.
You added +2 too much AP to your figures. Old Flechette was +2DV +2AP. New Flechette is +2DV +5AP. Just add 3 to the old AP value and voila.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| So narrow was +2 DV +2 AP, now becomes +2 DV +7 AP Medium was +0 DV +4 AP, now becomes +0 DV +9 AP Wide was -2 DV +6 AP, now becomes -2 DV, +11 AP |
no, the AP didn't increase *by* 5, it increased *to* 5 for the flechettes. big difference.
| QUOTE (fool) |
| You can't get anything of the sort since you're unarmed I would say any ammo options are available for slugs but not for flechettes. |
I'm uh... asking for a friend.
| QUOTE (Unarmed) |
| I had a question about shotguns that isn't related to choke settings but I'll ask it here. Can you get stuff like Explosive Slug rounds or APDS rounds for shotguns or are you basically just limited to the choice of shot/slug? I didn't the the BBB was 100% clear on that. |
Given the way shotguns work I don't know how well an explosive round would work... probably wouldn't want to try it.
I'd stick shotguns with Flechette, normal ammo, and stick n' shock. I mean... can you even make a shotgun slug an armor piercing discarding sabot? (APDS)
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) |
| I mean... can you even make a shotgun slug an armor piercing discarding sabot? (APDS) |
How is that less believable than the same round in a hold-out pistol?
Yeah, it's called a .50 caliber slug round. Those things can go through engine blocks.
My personal favorite ammo is incendiary and Big D's Temper rounds. Flambed orc anyone?
My personal favorite ammo is incendiary and Big D's Temper rounds. Flambed orc anyone?
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) | ||
How is that less believable than the same round in a hold-out pistol? |
Yes today there is Discarding Sabot rounds for shotguns, most are in the 12 gauge size.
Making such Sabots AP is basically changing the materials in the Sabot.
WearzManySkins
yeah, shotguns are quite utilitarian, basically if it can withstand the pressure of the powder, fits in the barrel and weighs ~3-5 ounces, you can shoot it out of a shotgun.
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) |
| Given the way shotguns work I don't know how well an explosive round would work... probably wouldn't want to try it. I'd stick shotguns with Flechette, normal ammo, and stick n' shock. I mean... can you even make a shotgun slug an armor piercing discarding sabot? (APDS) |
You have a problem with explosive and APDS rounds in a shotgun, but not Stick n' shock? Is it just a magical invention that gets a Get Out Of Houserules Free card?
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) | ||
Given the way shotguns work I don't know how well an explosive round would work... probably wouldn't want to try it. I'd stick shotguns with Flechette, normal ammo, and stick n' shock. I mean... can you even make a shotgun slug an armor piercing discarding sabot? (APDS) |
i just houseruled a conversion of ammo from the cannon compaion and from street sam catalogs from versions 2
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ May 25 2007, 02:00 PM) |
| So narrow was +2 DV +2 AP, now becomes +2 DV +5 AP Medium was +0 DV +4 AP, now becomes +0 DV +5 AP Wide was -2 DV +6 AP, now becomes -2 DV, +5 AP Interesting So a CMDT set on Narrow firing a narrow burst is +13 DV +5 AP Long burst narrow set on narrow choke is +16 DV +5 AP Full burst narrow set on narrow choke is +20 DV +5 AP Yes I know the recoil from above will be great. Interesting... Edit made changes to +5 AP WearzManySkins |
Where did you take this DV from ????
+20 DV ??? Flechette reduces DV....
Edit-.... haven't read properly.
doubleposted...
What does everyone think the rules should be for Dragonfire rounds. Those Shotgun rounds that turned a shotgun into a coned flamethrower, but had a chance of warping the barrel.
Looking to build a sawed-off Double-barrel (over-under) Street-sweeper with those slugs. A.K.A. Troll-killer It would more or less be a one-shot weapon as the barrel would more than likely warp badly from the heat.
Looking to build a sawed-off Double-barrel (over-under) Street-sweeper with those slugs. A.K.A. Troll-killer It would more or less be a one-shot weapon as the barrel would more than likely warp badly from the heat.
As for exploding rounds, I don't see why a shotgun couldn't fire them. There is currently a form of ammo that essentially makes a shotgun into a mini-grenade launcher. Each shell contains a mini-grenade in it that can be fired quite acurately and very rapidly.( Woo for the TV show Future weapons)
Kazum,
Narrow setting on the shotgun's choke yields a DV +2
Narrow full burst(10 rounds) yields +9 DV
Mossberg AM-CMDT the only RAW fully automatic shotgun base damage with flechettes is 9P
So 9+2+9 is 20 DV but due to the full burst is -9 dice pool modifier with out recoil mods.
You can add a shock pad for +1 recoil mod, gas vent 3 for +3 recoil mod, and gyrostabilizaton for another recoil mod of 6 points of recoil mod.
Yes a fully automatic shotgun firing full bursts using narrow choke setting,, well call it the "Meat Grinder".
Try using that in an ambush situation, in a closed area on your player's characters.
Narrow setting on the shotgun's choke yields a DV +2
Narrow full burst(10 rounds) yields +9 DV
Mossberg AM-CMDT the only RAW fully automatic shotgun base damage with flechettes is 9P
So 9+2+9 is 20 DV but due to the full burst is -9 dice pool modifier with out recoil mods.
You can add a shock pad for +1 recoil mod, gas vent 3 for +3 recoil mod, and gyrostabilizaton for another recoil mod of 6 points of recoil mod.
Yes a fully automatic shotgun firing full bursts using narrow choke setting,, well call it the "Meat Grinder".
Try using that in an ambush situation, in a closed area on your player's characters.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| Kazum, Narrow setting on the shotgun's choke yields a DV +2 Narrow full burst(10 rounds) yields +9 DV Mossberg AM-CMDT the only RAW fully automatic shotgun base damage with flechettes is 9P So 9+2+9 is 20 DV but due to the full burst is -9 dice pool modifier with out recoil mods. You can add a shock pad for +1 recoil mod, gas vent 3 for +3 recoil mod, and gyrostabilizaton for another recoil mod of 6 points of recoil mod. Yes a fully automatic shotgun firing full bursts using narrow choke setting,, well call it the "Meat Grinder". Try using that in an ambush situation, in a closed area on your player's characters. |
Better hope you have the gyro though... uncompensated recoil for shotties is double just like heavy weapons.
I say you could have any rounds for the slug throwers. That is probably why the Mossberg only fires flachette... game balance... otherwise it is the uber exploding ammo launcher of doom... which i would not have a problem with personally.
Shotguns are very useful and flexible.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) | ||||
Yes today there is Discarding Sabot rounds for shotguns, most are in the 12 gauge size. Making such Sabots AP is basically changing the materials in the Sabot. WearzManySkins |
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ May 26 2007, 02:10 PM) |
Forget APDS, fin-stabilized 19mm slugs with shaped-charge warheads are where it's at. -karma |
Well that screams EX-explosive to me if anything did. I think I remember those being tested on futureweapons once in a nifty full auto shotgun they had.
Man those would be terrifying in an urban enviroment.... BOOM BOOM BOOM!
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno) | ||||||
|
One problem with that link....19mm is not 12 gauge, it is close to 10 gauge.
I know because I have used spreadsheets to design shotguns and weapons for a SF RPG game
Ok correction 12 gauge is .729 inches or 18.53 mm, so they are being generous in their rounding of the numbers.
10 gauge is .775 inches or 19.69 mm, so using their rounding standards a 10 gauge is a 20 mm.
Here is a link for the technically curious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_gauge
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| One problem with that link....19mm is not 12 gauge, it is close to 10 gauge. |
Actually, the sheet in the link states that "FRAG-12 rounds are made up of a standard 3-in. 12-gauge cartridge case and propellant, firing a fin-stabilized 19mm warhead
with a MIL-SPEC 1316 compliant fuze assembly."
Now I've never used a spreadsheet to design shotguns for a SF RPG game, but I think the link is valid for a discussion of 12-gauge shotgun rounds.
While I've never used a spreadsheet for it, I have done research for one of those RPG games into various 12-gauge loads available from various sources, and I can tell you that there are quite a lot of them. This one is probably the most advanced I've seen, though.
Actually I have used several spreadsheets that allowed one to design weapons and provide stats for various RPG's.
I have written some, paid for one, and downloaded others.
I have several that will allow me to design small firearms, large firearms, rockets, missiles, and explosive rounds including self forging warheads.
The biggest issue is figuring out how to convert from one system to another, but the information is out there.
Here is one link,
http://www.btrc.net/files/3g3_sr2.pdf
the PDF has some interesting stats on RL weapons from the More Guns book. Some of the weapons names will familiar to some.
I have written some, paid for one, and downloaded others.
I have several that will allow me to design small firearms, large firearms, rockets, missiles, and explosive rounds including self forging warheads.
The biggest issue is figuring out how to convert from one system to another, but the information is out there.
Here is one link,
http://www.btrc.net/files/3g3_sr2.pdf
the PDF has some interesting stats on RL weapons from the More Guns book. Some of the weapons names will familiar to some.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ May 26 2007, 07:51 PM) |
| One problem with that link....19mm is not 12 gauge, it is close to 10 gauge. I know because I have used spreadsheets to design shotguns and weapons for a SF RPG game Ok correction 12 gauge is .729 inches or 18.53 mm, so they are being generous in their rounding of the numbers. 10 gauge is .775 inches or 19.69 mm, so using their rounding standards a 10 gauge is a 20 mm. Here is a link for the technically curious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_gauge |
Perhaps that remaining .47 mm is taken up by the shotshell container?
-karma
19mm is .47mm too wide, not too narrow. if it were too narrow, no problem--like you say, you can just make the container thicker, or something. the fact that 19mm is too wide to fit into a 12ga barrel means that the slug is probably between 18.01 and 18.53mm, and they just rounded up.
Or they're including the pop-up stabilizing fins in the warhead measurement.
That ammo is probably expensive as heck. Regular shotgun rounds and breaching rounds are very cheap. Probably wouldn't be feilded to soldiers in large quantities.
Nice option for the Master Key System though.
Nice option for the Master Key System though.
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