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Just figure I'd throw it up for critique/final review before I put him into a game. So, without further adieu, heres Gyre.
Edit: Or suggestions to his weak spots/places I should look into rounding him out with.

Body: 3          20bp
Agility: 3        20bp
Reaction: 3     20bp
Strength: 3     20bp
Charisma: 4    30bp
Intuition: 3      20bp
Logic: 3          20bp
Willpower: 4    30bp
TOTAL:           180bp
Special Attributes:
Edge: 2           0bp
Resonance: 6  65bp
Initiative: 6
Essence: 6
Technomancer             5bp
Codeslinger (Exploit)    10bp
Weak Immune System -5bp
Sensitive System          -15bp
TOTAL QUALITIES:        +5bp
TOTAL SPENT:         240bp

Active Skills:
Athletics Group (Climbing, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming): 1       10bp
Compiling (Courier) : 4                        18bp
Registering (Courier) : 4                      18bp
Hacking (Exploit) : 4                            18bp
Hardware : 4                                      16bp
Software (Masking Utilities) : 2             10bp
Automatics (Submachine Guns) : 2       10bp
Computer : 2                                      8bp
Gunnery (Ballistic) : 1                         6bp
Inflitration : 1                                     4bp
TOTAL SKILLS:                                   118bp
TOTAL SPENT:                                    358bp

Complex Forms:
Exploit: 6              6bp
Stealth: 6             6bp
Scan: 4                4bp
Command: 3        3bp
Analyze: 5            5bp
Spoof: 4               4bp
TOTAL BP on CFs: 28bp
TOTAL SPENT:       386

Fixer (L:1 C:2)      3bp
TOTAL SPENT:      389bp

11bp                   55,000¥
TOTAL BP: 400bp

Mercury Comet             14,000¥
MCT Nissan Rotodrone x3             6,000¥
            Weapon mount x3 (One per rotodrone)             7,500¥
Total: 27,500¥

Lined Coat             700¥
            Non-conductive: 6             1,200¥
            Shock Frills             200¥
Helmet             100¥
Total: 2,200¥
Running Total: 29,700¥

AK-97 Carbine             400¥
            Internal smart link(LL, Thm, FC)             400¥+(250¥)=650¥
            Gas-Vent 3             400¥
            Tripod             300¥
            Sound Suppressor             300¥

Ruger 100x3 (On rotodrones)             2,700¥
            Silencer x3             600¥
            Smartgun External(LL, Thm, FC) x3             1,200¥+(750¥)=1,950¥
Total: 7,300¥
Running Total: 37,000¥

Meta Link             100¥
            OS: Vector Xim             200¥
            Firewall: 6             3000¥
Clearsight: 3             600¥
Maneuver (MCT Roto drone): 3             600¥
Targetting (Ruger 100): 3             600¥
Total: 5,100¥
Running Total: 42,100¥

Medkit: 6             600¥
Fake SIN: 4             400¥
Goggles(LL, FC, IL, SL)             50¥+(75¥)=125¥
Gas Mask             100¥
Flashlight             25¥
Survival Kit             100¥
Biomonitor             300¥
Medkit Supplies  x3        150¥    
Stimulant Patch: 6   x4             500¥
Running Total:44,400¥

Middle             5,000¥
Grand Total: 49,400¥

Remainder: 5,600¥ For ammo and miscellaneous clothing etc.
I thought Technomancers used Willpower for firewall? Course, straightout buying rating 6 firewall is probably better. Pity that could be said for almost everything a technomancer can do.
The 6 firewall is for his commlink, and later his drones once he breaks copy protection.
Resonance 6 but weak mental stats? Resonance 5 saves 25 pts.

20 to attributes:
Agi 2, Str 2, Wil 5, Cha 4, Int 5. Better firewall and resistance against black ice (Wil+Cha after a Int+Wil for defense).
Five points say you now have an attack-CF and some chance of self-defense.

Lose software(spec), hardware and computer. Buy electronics 3.

MAJOR POINT: no matrix combat / electronic warfare??? No automatic weapons and no athletics group and no hacking would make cracking 4 possible.
The AK-97 has both a gas-vent and a suppressor. That's physically impossible.

(Both work with the gas coming out the end of the barrel. One disperses it gradually, one vents it to counteract muzzle climb. You can't do both.)
6 stealth and I plan to thread stealth to up towards 10-12 when/if I think I'll need it. I plan on registering a fault sprite or 2 I can call on should I need any fighting done. Software(spec) is for threading. Hardware is for being semi-useful to a team on a run while I'm with them. Computer is for checks with any common use programs. I'd rather keep my physical stats at 3's than tank them to 2's for mildly better matrix stats which aren't likely to be an issue without me getting detected.

Oh, and automatic weapons/athletics group is to allow me to actually help go along with the team on a run, without having to worry as much about being the liability.
QUOTE (Dancer)
The AK-97 has both a gas-vent and a suppressor. That's physically impossible.

(Both work with the gas coming out the end of the barrel. One disperses it gradually, one vents it to counteract muzzle climb. You can't do both.)

Ingram Smartgun comes with gas vent 2 and a sound suppressor. It works.
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Ingram Smartgun comes with gas vent 2 and a sound suppressor. It works.

Which is stupid.

Ruleswise both the gas vent and the sound suppressor occupy the barrel mount, so you can't install both.
Kyoto Kid's shadowrun tech, when has that ever been logical?

This is a world where you can put an HUD active targeting system with visual magnification and low light capability in a pair of contacts, where you can boost your cognitive capacity by having a surgeon put a few more folds in your brain, where datajacks are installed at booths "while U wait" and cybereyes at optical boutiques in shopping malls . It's a world where if you don't like being weak you can "buy" strength, if you don't like being slow, you can buy "speed" (who needs a membership at Gold's Gym anymore?), and if your having difficulty wooing the opposite (or same) sex, you can "buy" the ability to improve that too.

mechanically speaking, if you're gonna put your resonance to 6, you should probably put all your CFs at 6 also, and do your best to have as many CFs as you can.

my advice is to drop it to 5, use some of those extra points to boost edge or logic, increase your CFs, etc...

and also, you may wish to consider perception skill. and dodge.
Actually I've been finding that optimal builds for non-physically useless TMs is to cut back on CFs and spend the points on skills instead. You can lean on threading and sprites to help boost the CFs you don't have (threading is a free action!).
Ok, swap the a HK 227X in instead of the ak97 then, add gas vent 3, and it has an integral sound suppresor (integral accessories don't take up slots).

Threading isn't a free action, it isn't an action. So you can thread 3 forms, do a free, and a complex action all on one IP.

Mechanically speaking, you only get 2xlogic in CFs, so I have as many as I can. The resonance 6 is for the ability to have stealth and exploit at 6 (his specialty) and to allow stealth to be threaded up to 12. For general breaking in on the fly, hes rolling 6 (hacking (exploit) + 6 (CF) + 2 (VR) + 2 (Codeslinger) - 2 (Threading Stealth) = 14 dice. His stealth is 6 (CF) + 6(Threading, retry until you get the hits you need) = 12. 14 dice against the typical 1-7 firewall ratings isn't much. Even 7-13 if he wanted admin access. Figure the system can't have any more than 14 dice at best (7 system + 7 analyze) then chances are, he's going to hack in before hes detected. Then, for a decker/ic to spot him, is going to be awfully hard to beat his 12(Stealth) + 4(hacking) in an opposed test. His hacking is geared towards not getting found, not towards going in programs blazing.
Stealth is a fine primary strategy.If "stealth only" will work depends on your campaign/GM, keeping fault sprites at hand certainly helps. Intrusion detection is done via matrix perception once you are inside (patrolling IC, security hackers), so high stealth is not fault-proven.

I´d still go Resonance 5 - you only loose two dice on your "specialities" stealth and exploit, easy to fix later on. We could be talking intuition 5. You´d gain better perception, initiative and knowledge skills.

I stand by my recommendation of electronics 3 - more versatility and data search as sugar coating.

Your choice of CFs: Analyse should not be on the short list, as you are at +4 dice anyway. Edit on the other hand is VERY useful.

PS. I got the reason for athletics, no worries. I was just lacking points for the suggested cracking group. I´m divided on that one, personally. I do not consider it efficient to buy (dp 4 is still no-good-use), but having no athletic ability at all seems to nerdy for a shadowrunner.
James McMurray
I've never played a TM, so take this with an eye towards it being completely theory, but I think I'd go for as many maxed out CFs as possible. It seems to me they're a major karma dump later if you don't.

I haven't done a full analysis for skills vs. CF, but a rating 2 skill with a specialization costs 10 BP or 8 karma. 10 BP is 2 CFs at 5, which will cost 32 karma if you buy them after char gen.
Yeah, and once inside, its an opposed (computer + analyze) vs (hacking + stealth). Making the average decker (3 + 6) 9 vs my (4 + 12) 16. I'll win most every time.

Resonance 5 hurts a lot. I lose 1 off the CFs, I lose 2 off the threaded stealth (max of 10 not 12), I can't compile as good of sprites, etc. Yes, its a build point dump, but, I think for the gains I get in hacking (Especially having the 12 stealth) its worth it.

Data search is covered with courier sprites, which I'm specialized in. If you don't have a program, you don't get to make the test. You have to have analyze to make your matrix perception tests. (Unless you want to argue that you don't, in which case I argue I can hack without an exploit program.) It also is how I can find an enemy decker inside my drones. Which, if they have sniper rifles on them, I'd really like to be able to find people screwing with them. As far as edit is concerned, I can either thread it at a 1 if I need to make a change. But it certainly doesn't need to be high enough to warrant using up one of my 6 CF slots.

Yes James, not maxing CFs at chargen isn't cost effective. But I really don't care about costs down the line, if I don't survive to make it there. I'd rather be fairly effective from the start, and waste some karma to improve upon that. Rather than be cost effective, but not actually effective.
the problem with improving your CFs down the line is that you most likely won't.

to put it bluntly, it costs too much. the way your CFs look at chargen is largely the way they will look 50 karma later. it is simply too expensive after chargen to even touch them.

or, to put it another way: with your first 13 karma, you're most likely to submerge (and pick up a 4th IP in the matrix, for example). after that, you may want to increase your survivability in the meatworld, or you may want to boost your resonance (which improves fading resistance, allows you to thread higher, and allows you to compile and register higher rating sprites (in fact, it's a double dip on sprites because it increases your maximum rating as well as improving your fading resistance, which is the other main restriction on your sprites, and additionally makes you more likely to successfully compile/register or allows you to gain more services.)

out-of-matrix effectiveness can be obtained with drones, with matrix overwatch, by acting as a strategic advisor, providing AR bonuses to the team, interfering with the security force's, making them unable to trust what *their* system is telling them, and so forth. i'm not saying you should totally dump meatworld effectiveness... a decent dodge skill, some reaction, a good body score, and maybe even some athletics are good ideas. but when it comes down to it, you don't need a terribly amazing dicepool to contribute to the meatworld. a decent logic and hardware skill lets you handle electronic hotwiring and such. an agility of 2, a pistols skill of 1(semiauto +2) and a smartlink gives you a dicepool of 7 for attacking, which isn't *amazing*, but which is enough to shoot the average security guard.

you may not be an amazing meatworld combatant, but you will still be a threat.
Specializing Computer skill in the Analyze program gives you two dice for Matrix Perception.

EDIT: I miswrote 'analysis' program and have corrected it to say 'analyze' program
I would argue that unless you are using an analyze program, you don't get the bonus dice, since they are for use of an analyze program. Not to be used instead of.
No, TMs have +2 to matrix perception.

That 9 dicepool hacker you mention has edge. IC on high-sec systems has a minimum dicepool 12. You are at -2 while threading your form. Both have pretty good chances of occasionally detecting you, and only one entity on the system needs to do so. I do recommend to shore up your matrix combat abilities and not be a one-trick pony.
Yes, but to get any matrix perception, you need an analyze program. By "bonus dice" I meant "bonus dice from you computer specialization of analyze". Yes, a TM gets +2 to matrix perception, but you NEED a CF or program in order to make one at all. If you have no analyze program, you don't get to see stealthed programs. Period.

Sprites are what bail me out for matrix combat. Unlike bound spirits bound sprites cost nothing but time and damage (from compiling/registering). So, I can happily keep 4 on hand to call on should I need it. I'd plan to have probably 2 courier sprites, a fault, and a machine sprite. On the occasion I do get attacked, I can call the fault sprite over, and get done with what I need to do.

Even a rating 6 system probably wouldn't have more than 1 or 2 ice at the most (Considering IC, Analyze, Armor, Attack on its own is 4/6 programs it can run at full rating, assuming they're all running at 6's). So, either it has a few pathetic IC that won't see me, or one bigger one that I can have a fault sprite take care of, and go about my business.
OK so another question since I have been working on a TM myself.

Is it worthwhile to drop some build points to start with a registered sprite or two?

Seems to me that it would since it starts at rating (Resonance) and can be reregistered after the game starts.

If so which one(s)? I would guess crack and fault sprites.
QUOTE (SR4 @ p217, right column:)
Make a Matrix Perception test using your Computer + Analyze program
(rather than Perception + Intuition).
James McMurray
It's not worth it. Bind them after char gen and then heal the stun damage.
Yes Wasabi. If you have no analyze program, you can't do it. Unless you're telling me you can do any matrix action without needing any programs whatsoever.
James McMurray
What he's saying is that if you're specialized in Analyze you'll get those dice on matrix perception tests because matrix perception uses analyze.
The way I see it is this. If you specialize in analyze then, when you are USING an analyze program, you get +2 dice. Not, whenever you're performing an analyze action. The specialization list says by program, not by action. You can't specialize automatics in (shooting) only by weapon types. If you don't have the type you specialize in, you don't get the dice. Same here. No analyze program, no +2 dice, and no matrix perception checks.
James McMurray
How can you use Analyze without an Analyze program? I guess I missed that part of the discussion. If you don't have analyze you can't perform matrix perception and your specialization will be useless.
Specializing in a program adds +2 when that program is used
An Analyze program is used in matrix perception:

QUOTE (SR4 @ p217, right column:)
Make a Matrix Perception test using your Computer + Analyze program
(rather than Perception + Intuition).
Agreed. But, if you have no analyze program. Your specialization in using analyze programs is worthless, since you have no program to begin with, you can't use one. You also can't make a matrix perception test without one. The specialization doesn't get around that.
Is there any reason why a Technomancer couldn't use a Commlink and his Computer Skill, along with the appropriate programs to cover the bases he can't with his innate abilities (CF? Always makes me think of Cargo Factor from previous editions eek.gif)?
Rotbart van Dainig
Because you buy Cracking and Electronics skills either as TM version or as normal version.
To use a normal commlink, you would need the normal version.

Doesn't really make sense, because TMs can build hardware and write programs with their nativ skills, and anyone can use them? Tell the devs.
Yes. He'd have to double up on his technical skills. One set for the "technomancer" side, and another for the "regular" skills. SR4, 233.
So, technically a Technomancer could pick up a second Computer Skill on top, and then be good to go?
Rotbart van Dainig
Sure. Or: 'How to better start building a Hacker Adept'.
Could you use both at the same time. even to the point of, for example, launching Agents from your Commlink while utilizing all the unique Otak ... er Tecnomancer abilities?
Rotbart van Dainig
No, as those would be two different Persona.
Well I've always read that blurb as mostly being a bit of fluff and a Technomancer could use a commlink, code a program, or do anything that a Decker could do with the same skill, it's just that in the end the Decker would be left scratching his head wondering how in the hell she was able to make it work.
There is a TM-version of certain skills, but their usage is not limited. They are prohibited from using programms with their living persona, so they´d have two persona while using a comlink. A bit shizophrenic, but possible. The only limit is availability as LearnSoft/Skillsoft and availability of teachers.

On the number of IC: It does make sense to ignore system load for mainframes. If you don´t, the security setup just needs several IC-nodes, wich would be dedicated agent-comlinks. The result is just the same.

On loading agents: As long as the agent does operate on/with connection to its spawning node, only the agent itself needs to be loaded. The programs it is loaded with does not need to be active on the comlink, only within the agent. Think of it as a virtual machine. The program itself is only loaded when you want to run the agent on something else than your comlink, loosing access to the memory of your comlink in the process.

On matrix perception: I´d rule that TMs are able to percieve the matrix without Analyse-CF. Stock OS come with build-in analyse 1, too. If you don´t do the same, Analyse is indeed needed. Conceded.

One more go at Resonance 5 remains: Increase hacking to 6. Same number of dice with better general ability. You get max. 16 dice to resist matrix perception (hacking 4+stealth 12 -2 for threading +2 for being on hot SIM). Rating 5 IC on a rating 5 host gets 10 dice to detect you. So max. threading will offer good but not perfect invisibilty. IF the IC detects you, the first two attacks WILL disable your persona. Not good for TMs. Against security deckers (who have edge to detect you) the same is true.

BTW as a GM I would allow you to play your char as written. You´d just encounter more problems than you seem to think.
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Agreed. But, if you have no analyze program. Your specialization in using analyze programs is worthless, since you have no program to begin with, you can't use one. You also can't make a matrix perception test without one. The specialization doesn't get around that.

I'm not sure how not having an analyze program came up... its the first program I load after my avatar and the example character from the OP has Analyze: 5

I agree with your statements just not sure what prompted them...
My suggestion of replacing analyse with edit did this.

The point being that IF you allow TMs to percive the matrix without analyse (at Computer-1), the added TM-boni would be sufficient to choose another CF on the very short list Tarantula has in mind.
The point being that IF you allow TMs to percive the matrix without analyse (at Computer-1) ...

But why should they be allowed to do this? Every other Matrix action requires the proper program ... no program, no action. Why should this case be any different?
James McMurray
I agree with fortune. You can default on most skills, but that's it. Defaulting is not defined for programs, sensors, or anything else that might work by way of rolling attribute + rating.
QUOTE (James McMurray)
I agree with fortune. You can default on most skills, but that's it. Defaulting is not defined for programs, sensors, or anything else that might work by way of rolling attribute + rating.

And yet it does happen numerous times throughout the rules. It's vexxing.

And worst of all, I don't seem to be able to get Peter to acknowledge the problem.

James McMurray
If there's a rule that allows defaulting, then defaulting is allowed. If there isn't, then it isn't. Analyze as observing in detail has no rule for defaulting.
One question I've always wondered since I've seen the Technomancer rules in the core book (I don't have street magic) is: How exactly do Technomancers deal with high security neighborhoods where drones are looking for people whose commlinks are hidden? If a technomancer has to carry a disposable commlink with the cover ID for wandering around, but doesn't have the skills to USE that commlink...
It is assumed that most people in the Sixth World (barring Incompetence) are able to use the basic functions of a computer, or commlink (Skill = 0).
High sec neighborhoods dont monitor for usage they just do ID verification.
(Disclaimer: This is based on what I've read. Novels and such may differ. YMMV.)
Ryu: Yes, if the IC detects me, it'll probably attack. I'll drop stealth, and thread armor (since threading takes no actions, not even a free), and call in my registered fault sprite. Chances are, I can take the hits until my fault sprite takes it out, and then, I call the machine sprite into my medkit to use diagnostics and then have my medkit repair the damage caused. At least, thats the plan anyway, luck always has a way of screwing with that.

My reasoning for allowing defaulting on matrix perception for TMs is that I consider it an oversight that they can´t explicitly do that. No need to convince me otherwise, as one can buy enough CF to have both analyse AND edit IMO.

Can someone tell me why TMs can´t use their skills with comlinks? The section on complex forms (of all places) indicates that they can use comlinks and programs, even if it is uncommon for them. The limitations from the section before only limit the aquisition of the TM-version of the skills.


Back to our main topic. The IC will attack immediately after detecting you and has two attacks. You may thread armor, but not before said attacks are resolved ( I´d give you a surprise test + initiative roll, but you´ll likely loose both, based on your mental stats. The IC has 10 dice for its attack with a base DV of 5, twice per round, quite likely using black hammer (on easier systems you´ll have no problems at all).

Then your first action will be calling up the fault sprite. That may be way to late, even if it will certainly be able to defeat the IC.

If you use the points from loosing resonance 6 (-25BP, -2 points of CF) on hacking 6(8BP), logic 4 (10BP), you could buy Armor 5 (3BP) and Edit 4 (4 BP). Your max. stealth capability would be lower while intruding a system, even on hiding inside a node and better while you are not threading stealth up. As threading causes fading, that should be quite attractive.
you're also not noting that by losing resonance 6, i lose the ability to more easily get sprites at rating 6. Also, fading is not nearly so bad when you can use a medkit to fix it.

I'd still argue that since fading takes no action (much like blinking) I'd be able to thread the armor before the IC attacked.
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