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Zen Shooter01
I've noticed that many dumpshockers think that social skills are unbalanced. I wanted to say a few things about that.

Social skills are really important in any setting that's even slightly realistic. Even in places like real world Mogadishu or South Central LA, social encounters outnumber combat encounters by a wide margin. Social skills are how people get along.

The average citizen of the 6th World is a Face. Not a very good one, but a Face nonetheless. They use their social skills more often than any other skill they've got, any time they speak - or don't speak, because that gives a social impression, too. Social skills are essential to any character to keep people from calling the police. Seriously, calling the police. Walk into any 7-Eleven and say as much weird, spooky sh!t as you can think of, see what happens.

That said, though, don't hesitate as the GM to pile on the negative social skill modifiers. If a PC is asking someone to do something that will land them in jail, don't be afraid of saying minus 10. The first paragraph under Social Modifiers in SR4, pg. 122, says the gamemaster should apply modifiers as he feels appropriate.

And don't be afraid to make social rolls into extended tests. If you walk up to a stranger at a party and tell them to kill their children with poison, you're not going to get very far. But if you take them down to Jonestown and brainwash them thoroughly for a year, you can get a different result.

And don't forget about reputation - being influential in and of itself can make people hate you. Think of Britney Spears, Osama Bin Laden, Hillary Clinton. These are all widely influential and widely admired people who are also widely despised. If a PC can make people jump out the window by suggesting it to them, anyone who's seen it happen is likely to be suspicious of the character (or regard the character as a god).
Moon-Hawk
I can't speak for anyone else, but I think the #1 reason people have negative feelings towards social adepts is because, for some reason, the regular caps are trivially easy to blow past for social skills.
Any other skill you're running up against the attribute cap, the skill cap, and then scraping up a few points of bonuses here and there.
Social skills have many, many sources that qualify as bonuses and aren't affected by any of the caps, and thus you create Mango, the Pornomancer.
lunchbox311
Negotiation Basics
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (lunchbox311)
Negotiation Basics

Lunchbox311

Why do I have to login to view that link you posted?

WMS
sunnyside
@lunch. Avoid the URL tags here. They do retarded stuff and clinking on your link doesn't work. I had to pull the link out by using the quote option. Also, if you wrote that you'll want to grammar check it.

For skins and others

EDIT: hold on this forum is retarded with URLs

EDIT#2: here you go
lunchbox311
My bad.... did not check the link ahead of time. BTW: no, I did not write it, it was from an RSS feed I was checking.

*shrug*
sorry

Edit: Thanks for the fix, I was about to just copy paste in a spoiler tag. Just nice fluff is all.
sunnyside
Some people have a problem with the huge social dice pools that can come up. However with some of the magic spells out there I don't really have a problem with that. Usually those mega pools involve magic and all sorts of other stuff.

I think the real problem people have with the social skills/spells is that they can be annoying in how they interact with an adventure.

For example in many RPGs the combat skills get out of control. But that's easy to fix in the writing. Just get better guards/drones. And SR is deadly enough just throwing in a single fairly unspecial sniper will often give even experienced teams a nasty encounter.

But social skills/spells in SR get to the point where you either have to

A. Let them talk the guard into going and getting what they want for them. A bit extreme but spells can pretty much do that, social skills too when you get down to it. Bottom line is if you aren't careful scenes get spoiled.

B. Nerfing the skills they paid a ton for. (doesn't matter how you phrase it, if they pay a ton of BP for special abilities and all that, and you do something so they can't do stuff way more impressive than others who haven't, then you're bending them over and shoving the nerf sword all the way in.) The spells don't take so many BP but the same deal there.

C. Constantly treat people like drones/comlinks with firewall 2. So for example guards on an inner door won't let guards from an outer door even get near them. Johnsons are monitored by remote hackers looking for weirdness and have hard spending limits. etc etc etc. Which is kind of a blend of A and B.
Glyph
To me, the biggest problem with social skills is GMs who allow characters to roll their social skills for ridiculous things, rather than treating them as the subtle form of influence that they are. For instance, in negotiating with a Johnson, the team always has the option of walking away from the job, and the Johnson has a hard limit on what he can offer to the group.

Like Zen said, don't be afraid to pile on modifiers or make things extended tests. And don't be afraid to veto the more extreme attempts - social skills aren't mind control. If Mongo the ork face tries to pick up the frigid lesbian who is a closet humanis policlub member, it ain't gonna happen.
Geekkake
Similar to what Zen and Cain already said, the negative modifiers can pile up quickly in a social situation. The best example is the security guard of the facility you're attempting to infiltrate. For instance, take the place that I work; management is dead-obsessed with security. If you even hold the door for someone without seeing them scan their badge, that's an immediate write-up, and they don't fuck around with write-ups prior to firing. So right there, that's "Harmful to NPC" and/or "Disastrous to NPC", depending on how much I like my job, a -3 to -4 modifier. If I can't see the person's badge when they're trying to get in the door, I'm immediately suspicious (-2 mod) because everyone's supposed to wear it around their neck on a lanyard. There's an easy -5 to -6 modifier, and I don't even like my job. Moreover, my building doesn't require the excessive security measures present.

Add that to the fact that the security guards are always watching the front door and giving shit for basic common courtesy (holding the door), and that every inch of the building is watched by cameras despite the relatively low-security situation I work in, and you can see how social rolls won't (in the case of infiltration) really help. And while every corp overlord won't be a crazed, conspiracy-spouting Vietnam vet like mine is, it's easy to see how problems can mount.

Of course, none of this applies to, say, getting more money for fenced gear, or buying for cheaper, but the easiest way to look at it is, no matter how disarming a social adept is, no one's going to ruin their livelihood to support it. Maybe you can get that AK for well below market price, because you're such a great friend, but the seller is going to expect a favor later on.
Crusher Bob
Of course, the real problem is that SR4 is an esentially linear system. Assuming it will take, say, 4 sucesses to convince you to do something (You had no strong feelings either way and someone threw 12 dice at you).

Now, the pronomancer adept walks up and tries to talk you into something. Your suspicion gives him -6 dice but he still has at least 12 dice left over to convince you with.

The solution is probably based in changing the requirements to convince someone to do something, so that the pronomancer can brainwash you in a mere week with less dedicated social monsters taking months.

Anothe thing possibly worth borrowing is intimacies and motivation from Exalted. They are what motivates your character and what he cares about and social skills making you do something in relation to them are much harder (or easier).
Geekkake
I don't have the sobriety or patience to research: are there no sex-based detriments to the quote "pornomancer"? Or don't I understand the concept? Because frankly, I don't care how hot he is, I'm just not interested.
Critias
QUOTE (Geekkake)
Add that to the fact that the security guards are always watching the front door and giving shit for basic common courtesy (holding the door), and that every inch of the building is watched by cameras despite the relatively low-security situation I work in, and you can see how social rolls won't (in the case of infiltration) really help. And while every corp overlord won't be a crazed, conspiracy-spouting Vietnam vet like mine is, it's easy to see how problems can mount.

Which is why social skills alone aren't the answer to every problem, no matter how many dice you can fling. I work in a similarly secured area (we're just a shipping company, but we're at the local airport), and while it's true you can't just waltz up and flash a smile to get into the building, there are still ways you could manage it...some, though, rely on *GASP* teamwork.

Have the team's decker send a fake email to security, telling them about a few out-of-town bigwigs coming by that day that are in a big hurry...and then get the rest of the team in by buying decent suits and still letting the Face do the talking when you hit the security desk. If the office executive has sent the security mook specific instructions telling them to let these upstanding VP's from other offices in for a tour of the building, suddenly several of those die penalties for paranoia and suspicion and "outcome harmful to the NPC" have been flip flopped; pissing off the boss that gave security notice about the team's arrival would be harmful, wouldn't it? If you can use the corporate chain of command against them, the peons at the bottom will outright dance for you.

And that's not even hitting the old standby of nondescript jumpsuits with a few logos on them, and being the cleaning crew or delivering a package or repairing the plumbing or junk like that (which would still normally fall under some mixture of negotiations and disguise).

It's one thing for the Face to think he can just waltz up to any security guard in the game, grin real big, fling some dice, and saunter past a checkpoint. If the team's willing to get a little creative with it, though, work on some fake credentials and invest in a few basic props, the ridiculousness of Social Skills (and their success ratio) becomes a bit more manageable. Get the whole team involved, and suddenly you're getting into what Shadowrun is all about...and it won't be any big deal that most of the talking still gets handled by one person. The team is getting the job done.
Glyph
QUOTE (Geekkake)
I don't have the sobriety or patience to research: are there no sex-based detriments to the quote "pornomancer"? Or don't I understand the concept? Because frankly, I don't care how hot he is, I'm just not interested.

That's the problem I alluded to earlier - GMs who, instead of saying "No, I don't think so," say "Okay, that'll be -6 dice". Then the face rolls his umpteen remaining dice and turns the hetero ganger gay, or the gay ganger straight, or has the Johnson give him the keys to his limo. Things like your security guard description are a good example of negative modifiers in a situation where the face could still possibly schmooze his way through (albeit with a great deal of difficulty).

Here's a relevant quote from the Reasonable Dice Pools thread:

QUOTE (sunnyside)

Personally I require certain conditions to even be able to try a roll. For example to use the run skill I would require something to run on. Running through the air or over water isn't an option. Similarly someone couldn't sneak accross, for example, a wide open empty football field. Where Mr. Sneakalots huge dice pool would come into play is if a lawn tending drone started making it's way up and down the field, and there is a tiny chance someone could stay on their hands and knees so the camera couldn't see them behind the drone as it goes across the field or somesuch.


I would deal with social skills the same way. Fast-talking your way past the club bouncer? Getting extra pay from the Johnson? Getting that troll to let you walk by without getting beat up? Roll dem bones. But an attempted social action should have a modicrum of plausibility to it.
Geekkake
This plays into a basic question of RPGs: Should anything be possible with a fantastic enough dice roll? I'm generally a proponent of the "shit yes, but it better be, y'know, fucking amazing" school of thought. So make your own penalties based on those circumstances. It ain't canon, and some kids are gonna object. But really, there's holes and breaks in every system, and it's up to the GM to spackle them when need be, and committee the ruling later.

So toss another huge penalty on a Seduction roll for turning a straight ganger gay. Naturally, even remotely turning an eyebrow would be absolutely Disastrous, so there's another -4, and maybe add another -N for the guy being, y'know, straight.

[edit]: Ultimately, I think Critias has the right of it, with regards to teamwork. But it's a rare, and indispensable team that looks at things that way.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Glyph)
QUOTE (Geekkake)
I don't have the sobriety or patience to research: are there no sex-based detriments to the quote "pornomancer"? Or don't I understand the concept? Because frankly, I don't care how hot he is, I'm just not interested.

That's the problem I alluded to earlier - GMs who, instead of saying "No, I don't think so," say "Okay, that'll be -6 dice". Then the face rolls his umpteen remaining dice and turns the hetero ganger gay, or the gay ganger straight, or has the Johnson give him the keys to his limo. Things like your security guard description are a good example of negative modifiers in a situation where the face could still possibly schmooze his way through (albeit with a great deal of difficulty).

Here's a relevant quote from the Reasonable Dice Pools thread:

QUOTE (sunnyside)

Personally I require certain conditions to even be able to try a roll. For example to use the run skill I would require something to run on. Running through the air or over water isn't an option. Similarly someone couldn't sneak accross, for example, a wide open empty football field. Where Mr. Sneakalots huge dice pool would come into play is if a lawn tending drone started making it's way up and down the field, and there is a tiny chance someone could stay on their hands and knees so the camera couldn't see them behind the drone as it goes across the field or somesuch.


I would deal with social skills the same way. Fast-talking your way past the club bouncer? Getting extra pay from the Johnson? Getting that troll to let you walk by without getting beat up? Roll dem bones. But an attempted social action should have a modicrum of plausibility to it.

Yeah, I have to agree on that. Still, there are times when you could let the social adept try... and fail miserably. A couple of situations come to mind... ah, from the old "Urban Scavenger Hunt" thread:

QUOTE (Whiskeymac)
Getting into the Eye of the Needle with just your charm wearing a wifebeater and a pair of smiley face boxers


or

QUOTE (fool)
An elf getting Lord Trogo's autograph


Those would be giggle-worthy, if for nothing else, to get to watch the player's face as the modifiers stack up...
Critias
QUOTE (Geekkake)
This plays into a basic question of RPGs: Should anything be possible with a fantastic enough dice roll?

The answer to the question varies wildly from game to game, and GM to GM...and is really something most aspiring groups should mention and hammer out as soon as they sit down for chargen. It's important enough to people and their ability to enjoy the game (GM certainly included) that there should be a general concensus on it before gameplay even starts.

If one guy is trying to make a serious, real-life based, tactical operator with all sorts of high tech gear and another player just loves Street Fighter and is out to make a 2D fighting game character that travels the world to show off his kung fu, and the third is a zany anime fan who's trying to make a magical elven princess...all while the GM is wanting to run a gritty street-level gutter game? The group falls apart, the game is a wreck, and everyone walks away from each session without having enjoyed themselves very much.

I've long been of the opinion that, right there with the build point amounts for some games, the character level in d20 games, or whatever -- going over the basic rules of the game universe and desired feel of the game is something every group should do before a single die is rolled. Everyone being on the same level when it comes to desired realism is just as important as everyone starting with the same character points, etc.
Geekkake
I think Critias, again, raises a good point. Of course, if you have a group described in his example, it's doomed to failure anyway. I was being a bit chauvinistic, I realize, toward my own style of gameplay - which is to say, generally "realistic", with a smidge of cinematic if the players want to really risk their characters' lives to make it happen by attempting crazy dice rolls.

Sorry for the confusion.
sunnyside
I think the team method is what we all would like to see happen.

Which is where I think the range of skills availible comes into problems, because the super skills move people away from the neccesity of a team effort.

Remember there is mind control in the game. Magic has influence, alter memory, control emotion. lotsa fun so people do what you want and don't think they were manipulated. This is kept somewhat in check because people might notice the magician casting the spell, or some astral security might notice the effects of the spell on the person, etc etc. But magic is capable of messing with peoples free will.

So where does that leave the 30 die of a social adept? Remember they can change their appearance at will, including skin color and their voice. That allows for a lot.

And 30 dice? The real world has seen nothing like 30 dice on a social test. The most stunning mundane ever probably rolled 15.

The problem as I see it, is that if someone throws their stuff into incredible combat or movement abilities the GM doesn't have a problem with it. Especially if the effects aren't related to a die pool. You can act three times in the time it would take someone to act once? Cool. You can run up walls or walk on powdered snow without leaving a trail? Nice. Even other applications of large combat pools or exagerated circumstances slide by. For example the sniper who can headshot a running target at 3/4 of a mile over iron sights , without zooming in, and while wounded (maybe -10 modifier vs a 20 die pool).

But doing something even more incredible than that socially blows their mind. And if they did allow the stuff to work it would probably hurt team play. And the char in question would be one dimensional.

Personally I say just talk your players out of being the superface. Have them only allocate a handfull of resources to it and then put the rest into combat and infiltration or something.
lunchbox311
QUOTE (Critias)
one guy is trying to make a serious, real-life based, tactical operator with all sorts of high tech gear and another player just loves Street Fighter and is out to make a 2D fighting game character that travels the world to show off his kung fu, and the third is a zany anime fan who's trying to make a magical elven princess...all while the GM is wanting to run a gritty street-level gutter game

You just described my group half the time. ohplease.gif
Critias
QUOTE (lunchbox311)
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 19 2007, 01:40 AM)
one guy is trying to make a serious, real-life based, tactical operator with all sorts of high tech gear and another player just loves Street Fighter and is out to make a 2D fighting game character that travels the world to show off his kung fu, and the third is a zany anime fan who's trying to make a magical elven princess...all while the GM is wanting to run a gritty street-level gutter game

You just described my group half the time. ohplease.gif

Which is, honestly, one of the problems with the system (unless it's addressed at chargen, or hopefully even before). Each and every one of those characters could fit in just fine, and still be completely canon, within the realms of possibility presented to us in Shadowrun (in any edition).

The problem is that each one requires a certain, varying, level of the suspension of disbelief (and a certain, varying, level of GM involvement and hand-waving away the laws of physics). The Ryu-wannabe won't be happy sneaking into a warehouse to murder someone, the Sam Fischer guy isn't going to be thrilled about a trip to visit the Seelie Court, the GM is going to want to murder someone when the happy magical Elf Princess starts tossing out Treat spells to every sore-riddled vagrant they see with a giggle and a wave of her magic wand, and aforementioned Happy Elf Princess is probably not going to take it well when the GM has he gang raped by a bunch of trolls.

In their own game, each would be a fine and viable character. It's trying to take a little from each one and toss it into one big game where the problems occur. It's all about where you want to set the limit for what the dice do, versus how the game world responds. Social skills aren't any different. If the GM makes it clear from the get go just how outrageous and unrealistic certain things can be, there shouldn't be any hurt feelings during gameplay once the dice start to clatter.
Moon-Hawk
Like they say on Fear the Boot. (no, I'm not affiliated, but I hightly recommend the podcast) 90% of games that fail, do so because they failed at the group template level.
It doesn't matter what you're playing, before you make characters everyone needs to sit down together and have a conversation about what type of game they want to play, and how (basically) they want their characters to interact.
It's not a problem with this system, it's something that's true of any system.
djinni
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Like they say on Fear the Boot. (no, I'm not affiliated, but I hightly recommend the podcast) 90% of games that fail, do so because they failed at the group template level.
It doesn't matter what you're playing, before you make characters everyone needs to sit down together and have a conversation about what type of game they want to play, and how (basically) they want their characters to interact.
It's not a problem with this system, it's something that's true of any system.

yep yep...
something that people don't do, and even when asked they usually shrug off the notion...
Zolhex
I have a player who plays a social adept he does real good yes and he plays the character quite well.

However because he is a major social player he can't even go to clubs with out making contacts. true they are mostly 1/1 contacts but hey once you get a contact you need to work them to keep them.

Ok granted he could just say screw it and they would disappear but then that gets around and he runs the risk people think of him as a user not a contact thus people don't want to deal with him.

My player has like 40 or 50 contacts???? (Jump in here Magus if you read this.) I mean come on he is dumping nuyen left and right when I make him to keep everyone happy. Now while I've not been hard core on making him keep them happy you as a gm could do so with your players. trust me after a short time of them paying through the teeth they will want a new character.

My current thoughts are that Magus is retireing his guy partly cause he has contacts all over the world and so he makes a better fixer than runner but also the costs he could face keeping them happy in game.

So social adepts are cool but not that great to play after sometime. Play a regular joe with some negotiation and some etiquette. Or play an uncouth character and screw the skills rotfl.gif
Buster
You lost me on the last post. You're allowing players to buy contacts with cash? How does that work exactly?
Glyph
I think he's talking about contact upkeep.
Zen Shooter01
Casazil has a point about superfaces. If you're throwing 25 dice on your social skills, you're going to acquire a cult. People are going to fall in love with you when you ask them where the bathroom is. And that can get to be a problem. Ask any rock star. Also, anybody with that kind of magnetism cannot hide in a crowd. "Did you see Cameron Diaz to the second power walk through here?"

On the other hand, 25 social dice are of little value when somebody shoots you in the back. Any highly specialized character is going to have weaknesses like that. I've never liked the GM technique of inventing gimps to hobble specialists. Just confront them with problems that aren't their speciality.

Casazil: when do you do your thing at Sci Fi City?
Zolhex
@ Buster via Glyph
I think he's talking about contact upkeep.

You are correct. Contact upkeep can really drain that hard earned cash.

@ Zen Shooter01 For the time being I'll be available at Sci-Fi City the 2nd Saturday of the month. This will be true till like September when we get another 5 Saturday month so as long as I don't get bust with Halloween Horror Nights eek.gif rotfl.gif nyahnyah.gif October will see me back to the first Saturday of the month.

Have to work around the ol home game don't ya know.
Magus
Yes that is my Social Adept Cas is talking about. We just finished a round the world trip/campaign, whereas it was lucrative I do spend a lot of money keeping up the playboy demeanor. I go to a club and by my sheer magnetism I walk out with 10 or so level 1 contacts. By spending nuyen taking them out schmoozing them and in some case if they are female sleeping with them I push thier loyalty/connection rating up. So I am a Karma whore as well as a money sink. When we go into a meet I try and push the envelope for what the J is going to pay us and then try and push for at least 50% upfront. I usually get it. Silk is an elven face with a 7 charisma 4 Social Group and 5 Kinsitics (sp?) I also took 2 ranks in Improved skill Con and Negotiation as well as Quality First Impression. I can throw down some social dice Despite social modifiers. Plus I took the Human Looking Quality to cut down on my Elven to Human social mods. I have a separate sheet in excel just for contacts. He has multiple contacts world wide from Finacial to Legal down to serves and joygirls. He is fun to play, but sometimes it gets a little boring. Silk has little to no combat value, so I mainly fall back on my chameleon suit and Stealth skills to follow the gun bunny.
Buster
QUOTE (Casazil)
@ Buster via Glyph
I think he's talking about contact upkeep.

You are correct. Contact upkeep can really drain that hard earned cash.

I can't find the rules on contact upkeep, do you have a page number?
adamu
@Buster - it was in SR3 that they attached hard numbers to it. But it's a good concept to keep in mind whatever the game/edition.
adamu
Maybe I'll just throw in a comment here.

It encompasses some of the excellent points already made, but I think offers a new observation.

I was once playing table top with a very experienced group of gamers playing quite advanced shadowrunners. These guys knocked over high security facilities or took on similar challenges on a weekly basis.

And then one week, just as part of the rising action of the story, they had to get at a box which was sitting on a shelf in plain sight behind the bar at some average, working class tavern. Regular bar staff.

No big deal, right?

Well, damn me to munchkin hell if they didn't have a harder time getting that box than taking out a nosferatu den. Whatever idea they came up with, players and GM alike had endless thoughts on all the things that could and probably should go wrong. All the schemes they thought of were generally deemed "unrealistic."

The problem was, we had all been in bars. We had all known bartenders. It was so close to our real-life experience that we our conception of the scene was so rich in detail and verisimilitude that we were hyper-aware of every potential pitfall - nitty-gritty stuff that never crossed our minds when conning Mafia dons.

And that is basically my illustration of the earlier point that sammies are allowed to have a zillion dice for shooting people in the face and making them DEAD, but we balk at Faces having that many dice for talking to people and just making them HAPPY.
It is because talking to people and trying to persuade them of things is a part of our daily lives. It is immediately real to us to the point where we are acutely, sometimes painfully, aware of the limitations - much much more so than most of us are cognizant of the upper limits on firearms performance, and infinitely more so than any of us are invested in the maximum potential of powerbolt casting.

Thus, we are that much quicker to say "No way - you can't do that" to a face than to a rigger or a hacker.
Critias
Some of us gripe occasionally about the Sammies having a zillion dice and shooting folks, too. Or, at the least, we try to post descriptions of those face-shootings and declare our actions in such a way that will reconcile the weird-ass firearm/damage rules in Shadowrun with real life a little bit better.

Just...piping in. smile.gif
Zolhex
Yeah there are no real guidelines anymore.

Think about it like this you have friends and granted you don't need to do something with them everyday or heck even every month (would be nice if the sims creators got that concept) but at the least a phone call helps keep you in touch.

Now with shadowrun stop and think why did you get the contact?

local contacts:

Ok so you live near the person call them up once a month at the least they will remember you and might help out if they can.

On the other hand take them out to dinner once a month and do some other stuff 1 or 2 times a month and your a good friend you call they say hey what's biz?

Lastly you sleep with them (Silks good at this one rotfl.gif ) ok now you need to do dinner at least 2 times a month and weekly calls buy some gifts and do other activities.

Non-local:

Calls are a must and when in the area stop by if only to talk for a bit if time allows go to dinner.

As for other things to do for long distance contacts maybe when you do a job and you find out something big check to see if ones of your contacts abroad needs to know asap. (mind you wait till after your done and been paid leaks before could hurt the payout)

No matter the contact food and fun always on your dime. the closer the relationship the more you should do close is a night out at a club real close is a night out at a the top night club in the city. Maybe even a hop to the next nearest city should there be a better one close by.
Critias
QUOTE (Casazil)
No matter the contact food and fun always on your dime. the closer the relationship the more you should do close is a night out at a club real close is a night out at a the top night club in the city. Maybe even a hop to the next nearest city should there be a better one close by.

Which has always struck me as funny. Because, if that person (PC or NPC) had a character sheet, wouldn't you, the PC, be listed on it as a "contact" of theirs? So why are all relationships in-game so horribly one sided? You buy them dinner and give them presents all the time, in exchange for them occasionally giving you some advice or giving your work...

...oh, wait, isn't "giving you work" really more like "them asking a favor of you," in a way? Aren't YOU one of THEIR contacts, which means THEY should be buying YOU dinner and calling YOU to say hello?

It's just a weird system, I think. When a GM constantly describes it as the Shadowrunner PC showering this person with presents in exchange for the honor of keeping them on his character sheet, they sound less and less like contacts and more and more like spoiled high school girls he's trying to keep going steady with. It's a wholly one-sided relationship, as described. Every now and then maybe a GM should mention a contact taking a player out for dinner, or remembering a player's birthday, or asking a player for information (for some reason they refuse to go into).

Bein' a Contact is a two way street.
Ravor
QUOTE (Critias)
Bein' a Contact is a two way street.


Seconded.
Zolhex
Tis true good sir I whole heartedly agree with your point.

Guess that's why Silk is now a contact for one of Magus's other characters lol.

But yeah I see a definite need for a better balance between character/contact relationships I just work with the concepts I have.
Zen Shooter01
No way in frozen hell my contacts know my birthday.
Critias
QUOTE (Zen Shooter01)
No way in frozen hell my contacts know my birthday.

They might know a birthday, though. Hell, tell 'em all it's April 1st. Everyone will remember it (and make clever little jokes), and the whole time they're showering you with presents you can have fun trying to keep a straight face at the elaborate prank.
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