See Wireless Signal

Detection Spell
New Sense +2
Touch -2
Sustained +0
Restricted Target(Voluntary Target)) -1

Drain Code -1

This could have some interesting effects in game

Talk about sensory overload...

No more than walking around in AR mode with all the area items sending out signals and your AR displays them for you.

Err, Der, Ooops. Me no think good when post.

it's a sensory spell. sensory spells target you, allowing you to see new things.

this spell would make you go blind. it's nothing even remotely like walking around in AR mode--you would be seeing sprays of color coming everywhere, constantly, from every direction. you woudn't be able to make sense of it, and you wouldn't be able to see anything else.

Actually I percieve it more as seeing the stars on a cloudless night in the country. Most signals would just be dots of light in the distance. You might not know if it was a Signal 0 from 3m away or a Signal 4 from 1km away as they would both appear at the same intensity. (Although wondering around a bit might give you a clue about the distance of both.) However, a strong signal nearby, (signal 6 from 40m) would white out many of the others.

Bob, that monitor in front of you is emitting points of light, your retina detects and sends those detect points of light, then sends them along the optic nerve to your visual cortex. The visual cortex "processes" the points of light into the screen with the graphics/characters on it.

Another effect of this spell in heavy wireless environment, ie signals bouncing off objects/walls etc, would be very crude ultrasound type of vision, no where the detail of Ultrasound. but would give you something.

Am I the only one not taking his three threads seriously.

Spell design looks ok, except that be looking at some of the spells in detection it would be a physical spell. So Drain = (F/2)+0

Well considering that I don't allow Mages to target spells using Ultrasound I wouldn't allow them to target anything that they could "sense" using this spell either.

In fact, wouldn't this just be a version of (Sense) Crypteshesia in Street Magic?

Well that spell and Night Vision and Thermographic spells are basically the same, but the night vision and thermographics you can target what you "see" with the spell. The Crypteshesia you can not.

But the Crypteshesia spell allows you to select a location to use the new vision, ie you could cast the Crypteshesia Wireless spell at a corner and then look around the corner with out putting yourself at risk.

My spell you would have to have your meat body look around the corner to look around it.

Thanks

WMS

True, however the fact that we have magical Low-Light & Thermo vision that allows the mage to target spells, but not an Ultrasound version is rather telling.

So no, I don't think that it is a legal spell if it allows for Magical LOS.

Ravor,

I disagree, but that to each of us.

I view Night Vision/Thermographic and Crypteshesia two vastly different spells for entirely different uses/purposes.

One set is a set of spells that gains the user vision that they do not have, but allows them to target using such vision.

The other spell allows remote viewing of an area, and using vision that the caster does not have. Being able to target around corners with out putting your meat body at risk, I can see that not being allowed.

These two spells are separate and distinct for such reasons.

Also an adept/mystic adept could have wireless vision and use it as they will, but the question is can an adept/mystic adept have ultrasound vision? If so then they can have wireless vision.

Sure a Mystic Adept could have Ultrasound or Wireless Sense, whether from cyberware, Adept Power or a Magical Spell, but she couldn't then use her new sense to gain magical LOS to cast Manabolt at someone.

Well, I think that it depends on what you mean by needing LOS. For example, a blindfolded mage couldn't cast Sterilize, Alter Temperature or a custom version of Catalog that had a range of LOS instead of Touch, but just like Fireball and its kin, once cast the spell would effect everything in its Area reguardless of what the caster could see.


Hmm, maybe not allowing Ultrasound to be used as LOS is a holdover from Third, but remember that if you allow magical Ultrasound to be used as 'vision' then you'd also have to allow cyberware Ultrasound to do the same thing, and I think I'd agrue that it still shouldn't work because I'm not so sure that Ultrasound 'Vision' is really vision and not a type of 'Hearing' that just happens to be translated as 'Vision'.

My problem with this spell is your target is wireless signals, emitted by highly technical devices. In that case, I would rule (in my game, I'm Not Your GM (INYGM)) that if this spell was allowed, you'd need at least 4 hits to overcome the object resistance table. It's not so much that you're detecting the signals, really. You're either converting them to something you can perceive (in which case the ORT applies), or modifying yourself to be able to receive these signals just like a receiver (which isn't as simple as say, adapting your eyes which already see a certain visible spectrum of light to be able to see a different spectrum of light). Either way, you're attempting to access something that your brain is truly not adapted towards.

In fact, I would probably disallow this spell on the grounds that it's bleeding over into the realm of the Technomancer, and that's supposed to be a clearly divided realm of expertise. You can be a samurai and a hacker, but mages cannot be technomancers... and this is (in my mind) an encroachment on that turf.

Having read through the relevant sections, I don't see a restriction that says magically-granted sonar/ultrasound doesn't enhance LOS for spellcasting purposes. The spells/powers that don't apply say so explicitly. For that matter, there doesn't seem to be an exemption for ultrasound provided by implants, either. The data is coordinated inside of your brain and processed as an augment to visual perception, so it seems like it would apply just as a natural/implant thermographic system would.

As for the See Wireless spell itself - while it's a validly-constructed spell, it seems pretty limited, since it makes you perceive all of the signals, rather than one/some in particular. While the magical effect would enable your brain to interpret the incoming data in some meaningful way, the wide range of frequencies covered in just the portion of the EM spectrum used for wireless communication, added to their ubiquitous use in 2070 civilization would mean you need to get a good amount of hits on the cast test to really get anything useful from your newfound ability to perceive them (suggested Detection Table results below). Assuming you got enough hits to even allow you to pinpoint a target with your EM-sense active, off-hand I calculate you'd be facing at least a -6 visibility penalty to target an individual with any sort of offensive move (ranged attack, melee, or spell) - which doesn't take into account the -2 for sustaining this spell in the first place (unless you've got a focus) or any other penalties that'd apply from your other visual senses, wounds, etc.

Detection Table Results (See Wireless Signals)
---------------------------
1 - You can see the portion EM spectrum used in wireless device broadcasts
2 - You can see that it's made up of alot of different signals, but can't really differentiate between them too well (instead of a flickering omnidirectional glare, you can see different "colors")
3 - You can make out individual signals and gauge their relative strengths. You might even recognize types of devices by their signals, if you've seen them before.
4+ - You can pinpoint individual signals and where they originate from (naturally, this also lets you associate a particular signal profile with a particular type of device).

I do have to ask - what practical use, if any, did you envision for this spell (not saying any of them have to have one, I'm actually curious)? While being able to "see" radio waves would be cool and all, the situations where this would come in handy are difficult to imagine. And in every one I can think of, it seems strange that anyone would choose to only have this method available to get around it when there are better options that would also be useful in other situations, as well.

Technically speaking I see no problem for letting an Adept or Mystic adept use the �Improved Sense� ability to see different visual spectrums. If low-light and Thermographic then Infrared and Ultraviolet vision would not be impossible either.

See here: http://www.hf.faa.gov/webtraining/VisualDi...manVisSys2a.htm

I can very well imagine a character that can see radio waves and electric waves. In the case of “seeing� radio waves I would have the character roll Perception instead of EW+Scan in order to find a specific signal.

It could make a very interesting character – a hacker that has an ability no technomancer has for example.


EDIT

Damn, posted ion wrong thread earlier.

I agree with mfb.

It would be like putting on low-light goggles and standing in front of stadium lighting...

Adding some RL physics.

All emitted waveforms radio, IR, UV, RF, microwave are made up of photons. Yes radio and visual light photons have different properties but they are still made up of photons.

This spell is a detection spell, it uses the detection spell successes table.

Each source of signal would/could have a different "color" so to speak, and the same for encrypted signals.

The spectrum for WiFi and blue tooth are limited in a specific range of frequencies lets say 2.6 Ghz to 3.0 Ghz.

In the visual spectrum, light is being reflected all most everything.

As for the glare I guess I will have to build in flare comp.

Mostly this spell is to prove a point, wireless can be "seen", then the magical LOS can be used to target it.

TonkaTuff very nice table.

I see no problem with this, it's a cool idea. The signals used by wireless technology is just a different set of wavelengths than visible light, and if thermovision is possible, so should "radiovision" be possible.
Since this most resembles the Thermographic vision spell, and that spell does not state that what you see using that spell cannot be targeted (like clairvoyance and cryptesthesia does), you can. However, recognizing which signal belongs to which device would be next to impossible, especially in crowded areas. Though if you can see the transmitter of a device (with your regular vision), you can probably tell which signals originate there.

As for the glare problem, the same thing could be said about thermographic vision, or even regular vision. The outside is on a sunny day flooded with radiation from the visible part of the spectrum, but that doesn't keep us from seeing stuff. The wireless signals would be more like looking at a room filled with colored candles, than a stadium light, unless you are staring straight at a radiomast or something.

MFB you are referring to the use a AM there is also FM. You can also bring into phase shifting and other exotica of radio signal transmission.

Hope this hasn't already been brought up. I'm trying to read all this, but I'm starting to glaze:
In old editions, magic could not provide line-of-sight. Of course, then that got all messed up an a FAQ about invisible doors, but you could not, for example, use clairvoyance to target spells. AFAIK this quote hasn't been repeated in 4th ed, which is a shame, because I always felt it was a very good idea that "Magic can not provide LOS."
Oh well.

A problem with seeing by WIFI is that the wavelength of the photon of a 3ghz connection is 100 meters, that means you couldn't resolve any item to less than 100 meters. As a rough rule of thumb, a particle can only probe down to distances equal to the particle's wavelength.

I think that it makes perfect sense to allow a spell to see radio sources, but you would have trouble other than knowing there are blobs here or there. Unless you start using shorter wavelengths, but then you don't have as many sources for that.

here is a link

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-wavelength.htm

3 gig hertz is 0.0999 meters or 9.9931 cm.

Also 3 gig hertz is 3000000000. Looks like you were using 1 mega hertz.

Ah, I was off by a factor of 1000, the resolution would be 100 mm. I apologize.

A couple other factors to consider.

1.) Wifi radiates and isn't a point to point beam
2.) Except for dead zones, most areas would be saturated by wifi, natural and other radio waveforms. ( Basically looking directly at a flash bang.)

The physics on how radio waves function and how a magical ability that lets you see it might not be the same thing. I can very much imagine that wi/fi vision would see the signal source, not the signal in itself.

Depending on signal strength it might be brighter or dimmer. Walking down the streets of seattle might have thousand of tiny pinpricks of light from tags and small candle lights from commlinks, and signal towers might be more like miniature suns.