Full Version: Format of plot books
Wasn't there some kind of SR Atlas project?
German only, I think.
Bummer, 'cause I would have paid for it.
Bummer, 'cause I would have paid for it.
| QUOTE (bclements) |
| German only, I think. Bummer, 'cause I would have paid for it. |
Yeah, that would have been worth while.
| QUOTE |
| I also encourage GMs to break canon and not to worry about it. I did it all the time in games I GMed, even going against canon I had written. The canon is there to provide a basic framework and an ongoing story but it's not there to lock anyone down into it. |
Amen to that. I've already decided that my personal shadowrun world still has some of the AIs in it. That's because I've already run a post-crash 2.0 game that centered around Mirage's cracked directive to 'protect the united states from all threats, foreign and domestic," Ex Pacis having been JackBNimbled, and the remnants of Megarea trying to re-form in the new net.
Frankly, anything published that contradicts what you want to do can (and should) be tossed out.
Although atlases are not plotbooks either, and thus technically are outside the scope of this thread 
It sounds like one solution which might appeal to most in this thread is to release one significant, almanac-type book with key atlas maps -- and it could probably be priced very high -- and to supplement a few key countries and world-sweeping events with (event or setting) plotbooks, focusing on scenario rather than specific PC role to bring about canon. Add a sprinkling of track-style plotbooks for maximal cherrypicking opportunities, the kind that are flexible enough to be widely translatable. (For example, Mob War worked particularly well, because most campaigns already have mob involvement in the background.) Minimally linear is desirable, but not always essential in something well constructed.
It sounds like one solution which might appeal to most in this thread is to release one significant, almanac-type book with key atlas maps -- and it could probably be priced very high -- and to supplement a few key countries and world-sweeping events with (event or setting) plotbooks, focusing on scenario rather than specific PC role to bring about canon. Add a sprinkling of track-style plotbooks for maximal cherrypicking opportunities, the kind that are flexible enough to be widely translatable. (For example, Mob War worked particularly well, because most campaigns already have mob involvement in the background.) Minimally linear is desirable, but not always essential in something well constructed.
| QUOTE |
| Frankly, anything published that contradicts what you want to do can (and should) be tossed out. - Adarael |
As long as our niche market purchases it first!
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 6 2007, 07:37 PM) |
| Well, making the whereabouts of the great AIs a cliffhanger in System Failure and then blatantly state that they are gone for good in Emergence was a bit... brutal, even for retconning. |
What Emergence says is that the great AIs of yester year died with the old Matrix. All that means is that they are gone from the current Matrix and they have ceased to be—at least in the forms we are used to thinking of them.
that is a succinct restatement of Rotbart's complaint.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| that is a succinct restatement of Rotbart's complaint. |
But Synner's point is that they aren't necessarily dead and buried. They just are no longer the god like monstrosities that players could do nothing with but standing by and watch the fight.
And, personally, I like it that way. It makes them vulnerable to a certain extent, more a reasonable opponent than a Dues ex Machina.
Not really.
Edit: sigh, to mfb's post. Can I ever tell that most of you are using broadband.
And change doesn't necessarily translate to increased vulnerability.
Edit: sigh, to mfb's post. Can I ever tell that most of you are using broadband.
And change doesn't necessarily translate to increased vulnerability.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Not really. Edit: sigh, to mfb's post. Can I ever tell that most of you are using broadband. And change doesn't necessarily translate to increased vulnerability. |
I wondered for a second there
Vulnerability in this case only means that they are no longer able to crush a team with their pinky. They need a full fist now.
AIs are no longer monolithic unstoppable forces. They are now compartmentalized entities which are very strong in every place that they are.
Before Deus was a juggernaut plot device. You either lost or got out of its way. In SR4, each AI has a number of avatars - each one powerful but capable of being defeated, even destoyed.
So you could quite plausibly fight Deus in SR4. A single node or group of nodes would have Deus copies and be very skilled and possible to overcome. If you won (by any of a number of means), Deus would no longer exist on those nodes, but may still exist on other nodes to fight later. The AI has gone from the Deus Ex Machina to Skeletor - the villain you can potentially defeat in climactic battle every adventure.
-Frank
Before Deus was a juggernaut plot device. You either lost or got out of its way. In SR4, each AI has a number of avatars - each one powerful but capable of being defeated, even destoyed.
So you could quite plausibly fight Deus in SR4. A single node or group of nodes would have Deus copies and be very skilled and possible to overcome. If you won (by any of a number of means), Deus would no longer exist on those nodes, but may still exist on other nodes to fight later. The AI has gone from the Deus Ex Machina to Skeletor - the villain you can potentially defeat in climactic battle every adventure.
-Frank
| QUOTE (Rifleman) | ||
But Synner's point is that they aren't necessarily dead and buried. |
Emergence flat out states that they 'died'.
Not really the wording for 'they aren't really gone, just fragemented'.
| QUOTE (Rifleman) |
| But Synner's point is that they aren't necessarily dead and buried. |
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| What Emergence says is that the great AIs of yester year died with the old Matrix. |
the information in Emergence doesn't indicate, to me, that Deus, Megaera, Mirage, and the rest are no longer monolithic, unstoppable forces--it indicates to me that they're gone. if it turns out later that they've just been in hiding or whatever, fine, but that's not at all the impression that's given.
Let's keep to the book, for simplicity:
| QUOTE (Emergence @ p. 76, The secret History of AIs) |
| The Crash 2.0 was the end for all of the god-like AIs of the past (Deus, Megaera, Mirage, etc.), who died along with the Matrix. |
After 'the end' and 'died', I guess, the authors of Emergence made their point quite clear.
Two words just to mess with your mind: Reincarnation and Transcendence. Dunklezahn is dead and gone too. Death, as many things in life, can be a question of perspective.
I'd be happy to agree with you if this would be ingame text. However, it isn't, and Game Information should be cut & dried.
It's not that I'm shocked that they are gone - just disappointed to get told five years after the fact.
It's not that I'm shocked that they are gone - just disappointed to get told five years after the fact.
Would you like me to point out where several books say Dunklezahn is dead in the Game Information?
If you are asking that way... yes, I would, thanks.
(Keep in mind that this doesn't solve the disappointment about the delay, but would only add new one about old canon inconsistencies having to serve as excuses for new ones...)
(Keep in mind that this doesn't solve the disappointment about the delay, but would only add new one about old canon inconsistencies having to serve as excuses for new ones...)
And then there's ancestor spirits ...
This is really not a challenge you want to put me; I'm not as good as Ancient History, but I hold my own.
For reference: about 3 times on page 12 of Survival of the Fittest alone, though the book is loaded with them. Then there's page 7 of Portfolio of a Dragon. Shadows of North America states that Dunkie was assassinated in the GI and I'm fairly sure there's at least one reference in Dragons of the Sixth World though I don't currently have either at hand. I could go on.
For reference: about 3 times on page 12 of Survival of the Fittest alone, though the book is loaded with them. Then there's page 7 of Portfolio of a Dragon. Shadows of North America states that Dunkie was assassinated in the GI and I'm fairly sure there's at least one reference in Dragons of the Sixth World though I don't currently have either at hand. I could go on.
| QUOTE |
| (Keep in mind that this doesn't solve the disappointment about the delay, but would only add new one about old canon inconsistencies having to serve as excuses for new ones...) |
What inconsistencies? The three original AIs are dead and gone. So is Dunklezahn.
AIs turning into Ancestor Spirits? Now that would make people happy. 
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| The three original AIs are dead and gone. |
Yes, that's what I was talking about.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| So is Dunklezahn. |
While I agree on the 'dead' part, the 'gone' part really is a bit different... more like 'gone fishing'
| QUOTE (bclements) |
| German only, I think. |
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