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Ol' Scratch
Still tinkering around with an initial build. It's always tough to give the proper skills for a special forces type, even with 50% more build points. biggrin.gif Stupid highly trained punks. I tell ya.
Mister Juan
Are we able to break up skill group to up particular skills at character creation?
Ol' Scratch
I got a response to that in a PM. He's not allowing it. smile.gif Gotta take the Skill Group or buy the individual Skills from 1.
Mister Juan
Alright.
Thanks for the info.

I'm probably going to cook up a guy from the Bureau. Some trigger time and such, but much more the investigative type than a straight up shooter. Probably going to give him the "minimum" in firearms.
TheOneRonin
Remember that everyone needs to be at Special Ops level. A former FBI guy probably cut his teeth on Hostage Rescue, so he is gonna have some really good combative skills. After that, he would most likely have transitioned to Anti-Terror field work.

TheOneRonin
A note on SINs in my game:

I've gotten a few individual questions about SINs and the SINer/Criminal SIN qualities, so I'm throwing up this post so everyone knows how this works in my game.

First off, the way I play things is that only Governments or Corporations can issue SINs. The actual SIN info (your name, address, finger prints, DNA, retinal pattern, blood type, etc.) is all stored in a central DB cluster, and authorized organizations can back-check that info. When Lone Star runs your prints, their system queries the Government or Corporate DB. Only the issuing agency can actually change your SIN info in the database.

For black-ops guys like you, an easily traced SIN is a huge liability. Any evidence you would end up leaving behind on a mission could be traced back to you. Uncle Sam doesn't want that happening, so he does something special when you guys go on an op. Here is an example. When off-duty or training, your team sniper Joe Shooter's SIN record has his prints and DNA pattern and everything else that identifies him. When Joe gets deployed on an OP, the government "black-bag's" his on-record SIN info. Basically, all the data that can be used to identify him is changed slightly. So if Joe Shooter is picked up by a foreign government and they run his prints, those prints match up with the fake id the CAS government has setup and don't actually point back to Joe's real SIN. When Joe comes back from an op, that fake SIN info is either purged if it was compromised, or put on the shelf to be used again later.

In your case, a government issued "fake SIN" is as good as a real SIN. It doesn't have to make checks against a reader, and it has all of the financial and historical background needed. In fact, it really isn't a "Fake SIN" in the traditional sense because no amount of back-checking will reveal it to be fake.

For a normal Shadowrunner, to have your ident info in someone's DB is a huge liability. It means it is much easier to trace you. Since you work for the CAS Government, you don't have that problem. Therefore, the SINer and Criminal SIN qualities aren't really worth any BPs.

As a side note, I'd like to mention one house rule about how I handle SINs and Commlinks. When a government or corporate entity issues a SIN, they also issue a small data card, a bit smaller than a modern day credit card. This card fits into a universal slot on any commlink, and it contains all the basic public information about the user. It sort of functions like today's driver's license. However, stealing someone's SIN-Card doesn't mean you've made off with their money and everything else that makes them who they are.

Basically, you have the equivalent of their driver's license. You can find out the person's name, home address, DOB, appearance, employer, and contact phone numbers/e-mail addresses. However, if you wish to make any financial transactions with their SIN, you still need to identify yourself as the SIN owner (usually via passcode, thumbprint, retinal scan, etc.).

What this means for you guys is that you can carry around more than one SIN without having to carry around a separate commlink for each one. All you have to do is hot swap the SIN cards, and your commlink now shows a new identity.
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
What this means for you guys is that you can carry around more than one SIN without having to carry around a separate commlink for each one. All you have to do is hot swap the SIN cards, and your commlink now shows a new identity.

How's that work for implanted commlinks?
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Aug 24 2007, 12:01 AM)
What this means for you guys is that you can carry around more than one SIN without having to carry around a separate commlink for each one.  All you have to do is hot swap the SIN cards, and your commlink now shows a new identity.

How's that work for implanted commlinks?

You'll need to carry around an external SIN Card reader/holder with wireless capability.

Fortune
Still thinking about a character, just so you know. wink.gif

Possibly a demo expert/long arms specialist (read sniper) biggrin.gif

What kind of cyber-packages can I get?
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Fortune)
Still thinking about a character, just so you know. wink.gif

Possibly a demo expert/long arms specialist (read sniper) biggrin.gif

What kind of cyber-packages can I get?

Doc Funk put together a custom cyberpackage that I reviewed and approved.

You can submit the same thing. And you better your chance of approval if you give the cyber/bio both make and model names. cool.gif

And a sniper guy would be great with a SpecOps Weapons Sgt. background. Demo, heavy weapons, etc. would all go along well with that character.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
For black-ops guys like you, an easily traced SIN is a huge liability. Any evidence you would end up leaving behind on a mission could be traced back to you. [...]

If that's really a concern for the government, there is an easier solution available as well. In the Genetech chapter of Augmentation there's a treatment called "Genewipe." It essentially makes it so that the implantee's DNA corrodes soon after leaving their body, making ritual material and DNA evidence useless after five minutes. Could be a new standard treatment for all black ops types. There's even an optional rule in the book that lets such treatments cost 0 Essence.

Just a suggestion/comment. smile.gif
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 23 2007, 12:36 PM)
QUOTE (TheOneRonin @ Aug 23 2007, 08:01 AM)
For black-ops guys like you, an easily traced SIN is a huge liability.  Any evidence you would end up leaving behind on a mission could be traced back to you. [...]

If that's really a concern for the government, there is an easier solution available as well. In the Genetech chapter of Augmentation there's a treatment called "Genewipe." It essentially makes it so that the implantee's DNA corrodes soon after leaving their body, making ritual material and DNA evidence useless after five minutes. Could be a new standard treatment for all black ops types. There's even an optional rule in the book that lets such treatments cost 0 Essence.

Just a suggestion/comment. smile.gif

True. And that probably would be an SOP treatment for Black Ops like you guys. However, it doesn't change your finger/thumb/palm prints, retinal patters, or keep someone from getting a blood sample once they have you in custody.

Of course, combine the "Fake gubmint created SIN" along with that treatment, and yes, assets become much more deniable.
Mister Juan
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
Remember that everyone needs to be at Special Ops level. A former FBI guy probably cut his teeth on Hostage Rescue, so he is gonna have some really good combative skills. After that, he would most likely have transitioned to Anti-Terror field work.

Yes indeed, but I was more thinking along the line that he would still have the "cop" mentality very much coded in him. Where a lot of military types will shoot to kill, he probably won't.

I'll work something out, write down a background, and send it to you today.
Email or posted on the boards?
TheOneRonin
Both (e-mail and posting) are fine...in fact, go ahead and do both. A little redundancy never hurt.

And I'm cool with him having more of a cop mentality than a soldier mentality. But just to be clear, for people trained to use firearms in a military or civil servant role, there is no such thing as "not shooting to kill". When you have reached the point that you are resorting to discharging your firearm, the situation has already reached that "lethal force" threshold. Every trained person I've met, bet they law enforcement or military or both, shoots to kill. If they didn't feel like killing was necessary and the only remaining option, they wouldn't be shooting in the first place.

TheOneRonin
As an addendum to my previous post, I would like to say that someone with a Military Combat Arms background might be more willing to escalate to the use of lethal force, or might resort to it earlier than someone with a Law Enforcement background. The rest of the team might pull their guns out before you do, but once yours are out, you will be shooting to kill. And if a badguy manages to survive but be incapacitated by your fire, then you might be more likely to attempt to subdue/capture him than just double-tap him.
Mister Juan
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
As an addendum to my previous post, I would like to say that someone with a Military Combat Arms background might be more willing to escalate to the use of lethal force, or might resort to it earlier than someone with a Law Enforcement background. The rest of the team might pull their guns out before you do, but once yours are out, you will be shooting to kill. And if a badguy manages to survive but be incapacitated by your fire, then you might be more likely to attempt to subdue/capture him than just double-tap him.

Yes, that was more my line of thinking.
Mister Juan
Here is what little I have up so far. It's a very rough first draft that I'll probably change around a lot.

[ Spoiler ]
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
And you better your chance of approval if you give the cyber/bio both make and model names.

Always do. smile.gif
Galedeep
Aaand...completely new character!

...What? I like to tinker.

Anyway, he'll cover some of the magical needs without lacking in the physical department. He'll probably be one of the more effective front-liners, most likely the best in melee, and he has a few other little tricks, like providing counterspelling and summoning very minor spirits, up his sleeve. Should be fun to play, anyway!


[ Spoiler ]
TheOneRonin
Okay, I'm going to make it official.

To be considered for this game, you need to submit your completed character sheet and brief character background by no later than Wednesday, 8.29.2007.

I'd like to start rolling dice the week after that. That should give me enough time to review all of the submissions and work with all of you to make changes.

Also, if this thread doesn't gain more interested, we might be working with a smaller team than I planned. If that is the case, I'll probably run an NPC Ex Delta Medical Sgt, so you guys have a lifesaver on the team.
TheOneRonin
I just want to recap some of character gen rules to make sure everyone is on the same track:


QUOTE
Character Generation:
600 BPs, 300 BPs max on Mental and Physical Attributes.

Metatypes:
Ork, Elf, or Dwarf costs 25 BPs.
Trolls won't be allowed for this game.

Attributes
Attributes cost 10 BPs up to 1 less than the normal racial maximum.
The point of normal racial maximum costs 25 points.


Skills
Skill groups cost 5 points, and may be purchased up to rating 5.
Individual Skills cost 2 BPs per die, and one of them can be brought to 6, three of them to 5, and all others capped at 4.
Specializations cost 1 BP

Knowledge/Language Skills are available free as normal (Logic x3 + Intuition x3) and can be purchased at the rate of 1 BP per point of Knowledge skill (keeping with the skills at half-cost model).
Fortune
Questions:

a) Do we have to supply our own Commlinks, or will (decent) 'links be supplied?

b) How does your reworking of the Armor rules affected implanted, or otherwise integral armors?

c) Even though you are not allowing the splitting of Skill Groups (not thrilled about this ruling, by the way, as coupled with your other house rules can tend to make things come out weird), are you allowing us to Specialize in Skills still within the Groups?

Probably more later ... smile.gif
Fortune
Oh, and I can't afford to be an elf! frown.gif
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Fortune)
Questions:

a) Do we have to supply our own Commlinks, or will (decent) 'links be supplied?


Commlinks will be supplied as part of your mission equipment package. You won't get bottom end 'links, but I can't guarantee everyone will get max rating hardware/OSs for reasons that will be clear in the briefing.


QUOTE
b) How does your reworking of the Armor rules affected implanted, or otherwise integral armors?


Basically, implanted armor stacks with worn armor, and follows the rules I posted on page 1 of this thread. Click on the spoiler link to see them. If that's not the details that you are looking for, please let me know and I'll try to answer your question to the best of my ability.
[ Spoiler ]



QUOTE
c) Even though you are not allowing the splitting of Skill Groups (not thrilled about this ruling, by the way, as coupled with your other house rules can tend to make things come out weird), are you allowing us to Specialize in Skills still within the Groups?


I'm not allowing the splitting of skill groups at initial character generation, but I will allow them to be split once the game starts, and quite possibly before your characters get finalized. From what I can tell, letting people buy skill groups up to a rating, then breaking them is just a sorta cheap way to milk some extra build points. And if a shortage of BPs is an issue, don't worry about that yet. You guys should be getting a few more to spread around before I kick this thing off. Also, if the BP/skill group stuff is causing real problems with your character concept, just PM me and I'd be glad to work with you on that.



QUOTE
Probably more later ... smile.gif


Send away. Though I probably won't be on the forums much this weekend.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
Basically, implanted armor stacks with worn armor, and follows the rules I posted on page 1 of this thread. Click on the spoiler link to see them. If that's not the details that you are looking for, please let me know and I'll try to answer your question to the best of my ability.

I think he's asking about some of the other options available, such as cyberlimb armor and whatnot.
Fortune
Yeah, there are quite a number of different Armor variations.

Thanks for the info. smile.gif

I do think your reworking (or lack thereof) of Orthoskin is a bit off, considering the costs in both Karma and nuyen involved.

Oh, and you didn't actually answer as to whether we can Specialize within Skill Groups (although I assume not). biggrin.gif

As for Commlinks, let me get this clear. You do not want us to purchase our own Commlink? Can we play with the makeup of the ones we are issued? Can we have a say in their physical form (ie. earring, watch, belt buckle, retro-i-pod, etc.)?
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Fortune)
Yeah, there are quite a number of different Armor variations.

Thanks for the info. smile.gif

I do think your reworking (or lack thereof) of Orthoskin is a bit off, considering the costs in both Karma and nuyen involved.


You know, it just occurred to me that you probably don't have my excel character sheet. It has all the updated Ware and Bio costs (both nuyen and essence) and stats.

If you stick by everything in the BBB, yes, my rules for Orthoskin don't make it worth getting. Give me your e-mail address and I'll send you my spreadsheet so you can see the actual costs for the implants.

For the record, yes, Ortho isn't nearly as effective protection as the other two implants. However, in my games it is cheaper than in the BBB, costs less essence than the other two options, and (most importantly) is not visibly detectable by non medical means. You take a hit on protection to get better concealability. And isn't that the principle that modern body armor works on?

QUOTE
Oh, and you didn't actually answer as to whether we can Specialize within Skill Groups (although I assume not). biggrin.gif


You assume correctly. At least, you can't do it with your first character draft. That doesn't mean I won't allow it later (before the game starts).


QUOTE
As for Commlinks, let me get this clear. You do not want us to purchase our own Commlink? Can we play with the makeup of the ones we are issued? Can we have a say in their physical form (ie. earring, watch, belt buckle, retro-i-pod, etc.)?



<Sigh>...I'm trying my best to avoid giving away too much of the story at this point. But keep a few things in mind when it comes to external gear. You do know that you guys will be going undercover as Shadowrunners. Do you think it might raise more than a few eyebrows in the Shadow Community if a bunch of super-skilled runners just appear on the scene with bleeding edge milspec gear? Will you get commlinks when your boots hit the ground? Yes. Will you have some input on what type of hardware/software you will be getting? Yes. Do you need to buy it beforehand with your starting resources? No. Will I guarantee you that the EXACT commlink/OS combo you want will be available as issued gear for this particular mission? No. The same goes for Firearms, melee weapons, armor, and any other piece of gear or gadget you may want.

I don't know what more I can say other than you guys have my word that you won't get screwed on gear. There will be some limits for this particular mission, and those make perfect sense within the mission parameters. No one is going to wake up naked in the street. I am not running that type of game.

If you still really want in but can't get past that hurdle, and don't mind having some of the initial story spoiled for you, go ahead and PM me and we can talk.
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 23 2007, 12:36 PM)
In the Genetech chapter of Augmentation there's a treatment called "Genewipe."  It essentially makes it so that the implantee's DNA corrodes soon after leaving their body, making ritual material and DNA evidence useless after five minutes.  Could be a new standard treatment for all black ops types.  There's even an optional rule in the book that lets such treatments cost 0 Essence.

True. And that probably would be an SOP treatment for Black Ops like you guys. However, it doesn't change your finger/thumb/palm prints, retinal patters, or keep someone from getting a blood sample once they have you in custody.

Of course, combine the "Fake gubmint created SIN" along with that treatment, and yes, assets become much more deniable.

Does that mean we all automatically get Genewipe cost-free (and more importantly, Essence-free)? biggrin.gif
Fortune
Email address is toxicspirt (at) gmail (dot) com

Much obliged. smile.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
I don't know what more I can say other than you guys have my word that you won't get screwed on gear. There will be some limits for this particular mission, and those make perfect sense within the mission parameters. No one is going to wake up naked in the street. I am not running that type of game.

If you still really want in but can't get past that hurdle, and don't mind having some of the initial story spoiled for you, go ahead and PM me and we can talk.

Dude! It's cool. smile.gif

I have lots more things to spend cash (or BPs) on than gear. wink.gif

I'm not trying to pry game info as much as get the clearest possible picture on what you are expecting from us, as well as the range of your limitations (which is a little difficult given your semi-revealed house rules).

I was pretty much done with the first draft (except for finalizing his bio), but if you have recalculated augmentations, then it looks like I am back to square one. biggrin.gif
Ol' Scratch
Hey! I want a spread sheet, too! <playful whine>

a.clockwork.lime (chilling at) gmail.com
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Fortune)

Dude! It's cool. smile.gif

I have lots more things to spend cash (or BPs) on than gear. wink.gif

I'm not trying to pry game info as much as get the clearest possible picture on what you are expecting from us, as well as the range of your limitations (which is a little difficult given your semi-revealed house rules).


True. And I'll try my best to post a compilation of my house rules on Monday. However, outside what I've posted here, there are very few of my house rules that directly affect character generation, especially when I'm preventing you guys from buying gear as part of chargen. Having my excel character sheet is just about all you will need. And if you guys want, I'll include my firearms spreadsheet as well.


QUOTE
I was pretty much done with the first draft (except for finalizing his bio), but if you have recalculated augmentations, then it looks like I am back to square one. biggrin.gif



I can understand that. However, I did put out a call for interest in my custom character sheet on page one of this thread.

QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
Nice to see this generating some interest.  Let me see if I can answer some of the basic questions posed here.

<snip>

I've changed the nuyen cost and effects of some pieces of cyber/bio, and I've changed the cost of many of the physad abilities.  I use a version of Blakkie's Excel character generator that I would be happy to e-mail out to everyone who needs it.  Also, if someone has a place they can host it, that would be even better.



I'm sending out much of what I have to those of you who have already given me your e-mail addresses. It would be ideal if there was a place I could upload these docs and just share out the link.

Fortune
Yeah, I saw that post, but I figured you would sum up the cyber changes if they were only minor, and if they were major you would have pimped it a bit more. nyahnyah.gif

The main reason I didn't ask for it then was that I have always had problems with Blakkie's excel stuff. Probably just me, but it's enough to make me hesitate in requesting it. smile.gif

Anyway, got your email, and now we'll see where that leads.
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
It would be ideal if there was a place I could upload these docs and just share out the link.

Couldn't you just make a crappy Yahoo! page?
Fortune
I know you have AIM, but you need to get on MSN Messenger like the rest of us (or Trillian). smile.gif
Ol' Scratch
MSN is for nerds. AIM for the win.
Cthulhudreams
Or you could use something like meebo (www.meebo.com) a web based front end for AIM, Yahoo, MSN and ICQ *all at once* smile.gif wink.gif

'dats what I do
Fortune
See my Trillian comment earlier. wink.gif
Ol' Scratch
I stand by my previous comment.
Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (Fortune @ Aug 26 2007, 09:36 PM)
See my Trillian comment earlier. wink.gif

Trillian requires that tedious installing stuff wink.gif YMMV, but people are often more receptive when the amount of work is minimized wink.gif

^_^

I'm trying to finish my character for (hopeful!) approval... I keep having the 'Aha, thats done! ... Oh bloody hell I've totally forgot XYZ completely critical skill. What negative quality can I reasonably add this time around?"

I just noticed I'd made an ex airborne guy with no parachuting skill frown.gif
Fortune
Submitted, and awaiting feedback.
Ol' Scratch
Transmitted mine as well via PM.
Fortune
Already making changes. embarrassed.gif
TheOneRonin
Okay...first off I'd like to thank you guys who have already submitted your characters. I can tell you've put a lot of work into them, and that sort of thing substantially adds to the game.

Secondly, seeing as I only have 5 people who have submitted characters, you guys are pretty much in. I won't close submissions before Wednesday, but if no one else sends me anything, you guys will be the team.

Thirdly, I've made a few changes to the plot, and have decided to go ahead and run the Medic NPC anyway. I know some of you cringe when you hear "GM PC", but you'll have to trust that this won't be one of those. This guy will serve a couple of purposes:

1. Be the medic. He will make sure you guys continue to live after being injured. You need a medic, and no one has really shown interest in playing one, so I won't force you guys to play him.

2. Plot device. I'll use him to release small bits of in-campaign info, and have him be a sort of sounding board for the rest of the team since he will be the oldest and most experienced.


What this guy isn't:

1. Ubercharacter/hero. He won't do any of your specialties better than you (aside from the medic stuff). He won't be unkillable, and he won't have any "see how awesome I am" scenes. You have my word.

2. The central character/leader. This guy is a career NCO...he has spent his life taking orders and working as a member of a team. He respects authority, and will do what he is asked. I won't be using him to railroad you guys, or to force you to follow a specific path. He isn't THE leader, and won't be bossing you guys around.

That said, I'll wrap his character info and post him here. There will also be a copy of his sheet in the OOC thread when the game starts.
TheOneRonin
Okay, here is the Medic I'll be running as an NPC.

Charles "Coach" LaSalle
ConsOps Team Medical Specialist
[ Spoiler ]
Fortune
QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
I know some of you cringe when you hear "GM PC", but you'll have to trust that this won't be one of those.

I'm pretty sure none of us are worried about it. Thanks for the concern though. smile.gif

By the way, I probably would have gone that way from the beginning if I had been the GM. wink.gif biggrin.gif

Hmmmmm ... a couple of days to tweak ...

*Must resist urge to tweak until background is done.*
Fortune
Can't seem to access those links, nor will the Airborne forum let me register. frown.gif
TheOneRonin
Hmmph...they are working fine for me, and I haven't registered on the site at all.

Let me know which schools you are interested in and I can e-mail the text to you.
Fortune
All of them. smile.gif

Still can't access them. I get a board message stating that the menu has been removed, no matter what link I click on the site. It's weird.
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