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After a long break from Shadowrun (lack of local interest), I'm finally getting to play (not run, but play...yea!) a game this weekend. I used to be very familiar with the 3e rules, but I've gotten a little rusty, hence I need your help. I want to play a face character, but he's going to have to have some cyber since he's expected to be gun support #2. We're using the priority system (123 points).

Str 5
Qui 7
Bod 5(6)
Int 5
Wil 5
Cha 5

Reaction 7(11)
Essence 3.04--only a few things are "visible"
Initiative 11+4d6

Stealth 5 +1
Athletics 5 +1
Pistols (or SMGs) 5 +1
Electronics [Maglocks] 2/4 +1 (-2 TNs)
Electronics [Maglocks] B/R 2/4 +1 (-2 TNs)
Etiquette 5
Negotiation 5

Cyberware (all alpha)
Datajack w. Knowsoft Link
Smartlink 2 (all systems except display)
Cybereyes (w. LL, Thermo, FC, Micro)
Image Link
Hearing Amp/Damp
Bone Lacing (Plastic)
Reaction Enhancers (4)
Boosted Reflexes (1)

Bioware (cultured w. availability of 8 is legal)
Synaptic Accelerator 2
Trauma Damper
Enhanced Articulation
Muscle Toner (2)
Orthoskin (2)

Obviously, I need to buy up Charisma and get cracking on Interrogation asap, but in terms of cyber- and bioware, is there anything you'd drop or add? I was thinking about going the "record everything he sees/hears" route, but that really kills the essence and I know this guy will be counted on to fire his gun from time to time.
Tactics can oftentimes make up for lack of reactions. Play smart, not fast, and you can easily drop off either some quickness or one of the init/reaction boosters, giving you money or the ability to boost up your charisma.

Drop the telephone and put a datajack or two in in it's place. You can DJ into damn near anything, saving you essence. Unless you plan on getting into a stripped situation.
Sometimes you just need to report in while actually in bed with someone.

QUOTE (Pavlov)
Obviously, I need to buy up Charisma and get cracking on Interrogation asap, but in terms of cyber- and bioware, is there anything you'd drop or add?  I was thinking about going the "record everything he sees/hears" route, but that really kills the essence and I know this guy will be counted on to fire his gun from time to time.

A good Face needs a minimum of 20 contacts, including one each at the AAA corps.

As for the everything see/hear, well, you can get away with doing one out of two. That gives you the option for increasing the cyberware grade later so you can fill the essence hole. Cyberware to pickup: Transducer (and Radio, if you can fit it in).
For a face you have way too much wares. Right now your character is much more suited to being a Gun Bunny then a face.

First off... drop the Orthoskin. It's visible which can cause charisma penalties, and if it ever takes stress it becomes dry and flaky (ie, bad complexion... which never helps a Face).

Personally, I would scrap most of the combat stuff. If a Face does their job, they don't need to have all that ability. Sides, minimum amount of cyberware can get a Face into places that a heavily cybered warrior can't.

Personally I'd take, 2-3 datajacks, Head Mem, a Image link retinal mod, Transducer, Subdermal speakers, Smartlink II.

As for Bioware, just keep the Enhanced Artwinkulation.

As for skills, drop the SMG, lower the athletics. Raise the Negotiations and the Ettiquette to 6. Get Intimidation: Mental. Also, Computer and Car could be useful (and by useful I mean essential)

Get your character Good Rep or any of the other social edges.

And Contacts, Contacts, Contacts!!!!!

I know you said that this Face needs to be combat ready, but you'd be surprised how a far a little bit of cover and a smartlink can go. Face's job is to do the talkin, not the shooting.

Honestly, you have less of Face in this character, and more a Covert Ops specialist (especially with the Maglock removal skills).

Indeed. Pistol should be all that's necessary; if you want power, I'd suggest a shotgun. By the time you're in heavy combat, the run is blown anyway.

Kanada Ten
Sidekick, one need not have subdermal speakers if one has a transducer.
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Sidekick, one need not have subdermal speakers if one has a transducer.

From the way it's written, transducers seems to only work when hooked into a communication device. The subdermal speaker are for when accessing things in the Head Mem... ie the recorded conversation between the Johnson and the Face. I take it back though, instead of subdermal, the character should take Ear Recorder, which include sub dermals in them.

But you are correct Kanada Ten, this character should have a transducer.
Kanada Ten
You could easily route the transducer to headware memory. I would think this standard as a diary recorder/playback.

The transducer converts thoughts into text, IMO.
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
By the time you're in heavy combat, the run is blown anyway.

And want to stay a live, hence the combat stuff.
Biotech never hurt anyone. Literally. I'd slap in Biotech(First Aid) at 3/5. Keep you and your partners less dead. They'll thank you. Dropping those alpha'ed reaction enhancers would net you close to 500,000 nuyen. Get skills instead, or buy fifty level two contacts. That'll make your friends hate you, when you call every damned one of them.

Kanada Ten
Switch out the Orthoskin for higher Bone Lacing then; the disadvantages to ortho are just too much.

Drop the Boosted, it just makes you twitchy after the nice smooth Synaptic and Enhancers.

Increase Willpower and Charisma (one resists the other insists). Talk you GM into allowing Pheromones if you can.

And, yeah contacts, contacts, contacts.

Trauma Damper? Isn't the Pain Editor better for non mages? Don't know about that never had either.
Eww... pain editor has all sorts of nasty things associated with it. It's for people who want to walk up to someone using an HMG and choke them to death.

Ol' Scratch
Here's a few notes I threw together for a Face-ish character about a week ago. It was mostly a rough draft where I crammed a bunch of ideas into a single character to see how it fared. He's not really a "secondary gun bunny," per se, but he could certainly hold his own in a firefight (especially if you changed his Pistols specialty to a stylish heavy pistol such as the Savalette or Morrissey).

He also has room for another Edge and up to three more Flaws, so you could always give him Ambidexterity 4 or whatnot. He could probably use a melee skill, too, and I'd lean towards Clubs (Stun Batons) or Whips (Monofilament) or any other weapon that's not Strength dependant. But that's assuming you wanted to make him combat-oriented. As I said, I was just building a Face archetype as a reference point for myself when I designed my real character. :)

His routed DNI-controlled Pocket Secretary allows him to record just about anything he sees or hears (since it has a camera and recorder built into it), and if the 100 Mp of active memoryin it isn't sufficient, he can always use the 1,000 Mp storage memory he has to, well, store anything he needs. 100 Mp is also more than sufficient to hold up to 16 of his ActiveSofts if he needed to, though a jukebox would more than suffice in most situations. He's also capable of creating his own mapsofts or obtaining his own for a run, and he's just damn good at finessing his way past obstacles.

I also toned him down from the 130 BP game I was designing him for (by taking away 7 points of skills; Athletics and Pistols were both one point higher and he had a Cars skill of 5 beforehand).

Human Face
123 BPs: Magic 0, Race 0, Attributes 60, Skills 33, Resources 30, Edges 0

Body 4(5)
Quickness 6
Strength 2
Charisma 6(8 or 9 if allowing surgical options)
Intelligence 8
Willpower 6
Reaction 8
Initiative 2D6

Combat Pool 10
Karma Pool 1

Essence 2.3 (can be improved significantly with alphaware)
Bio Index 4.1 (3.5 without Tailored Pheromones)

Athletics 3(6)
Computers 5(6)
Etiquette 6(8)
Interrogation 4(6) (Verbal 6(8))
Negotiation 6(8)
Pistols 2(3) (Walther Palm Pistol 4(5))
Stealth 5(6)

40 points of Knowledge Skills (each with a +1 bonus), and 12 points of Language Skills (each with a +3 bonus). Remember to include Information Sortilage and Matrix Knowledge Skills as well as Lip Reading, Underworld Politics and the other stand-bys.

Friendly Face
Good Looking & Knows It
Good Reputation 2

Bad Karma (manipulating people so often has bitten him in the ass)
Dark Secret (involved with an underaged girl)

Bone Lacing, Plastic (0.5 Essence, 7,500 nuyen) (Improved Looks surgical option)
Chipjack (0.2 Essence, 1,000 nuyen)
* Chipjack Expert Driver 3 (0.3 Essence, 30,000 nuyen)
Cyberears (0.3 Essence, 4,000 nuyen, routed)
* Dampener (0.1 Essence, 3,500 nuyen)
* Hearing Amplification (0.2 Essence, 3,500 nuyen)
* Spatial Recognizer (0.2 Essence, 1,200 nuyen)
Cybereyes (0.2 Essence, 5,000 nuyen, routed)
* Cosmetic Modification (1,000 nuyen)
* EyeLight System (0.2 Essence, 1,200 nuyen)
* Flare Compensation (0.1 Essence, 2,000 nuyen)
* Image Link (0.2 Essence, 1,600 nuyen)
* Low-Light (0.2 Essence, 3,000 nuyen)
* Vision Magnification 3, Electronic (0.1 Essence, 11,000 nuyen)
Datajack (0.2 Essence, 2,000 nuyen)
* Knowsoft Link (0.1 Essence, 1,000 nuyen)
* Transducer (0.1 Essence, 2,000 nuyen)
Internal GPS (0.1 Essence, 1,000 nuyen) (Sensitive surgical option)
Obvious Cyberhand (0.35 Essence, 20,000 nuyen, routed)
* DNI (0.25 ECU, 0.1 Essence, 4,500 nuyen)
* 1,000 Mp Storage Memory (0.5 ECU, 7,575 nuyen)
* Induction Pad (0.25 ECU, 200 nuyen)
* Pocket Secretary (1 ECU, 3,500 nuyen)
Orientation System (0.25 Essence, 15,000 nuyen)
Skillwires (ASIST 2/Pulse 6) (0.4 Essence, 6,000 nuyen)
Smarlink Subsystems
* Limited Simsense Rig (0.1 Essence, 300 nuyen)
* Range Finder (0.1 Essence, 2,000 nuyen)
* Smarlink-2 Processor (0.2 Essence, 2,000 nuyen)
Synthetic Fingerptint 4 w/ Scanner (12,000 nuyen)

Cerebral Booster 2 (0.8 Bio, 110,000 nuyen)
Clean Metabolism (0.2 Bio, 10,000 nuyen)
Dietware (0.2 Bio, 10,000 nuyen)
Enhanced Articulation (0.6 Bio, 40,000 nuyen)
Mnemonic Enhancer 3 (0.6 Bio, 45,000 nuyen)
Synaptic Accelerator 1 (0.4 Bio, 75,000 nuyen)
Synthacardium 2 (0.3 Bio, 15,000 nuyen)
? Tailored Pheromones 2 (0.6 Bio, 45,000 nuyen)
Trauma Damper (0.4 Bio, 40,000 nuyen)

Contacts (150,000 nuyen)
Lifestyles, Fake IDs, Licenses, & Wardrobe (150,000 nuyen)

158,925 nuyen remaining for everything else, including a nice custom car. Maybe a used yacht to help ebb the cost of a High/Luxury lifestyle.

Activesofts should all be at rating 2 with the Customization option (3,600 nuyen a pop; total rating of 3 with up to 3 more Task Pool dice)

Remember to get a simple cyberdeck with Information Sortilage-type utilities and a Shadowland Account contact (Level 2).
Folks, I think you're all going overboard. Pavlov already has a character pretty well fleshed out. He asked for tweaking, not an overhaul. Telling him to dump all the combat ware doesn't fit what he wants the character to be able to do. In the interest of actually answering Pavlov's question, I'm going to offer a fairly extensive list of _possible_ modifications, but without changing the overall role of the character.

I do agree with dropping the orthoskin. That's way too obvious. And adding a transducer is an excellent plan. They're cheap, they're essence friendly, and they do wonderful things. I'd also recommend adding a chipjack for the knowsofts. Works a bit better than a datajack, and not so obvious. I've personally never been a fan of reaction enhancers, even on combat characters. Too costly for the benefit, in my opinion. Dropping those would make room for some of the senseware or commware that you wanted. Alternately, since cultured bio is allowed, you might consider a sleep regulator or mnemonic enhancer (the latter eliminates some of the need for sense recording). Depending on your GM, a secondary smartlink processor (basic, rather than SL2) might be wise. If you know you'll always have your preferred weapon with you, don't bother, but if you frequently have to grab weapons on the go, regular smartlinks are more common than SL2s.

If you're looking for a place to tweak build points, I'd agree with dropping Strength to 4 or even 3 (you don't have any strength related skills) and suggest maybe dropping Will to 4. That will let you increase both Charisma and Int to 6.
Smartlink-IIs are compatible with Smartlink-I systems in guns.

I'd probably attempt to load out the eyes a little more. Either with a camera or opticam so that you can get your Johnson's face, covertly record information, etc. In general, a face should do everything possible through gear and only have the cyberware which does the job better than the gear can.
Thanks for all the replies!

I'll drop the Orthoskin. I love the stuff, but the conceal factor is just too big. Maybe I'll look into ceramic/kevlar bone lacing, although I remember their essence cost as being high.


And adding a transducer is an excellent plan.

I was planning on using one equipped with a DNI commlink through my datajack, which I placed behind my ear, not on my forehead. The rules are a little vague on this (decker vs. rigger jacks), but I figure with a concealed jack and a turtleneck, I'm doing okay.


I'd also recommend adding a chipjack for the knowsofts. Works a bit better than a datajack

I've got a knowsoft link and a datajack because I love chipjacks but thought this did the same thing and still allowed me all sorts of DNI tricks--like I said, I'm rusty, am I wrong on this?

I'll crunch some more numbers and try to get some more ideas posted later today, but don't let that keep you from posting new ideas (but tailored pheromones are out at char gen).
"Building [a] Face", Pavlov?

Sounds like a job for a plastic surgeon. smile.gif

Sorry. Couldn't resist. SOMEBODY had to say it.

Good luck with your character.

Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Smartlink-IIs are compatible with Smartlink-I systems in guns.


Only if you have the standard processor included in it.
The datajack allows you do to all the things you said, I suggested the chipjack as a supplement to the datajack, not a replacement. Sorry if I was unclear. I think you may find that you often want to run several knowsofts (or linguasofts) at once, and having a 3 or 4 slot chipjack helps in that regard.

Kagetenshi, I just double checked in M&M. It says that SL2 only works with SL2 guns. Nor did I find an update in the M&M errata. Do you have a source for your assertion? (If so, there's a GM that I need to talk into returning some essence and nuyen.)
...At some point I really need to track down what I was on when I read these rulebooks through the first time.

Quick question spurred by the suggestion to pick up the perceptive edge. On page 96 of the BBB, it states you can use Stealth (Alertness) as a complementary skill for perception tests. I don't have the speciality, but I've always ruled that the skill embodies all the specialities at whatever level you have it at. That is, my guy can roll 5 dice (Enhanced Articulation isn't going to help here) as a complementaty skill for his perceptions tests that oppose someone else's Stealth.
Ol' Scratch
Yes, you can use Stealth in that fashion. They only list the specialization to let you know that it is, indeed, a specialization within the skill, so you can specialize in Alertness for an extra die or two. And yes, Perceptive still grants you a -1 TN bonus with your base Perception Test (while it's up to your GM if it applies to the Stealth test as well, since its a complimentary Perception Test).
Edit: Final Version posted below. Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I went with 25 build points towards cash to get a few more skills and to lessen some enemies.

Alright, here's the newest version. I decided to drop a good deal of the cyberware to keep my Essence above 4. I'll probably try to improve it down the road and who knows, maybe I'll luck out and find a huge amount of cash and a beta clinic--I figure if anyone in the group can find one, it's me. Final rules question: it's pretty clear if you get alpha cybereyes, everything you put in them needs to be alpha too. What about other eye mods "outside" of the cybereyes. Right now I've got alpha replacements with LL/Thermo/FC/Micro, all at alpha. Could I add a beta camera down the road? [Answered--I guess I'll hold out for beta hearing amp/damp]

Str 4
Bod 5 (7)
Qui 7
Int 5
Wil 5
Cha 6

Reaction 7
Essence 4.2 (nothing that should impact social interaction)
Initiative 7+2d6

Enhanced Articulation
Muscle Toner 2
Mnemonic Enhancer 3 (house ruled, but the memory thing alone is good for this guy)
Synaptic Accelerator 1
Trauma Damper

(all alpha)
2-slot Chipjack
Bone Lacing (Plastic)
Smartlink II system (including rangefinger, no display)
Cybereyes w.
-Flare Compensation
-Microscopic Vision
Image Link

The bone modification genetech, whose name I forget.

Pistols 5 +1
Stealth 6 +1
Athletics 4 +1
Electronics 2 +1 (-2 to some TNs)
-Maglocks 4 +1 (-2 to some TNs)
Electronics B/R 2 +1 (-2 to some TNs)
-Maglocks B/R 4 +1 (-2 to some TNs)
Computer 3
Negotiate 6
Etiquette 6
Interrogate 3
-Mental 5

Underworld Politics 4
Magic Background 2
Security Procedures 4
Shadowrunner Haunts 3
Gambling 2
-Poker Variants 4
Italian Cooking 2
-Tuscan 4
Seattle High Society 3
English 6
-Read/Write 3
Russian 4
-Read/Write 2

Note: I need to add the skill modifiers of the Mnemonic Enhancer to some of these

Good Reputation +2
Good Looking and Knows It +1
Bad Karma -5

Level 1 Contacts:
1 at each megacorp
Street Doc
Yakuza Soldier
Government Official

Level 2 Contacts:
Russian Mobster
Lone Star Detective
Society Girl

A bunch of nice toys and a decent weapon (Browning Max Power with some tweaks).

Our decker is generally off-site, so I picked up the Maglock-related stuff. Plus, I like the blend of Covert Ops/Face, it helps flesh out the character more. I considered bumping his Int up with some bioware, but he's already at 5 and I didn't want him to become Einstein. I'm always a little surprised how many sam out there have Ints in the 6-8 range but make terrible decisions and don't have any Int-linked skills.
You'll need to get the rest of the stuff upgraded to put in a Beta camera.

QUOTE (pavlov)
I'm always a little surprised how many sam out there have Ints in the 6-8 range but make terrible decisions and don't have any Int-linked skills.

Why, ain't it obvious? it's for the Reaction and Combat Pool.

On to the Character.

Stats, hmm good if only very slightly high (but thats IMO)

Skills, Not bad but i think it's (now) Electronics- Security systems instead of maglocks (i might be wrong tho) and i would drop computer and put the points electronics. And i would go pistols 4, Stealth 6 myself but i know that would cost you an extra point (maybe off computer) I wouls also like a combat skill (clubs) but how to getting with reworking not sure.

Bioware/ Cyberware, Why the lacing? and i would get eyelights for the cybereyes. And i really would only go for a lvl one Acceleerator. (see in my eyes lvl can be explained by just being quick, lvl 2 some eyes brows will be raised, 2 Actions per turn can be got by anyone hows quick, that 2nd lvl puts you into the 3 actions per turn catagoery. No basic (meta) human can do that. Just some thoughts)
Ugh, that'll never happen. One beta camera I could see myself affording down the road, but not a whole new set of eyes with all the toys. I guess I'll abandon the idea of ears for now and just add the alpha camera at chargen. Edited previous post to reflect changes.

Edit: This was in response to Kagetenshi, not Shockwave_IIc.


Why, ain't it obvious? it's for the Reaction and Combat Pool.



Skills, Not bad but i think it's (now) Electronics- Security systems instead of maglocks (i might be wrong tho) and i would drop computer and put the points electronics. And i would go pistols 4, Stealth 6 myself but i know that would cost you an extra point (maybe off computer) I wouls also like a combat skill (clubs) but how to getting with reworking not sure.

Computer is one of those skills that always seems to come into play. Maybe it's because my GM and I own Target: Matrix or just an excuse to make low-skill PCs regret maxing out Gunnery and Launch Weapons. Pistols needs to stay a little high since I'm gun #2 in the group--that's also why I caved and went with Synaptic Accelerator 2. I figure if I'm moving that fast either I'm shooting or getting shot at, and at that point I don't care too much about the social mods to Etiquette tests. I've always ruled that cyber is how fast your body wants to move and bio is how fast you want to move, so outside of high-tension moments like combat, I should be fairly normal looking.

Ol' Scratch
Note, also, that your second level with the Synaptic Accelerator will only let you average an Initiative roll of 17.5 whereas with just one you still have 14; both provide only two actions, and anyone with serious boosts will go first anyway. So it's not helping you all that much, and certainly not enough to warrent the obscene cost of it.

But to each their own. smile.gif
Alright, Dr Funkenstein and Shockwave_IIc have convinced me. I think I was letting the rest of the group goad me into it--I'm now slower and have a lot more close friends.
Funny how that works.

Make sure you have lifestyles up the wazoo. A high or two, some mediums, and a lot of lows to duck into now and again. Good for meeting people on your own terms.
I don't have the SSG yet, but the GM has ruled that lifestyles can be tweaked post-chargen once someone picks it up.

Squatter (bought, where I hide when things go wrong)
Low (2 months, where I meet with shadowy friends and plot illegal things)
Middle (6 months, where I actually live)
High (2 months, where I entertain and pretend to live)

Security is above the norm at all these places, obviously.
Good good. I'd get a low for five or six months in every district, so you could pull a Boris the Blade (see Snatch) when the shit becomes acquainted with the fan, anywhere in Seattle.
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