I could swear I saw a rule somewhere that bioware systems could be converted to genetech systems by adjusting the nuyen cost. Did I hallucinate? Can anyone give me the page reference? I think it was in AUG.

p. 93, Transgenetic Alteration, Animal Features.

However: No grades...

What blocks grades?

Edit oh right I see, bottom of page 87.

Edit2: Hey, does anything stop a street sammie from getting synaptic booster III at char gen for 10 points by buying Genetic Heritage?

Uh, prides of Messiahs on a raft. That's a significant rule tucked into a hard to find place.

I just want to laugh at the twitchy little kid that has to grow up with an integral synaptic booster.

Note that the rule in question isn't saying "all Bioware is available as Genetech." It's that Animal Features in the form of functional senses available as Bioware can be gained through Genetech as well, such as Cat's Eyes and Echolocation. It's all the same paragraph, not a separate and distinct rule.

But I'm sure that's not going to hold back the "omfg its raw shut up and let me munchkinate" crowd.

Paragraphs represent a single thought. You can't split a paragraph up and pick and choose which parts you want to read and ignore everything else; it doesn't work that way. If any Bioware could be taken as Genetech, that would have been spelled out in its own set of rules elsewhere. You really think it's a coincidence that's not the case here? Please.

"omfg its raw shut and let me munchkinate" in all its glory.

OK, As someone who suggested this early in the augmentation thread, here's the deal: if you allow it, it's totally a house rule. The only thing the rules quoted specifically allows is cosmetic bioware, the kind that only has the effect of making you look freaky.

Honestly, though, that whole trait is bullshit. having a genetic modification done to you in-vitro is awesome, but you should pay for the mod out of your starting funds and just SAY you were born with it. Same game effect, no munchkining, no getting screwed on points for choosing a sub-par ability. Rules wise there's no difference for an in-born genetic mod, so why make it cost different in terms of BP?

Don't forget that to inherit the mod your parents had to have had it done twenty years (or more) ago, meaning it's a couple of generations behind the tech curve. And if you get yourself loaded up with genetech versions of bioware your kids are going to be born with 0.1 Essence and a load of obsolete systems.

Erm, they're not a subpar qualities. Genetic heritage is a great way to pick up the equivalent of an exceptional attribute or other nifty ability on the cheap as well as giving a discount to other purchases. If nothing else, Genetic Heritage, Genecrafting and Nano Prototype are nice for people (like me, for instance) who favor maxing out the equipment cap because they let you squeeze more fancy gear under the 50 bp limit in exchange for spending a little extra and a taking a hit to your Quality cap. Don't go bashing the qualities just because some people came to a few wild conclusions and think they can buy Synaptic 3 and a 20% off all Genetech coupon for 10bps. I'm pretty confident there isn't anything particularly out of whack with the qualities themselves, provided you aren't taking the kinds of liberties people here are talking about (and I really do think it takes quite a stretch to say such things are supported by the RAW).

Genetic Heritage is a great quality. Not only do you get to start with any genetech treatment of your choosing for free (and no mention is made of an Availability limitation, mind you), but you also get a 20% discount on any other transgenic genetech treatments you want at character creation or beyond. And that does include the animalistic-bioware-implants-as-genetech rule.

That means for the equivalence of 50,000 nuyen (and still leaving you with up to 250,000 nuyen for other gear), you can get the equivalence of Biocompatibility (Adapsin) which is fully compatible with Biocompability or any of the really hot Genetic Infusions such as Sideways or Braveheart. Those are all covered by genetech, which the quality specifically allows.

Give me any of those options over starting with a free Synaptic Booster any day.

Adapsin is specifically excluded from being bought at character generation.

There's an Availability 12 for Resources at character creation. There's no such limitation regarding Positive or Negative Qualities, neither of which are Resources -- a specific character creation "category." Qualities are a completely different category with its own rules, none of which have the aforementioned Availability 12 limitation. In fact, the Availibility 12 limitation is specific only to the Gear subcategory of the Resources category (SR4 p. 84).

Anyone who claims otherwise isn't living up the rules as written that they cling to so vehemently when it suits their arguments.

See. I can play that game, too.

Aren't we discussing it being used as your Genetic Inheritance freebie. In that case your arguing that a cutting edge transgenic therapy that in 2070 is excluded from character generation was available to your parents 15-20 years previously.

That I am. Who knows, maybe your fetus was the one who provided the original sample in the R&D laboratories 15-20 years previously due to a unique blend or mutation of genetically altered material in your parents.

ThreeGee: True, but what is cutting edge but still available today must have been the subject of experimentation somewhere down the line. Also there is the possibility that the effect is actually an unplanned side-effect from a totally (or not-so-totally) different experimental treatment performed on his parents. Or even the result of the combination of two quite disparate techniques. There are usually a few ways to explain these things.

I'm saying the rules don't expressly disallow such a thing, yes.

On the topic of Bioware as Geneware, I found this little quote which backs up Doc's point-of-view, albeit in a oblique manner.

Can we get a developer to comment on this?

Personally I like the idea that bioware can be had as genetech - it makes genetech a lot more versatile, but not overbalanced.

NM, posted something but then immediately thought it through a bit better.