Greetings all. I'm starting this thread to gauge interest in a game I'm thinking about running. The basic premise is this:
The characters are all CAS Consular Operations operatives who are tasked with a long-term, deep cover mission that requires them to pose and behave as Shadowrunners. The game is going to be set mostly along the CAS Gulf coast area, and will be using 4th edition rules.
The kicker is, I have house rules for a LOT of things. Mostly, those rules center around firearms, armor, and combat. Plus I use thresholds way more than dice pool penalties for tests.
So if that doesn't scare you away, and this sounds interesting, let me know. I've got 5 slots to fill, and I want the team to have all of it's bases covered. Later on this week, I'll post my character gen rules, and then will probably give everyone until the middle of next week to write up their characters. So go ahead and sound off!
Full Version: Recruitment: Consular Operations
Hmmmmm. I've got a hankering to make a Jayne type character. 
Oh, that's just not right. I so totally would have called Jayne, except you took it.
*sigh*
I guess I'll go for the Wash, Mal, or Operative type then. Since you took the GOOD one. Jerk.
Color me interested.
*sigh*
I guess I'll go for the Wash, Mal, or Operative type then. Since you took the GOOD one. Jerk.
Color me interested.
LOL...I really like Firefly too, but I'll probably be heading in a bit different direction. Think Rainbow 6 + Bourne Identity. Highly trained operatives who work for the gubmint and get an assignment to play "Shadowrunner" for an undisclosed amount of time.
That having been said, Jayne's personality and delivery would certainly be a fantastic addition to the game.
That having been said, Jayne's personality and delivery would certainly be a fantastic addition to the game.
Heh heh, yeah, I was kidding...mostly. A physad based on the Operative might be fun, though. I'll see and get back to you.
Sounds like it could be a lot of fun! Do you have a link or list of your house rules, or what kind of character creation guidelines you'd be using?
I'll throw in a character
I'll toss in a character if you'll let me, some sort of ?/Hacker thing.
Personality really depends on some other factors: How 'gritty' is the idea you are tossing out? James bond is a pretty fluffy source and I'm not familiar with the other material you are proposing.
Edit: Err, wait, yes I am. Rainbow Six the novel? Bourne identify is a bit grittier than james bond I suppose
But jayne as an undercover mercenary, while hilarious is.. well... hilarious
So whats the tone?
Personality really depends on some other factors: How 'gritty' is the idea you are tossing out? James bond is a pretty fluffy source and I'm not familiar with the other material you are proposing.
Edit: Err, wait, yes I am. Rainbow Six the novel? Bourne identify is a bit grittier than james bond I suppose
But jayne as an undercover mercenary, while hilarious is.. well... hilarious
So whats the tone?
Nice to see this generating some interest. Let me see if I can answer some of the basic questions posed here.
As far as tone, this is going to be a very gritty game. Much more gritty than James Bond, so that was probably a poor choice for the title. The characters will all come from a Special Operations/SEAL/Delta/CIA field agent type background. Your primary training has been in counter-terror, both on the tactical-assault level, and on the intel-gathering, deep cover level. When I think about the skill sets and professional training, I see Jason Bourne, The Unit, Mission Impossible, etc. And yeah, if you've read Tom Clancy, Rainbow Six the novel is close. Those guys were more of reaction/SWAT type force. I'm looking for people that can move in, blend in with the enemy, gain his trust, then bring his operation down from the inside. John Clark from Clancy's books (specifically Without Remorse) is a great example.
While you will all be highly trained professionals, I'm not going to put any real restrictions on character background and personalities. You will HAVE to be able to work well with a team, and, because of the nature of the mission, your character shouldn't have a spouse or children. The brass isn't going to put family people on a 2+ year deep cover assignment.
As for character generation rules, here are some of the basics:
Character Generation:
600 BPs, 300 BPs max on Mental and Physical Attributes.
Metatypes:
Ork, Elf, or Dwarf costs 25 BPs.
Trolls won't be allowed for this game.
Attributes
Attributes cost 10 BPs up to 1 less than the normal racial maximum.
The point of normal racial maximum costs 25 points.
Skills
Skill groups cost 5 points, and may be purchased up to rating 5.
Individual Skills cost 2 BPs per die, and one of them can be brought to 6, three of them to 5, and all others capped at 4.
Specializations cost 1 BP
Knowledge/Language Skills are available free as normal (Logic x3 + Intuition x3) and can be purchased at the rate of 1 BP per point of Knowledge skill (keeping with the skills at half-cost model).
Wealth and Resources:
Lifestyle purchases are not necessary. The characters will have a house or apartment that Uncle Sam pays for, but they won't be seeing it for the duration of the mission. The "lifestyle" that the characters will be living in during the mission is something they will have to arrange once they have boots on the ground.
Do not spend money on equipment. That will be issued out at the beginning of the mission. You should, however, make a list of the equipment that the character most often uses/carries. You'll probably be able to request most of what you will need before the mission starts.
Cyber/Bio up to Beta grade is available. You'll need special dispensation from me for Delta grade stuff. Also, there is no other availability cap on Cyber/Bio.
For every 1 BP you spend on resources, you get 7000 nuyen.
Spend all of your resources. Any money left over evaporates. You will, however, all receive some "startup cred" before the mission begins.
I've changed the nuyen cost and effects of some pieces of cyber/bio, and I've changed the cost of many of the physad abilities. I use a version of Blakkie's Excel character generator that I would be happy to e-mail out to everyone who needs it. Also, if someone has a place they can host it, that would be even better.
Don't worry about contacts either. You guys will be in deep cover, and won't have access to any of the people you regularly work with, so Contacts will be something you form after your boots hit the ground.
I'll post more of my house rules once I have them more organized. And don't worry, if you've put together your character and my house rules have an unintended effect, I'll let you compensate. I won't consider a character sheet finalized until I've given everyone all of my house rules.
Also, if you need to contact me outside of the forums, you can catch me on AIM under the handle TheOneRonin, or you can e-mail me at chris.louviere@iem.com.
Please feel free to post any questions you might have about the game in this thread.
As far as tone, this is going to be a very gritty game. Much more gritty than James Bond, so that was probably a poor choice for the title. The characters will all come from a Special Operations/SEAL/Delta/CIA field agent type background. Your primary training has been in counter-terror, both on the tactical-assault level, and on the intel-gathering, deep cover level. When I think about the skill sets and professional training, I see Jason Bourne, The Unit, Mission Impossible, etc. And yeah, if you've read Tom Clancy, Rainbow Six the novel is close. Those guys were more of reaction/SWAT type force. I'm looking for people that can move in, blend in with the enemy, gain his trust, then bring his operation down from the inside. John Clark from Clancy's books (specifically Without Remorse) is a great example.
While you will all be highly trained professionals, I'm not going to put any real restrictions on character background and personalities. You will HAVE to be able to work well with a team, and, because of the nature of the mission, your character shouldn't have a spouse or children. The brass isn't going to put family people on a 2+ year deep cover assignment.
As for character generation rules, here are some of the basics:
Character Generation:
600 BPs, 300 BPs max on Mental and Physical Attributes.
Metatypes:
Ork, Elf, or Dwarf costs 25 BPs.
Trolls won't be allowed for this game.
Attributes
Attributes cost 10 BPs up to 1 less than the normal racial maximum.
The point of normal racial maximum costs 25 points.
Skills
Skill groups cost 5 points, and may be purchased up to rating 5.
Individual Skills cost 2 BPs per die, and one of them can be brought to 6, three of them to 5, and all others capped at 4.
Specializations cost 1 BP
Knowledge/Language Skills are available free as normal (Logic x3 + Intuition x3) and can be purchased at the rate of 1 BP per point of Knowledge skill (keeping with the skills at half-cost model).
Wealth and Resources:
Lifestyle purchases are not necessary. The characters will have a house or apartment that Uncle Sam pays for, but they won't be seeing it for the duration of the mission. The "lifestyle" that the characters will be living in during the mission is something they will have to arrange once they have boots on the ground.
Do not spend money on equipment. That will be issued out at the beginning of the mission. You should, however, make a list of the equipment that the character most often uses/carries. You'll probably be able to request most of what you will need before the mission starts.
Cyber/Bio up to Beta grade is available. You'll need special dispensation from me for Delta grade stuff. Also, there is no other availability cap on Cyber/Bio.
For every 1 BP you spend on resources, you get 7000 nuyen.
Spend all of your resources. Any money left over evaporates. You will, however, all receive some "startup cred" before the mission begins.
I've changed the nuyen cost and effects of some pieces of cyber/bio, and I've changed the cost of many of the physad abilities. I use a version of Blakkie's Excel character generator that I would be happy to e-mail out to everyone who needs it. Also, if someone has a place they can host it, that would be even better.
Don't worry about contacts either. You guys will be in deep cover, and won't have access to any of the people you regularly work with, so Contacts will be something you form after your boots hit the ground.
I'll post more of my house rules once I have them more organized. And don't worry, if you've put together your character and my house rules have an unintended effect, I'll let you compensate. I won't consider a character sheet finalized until I've given everyone all of my house rules.
Also, if you need to contact me outside of the forums, you can catch me on AIM under the handle TheOneRonin, or you can e-mail me at chris.louviere@iem.com.
Please feel free to post any questions you might have about the game in this thread.
If one had a previous existence in CAS, it would be *highly unwise* to contact anyone from said previous existence wouldn't it?
So Contacts are a bit of a moot point?
Edit: Also, availability, any limitations? Standard game, can wave some bigger 'ware around?
So Contacts are a bit of a moot point?
Edit: Also, availability, any limitations? Standard game, can wave some bigger 'ware around?
I'll try my best to clarify some of this stuff, but it will all make a lot more sense once the game starts and you guys get your mission briefing.
| QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) |
| If one had a previous existence in CAS, it would be *highly unwise* to contact anyone from said previous existence wouldn't it? |
Right. You guys will be on a long term, deep cover assignment. Anyone who knows your real identity will be a liability. However, that doesn't mean that you won't have any contacts at all. You will...but it will all be part of the game once it starts.
| QUOTE |
| So Contacts are a bit of a moot point? |
During character creation, yes. If there are some contacts you feel like you just HAVE to have, PM me so we can talk about it. But for now, my stance is "no contacts at chargen".
| QUOTE |
| Edit: Also, availability, any limitations? Standard game, can wave some bigger 'ware around? |
I covered most of this in my previous post, but it was a lot to read, so I don't mind answering this again.
Availability is pretty much irrelevant. You guys will be Consular Operations...that's the cream of the crop of the CAS Special Operations/Intelligence community. The Gubmint will spare no expense in making you the badest-asses on the block. That being said, I don't want you buying "gear". There is a reason for that, and it will all make sense once the game starts. Don't worry, though. I'm not going to pull the "you wake up in a jail cell with just a loin cloth" crap. You guys will start the mission with gear. You just won't get it pick it before hand.
Just a small note...I have the PDFs of Augmentation and Street Magic. I haven't really gotten intimate with all of those rules/options/gear choices yet, but I would be willing to consider them if you have an interest. I'll probably handle them on a case by case basis.
Here are my house rules for Armor. They tend to make a bit more sense when you pair them up with the revised firearm stats:
There are 4 types of armor categories
#1: Armored Clothing
#2: Armored Vests
#3: Body Armor
#4: Implanted Armor
Armored Clothing consists of advanced Kevlar material woven into common garments, offering a semi-sufficient level of protection against smaller caliber handgun rounds. While highly concealable, this armor normally does not have the thickness to absorb the majority of the energy delivered by most ammunition, so blunt trauma is very likely and can even be severe when delivered by ammunition like the 10mm Auto or 12 gauge slug. Use double the ballistic rating when determining whether a hit is Physical or Stun damage, but use the base ballistic rating when rolling the damage resistance test. This type of armor can be worn by anyone without penalty. Note that the modification to the Ballistic rating from a weapon's AP is added after the doubling.
Examples:
Securetech Clothing: 2/0 [full body, + head w/hood]
Securetech Long Coat: 3/0 [full body]
Securetech Jacket: 4/1 [torso+arms only]
Armored Vests are made out of the same material as armored clothing, but are designed to offer much better protection and energy dissipation. Vests can be concealed by clothing, however all but the lowest rating vest can be noticed by anyone who knows what he/she is looking for.
Level IIA vest: 3/1, no penalties [torso only]
Level II vest: 6/2, no penalties [torso only]
Level IIIA vest: 9/3, no penalties [torso only]
Body armor is non-concealable armor designed for military scale combat. It includes a series of ceramic ballistic-plate inserts that are designed to stop rifle fire in addition to stopping most other smaller caliber rounds. This armor also hampers movement somewhat.
Level III: 12/4, no penalties [torso, arms only]
Level IVA: 18/6, -1 die to agility tests [full coverage]
Level IV: 24/8, -2 dice to agility tests [full coverage]
Level V: 30/10, -4 dice to agility tests [full coverage]
Implanted armor
This type of armor comes in two categories. Dermal Plating/Sheathing and Orthoskin.
Dermal Plating/Sheathing consists of hard plastic and metal fibers bonded/woven into the users skin. This type of armor is very resistant to ballistic and impact threats, but doesn't completely cover the whole body, thus it is not generally as effective as worn armor. However, it is still highly resilient, and direct hits on the protected areas are usually 100% stopped.
Game Rules: Attacks with AP reduction never lower the rating of Dermal Plating/Sheathing. Also, dice from Plating/Sheathing are added directly to the rating of armor worn, and use that total to determine whether or not an attack does Physical or Stun damage. Dermal plating has thicker masses of fiber, but leaves many gaps. Sheathing has more entire coverage, but has less thickness and thus less impact protection.
Dermal Plating
-Class I: +2 Ballistic/+3 Impact
-Class II: +4 Ballistic/+6 Impact
-Class III: +6 Ballistic/+9 Impact
Dermal Sheathing
-Class I: +4 Ballistic/+2 Impact
-Class II: +6 Ballistic/+4 Impact
-Class III: +8 Ballistic/+6 Impact
Orthoskin is much less invasive, and the implant is completely unnoticeable without a medical examination. However, it is less protective than Dermal Plating/Sheathing, and is subject to rating reduction from AP attacks. Like Dermal Plating/Sheathing, add the rating of Orthoskin directly to the rating of worn armor to determine if an attack does physical or stun damage
Orthoskin
-Tier I: +1 body for dmg resist, +1 Ballistic/+1 Impact
-Tier II: +1 body for dmg resist, +2 Ballistic/+2 Impact
-Tier III: +1 body for dmg resist, +3 Ballistic/+3 Impact
There are 4 types of armor categories
#1: Armored Clothing
#2: Armored Vests
#3: Body Armor
#4: Implanted Armor
Armored Clothing consists of advanced Kevlar material woven into common garments, offering a semi-sufficient level of protection against smaller caliber handgun rounds. While highly concealable, this armor normally does not have the thickness to absorb the majority of the energy delivered by most ammunition, so blunt trauma is very likely and can even be severe when delivered by ammunition like the 10mm Auto or 12 gauge slug. Use double the ballistic rating when determining whether a hit is Physical or Stun damage, but use the base ballistic rating when rolling the damage resistance test. This type of armor can be worn by anyone without penalty. Note that the modification to the Ballistic rating from a weapon's AP is added after the doubling.
Examples:
Securetech Clothing: 2/0 [full body, + head w/hood]
Securetech Long Coat: 3/0 [full body]
Securetech Jacket: 4/1 [torso+arms only]
Armored Vests are made out of the same material as armored clothing, but are designed to offer much better protection and energy dissipation. Vests can be concealed by clothing, however all but the lowest rating vest can be noticed by anyone who knows what he/she is looking for.
Level IIA vest: 3/1, no penalties [torso only]
Level II vest: 6/2, no penalties [torso only]
Level IIIA vest: 9/3, no penalties [torso only]
Body armor is non-concealable armor designed for military scale combat. It includes a series of ceramic ballistic-plate inserts that are designed to stop rifle fire in addition to stopping most other smaller caliber rounds. This armor also hampers movement somewhat.
Level III: 12/4, no penalties [torso, arms only]
Level IVA: 18/6, -1 die to agility tests [full coverage]
Level IV: 24/8, -2 dice to agility tests [full coverage]
Level V: 30/10, -4 dice to agility tests [full coverage]
Implanted armor
This type of armor comes in two categories. Dermal Plating/Sheathing and Orthoskin.
Dermal Plating/Sheathing consists of hard plastic and metal fibers bonded/woven into the users skin. This type of armor is very resistant to ballistic and impact threats, but doesn't completely cover the whole body, thus it is not generally as effective as worn armor. However, it is still highly resilient, and direct hits on the protected areas are usually 100% stopped.
Game Rules: Attacks with AP reduction never lower the rating of Dermal Plating/Sheathing. Also, dice from Plating/Sheathing are added directly to the rating of armor worn, and use that total to determine whether or not an attack does Physical or Stun damage. Dermal plating has thicker masses of fiber, but leaves many gaps. Sheathing has more entire coverage, but has less thickness and thus less impact protection.
Dermal Plating
-Class I: +2 Ballistic/+3 Impact
-Class II: +4 Ballistic/+6 Impact
-Class III: +6 Ballistic/+9 Impact
Dermal Sheathing
-Class I: +4 Ballistic/+2 Impact
-Class II: +6 Ballistic/+4 Impact
-Class III: +8 Ballistic/+6 Impact
Orthoskin is much less invasive, and the implant is completely unnoticeable without a medical examination. However, it is less protective than Dermal Plating/Sheathing, and is subject to rating reduction from AP attacks. Like Dermal Plating/Sheathing, add the rating of Orthoskin directly to the rating of worn armor to determine if an attack does physical or stun damage
Orthoskin
-Tier I: +1 body for dmg resist, +1 Ballistic/+1 Impact
-Tier II: +1 body for dmg resist, +2 Ballistic/+2 Impact
-Tier III: +1 body for dmg resist, +3 Ballistic/+3 Impact
You must have really rewritten the firearms system if people can reasonably wear 30 points of armor. 
This really does sound more and more interesting. Two questions, though:
1. Did I read you right? We're free to be from different organizations and backgrounds as long as it would be logical choices for such a cross-organization operation? Or were the SEAL/Delta/CIA/etc. bits just an example of who we might work for but has yet to be decided? If the former, are they only going to be pulling from CAS organizations or is it a national or even international operation? (I'm not quit sure what "consular" means in this context.)
2. How does the gear assignments work with fetishes, geasa and foci (and especially the latter's bonding requirements)? I was leaning towards submitting an idea for a special ops combat sorcerer type of character, so that's a pretty important consideration for me.
1. Did I read you right? We're free to be from different organizations and backgrounds as long as it would be logical choices for such a cross-organization operation? Or were the SEAL/Delta/CIA/etc. bits just an example of who we might work for but has yet to be decided? If the former, are they only going to be pulling from CAS organizations or is it a national or even international operation? (I'm not quit sure what "consular" means in this context.)
2. How does the gear assignments work with fetishes, geasa and foci (and especially the latter's bonding requirements)? I was leaning towards submitting an idea for a special ops combat sorcerer type of character, so that's a pretty important consideration for me.
Can't wait to read the rest. I have my fellow finished up for the most part, but he relies pretty heavily on slinging guns, heh heh. Oh, and as for equipment; though he's all about some in-your-face badassery, there were points left over to make him a relatively skilled hacker as well. Would programs and such that are twinked out be considered equipment, or should I sacrifice some of his precious 'ware to get them?
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| You must have really rewritten the firearms system if people can reasonably wear 30 points of armor. |
Haha...yeah...you would think so. Like I said, it makes a lot more sense when you have the firearm chart in front of you.
In general, you'll see the handgun stats remaining somewhat similar to the main book, with the biggest changes being visible with ARs, MGs, and Sniper/AM rifles. Let me give you some examples:
Handguns
Ares Predator IV
-Caliber: 10mm Auto
-Range: Heavy Pistol
-Ammo: 13©
-Mode: SA
-Damage: 5P
-AP: -
-Weight: 1.9kg
-Notes: Fullsize, smartlink
HK USP45C
-Caliber: 45 ACP
-Range: Medium Pistol
-Ammo: 8©
-Mode: SA
-Damage: 4P
-AP: +2
-Weight: .72 kg
-Notes: Compact
Glock 26
-Caliber: 9mm
-Range: Light Pistol
-Ammo: 12©
-Mode: SA
-Damage: 3P
-AP: -
-Weight: .56 kg
-Notes: Subcompact
SMGs
FN P90
-Caliber: 5.7mm
-Range: Light Carbine
-Ammo: 50©
-Mode: SA/FA
-Damage: 2P
-AP: -5
-Weight: 2.50 kg
-Notes: Bullpup, Reflex Sight (counts as laser sight)
HK MP5k PDW
-Caliber: 9mm
-Range: Medium Pistol
-Ammo: 15/30©
-Mode: SA/FA
-Damage: 3P
-AP: -
-Weight: 2.8 kg
-Notes: Folding Stock, Compact SMG
Ingram Smartgun
-Caliber: 9mm
-Range: SMG
-Ammo: 32©
-Mode: SA/BF/FA
-Damage: 3P
-AP: -
-Weight: 2.7 kg
-Notes: Detachable Suppressor, Smartlink, Folding Stock
Assault/Battle Rifles
Ares Alpha
-Caliber: 7.62x51mm/20mm AGL
-Range: LMG/GL
-Ammo: 30©/4(m)
-Mode: SA/BF/FA
-Damage: 6P/as Grenade type
-AP: -9/as Grenade type
-Weight: 4.8 kg
-Notes: Bullpup, Smartlink, Grenade link, recoil reduction system
FN SCAR-L
-Caliber: 5.56x45mm
-Range: Assault Rifle
-Ammo: 30©
-Mode: SA/BF/FA
-Damage: 3P
-AP: -6
-Weight: 3.8 kg
-Notes: Reflex Sight
Colt M23 Whisper
-Caliber: .300 Whisper
-Range: Assault Rifle
-Ammo: 30©
-Mode: SA/BF/FA
-Damage: 5P
-AP: -3
-Weight: 3.75 kg
-Notes: Integrally Suppressed, Smartlink
Sniper Rifles
HK PSG-1
-Caliber: 7.62x51mm NATO
-Range: Sniper Rifle
-Ammo: 5©/20©
-Mode: SA
-Damage: 6P
-AP: -9
-Weight: 8.1 kg
-Notes: Imaging Scope
Remington M40
-Caliber: 7.62x51mm NATO
-Range: Sniper Rifle
-Ammo: 5(m)
-Mode: SS
-Damage: 6P
-AP: -9
-Weight: 6.57 kg
-Notes: Imaging Scope, -1 Threshold @ Long and Extreme Ranges
Ranger Arms SM3
-Caliber: .338 Winchester Magnum
-Range: Sniper Rifle
-Ammo: 6©
-Mode: SA
-Damage: 8P
-AP: -15
-Weight: 5.5 kg
-Notes: Imaging Scope w/lowlight+thermo, Bipod, +2 recoil
Whew...that took a while. As you can see, battlefield level weapons tend to fare VERY well against personal armor. And I didn't even bother posting my AMR stats...those things pretty much ignore personal armor altogether.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| This really does sound more and more interesting. Two questions, though: 1. Did I read you right? We're free to be from different organizations and backgrounds as long as it would be logical choices for such a cross-organization operation? Or were the SEAL/Delta/CIA/etc. bits just an example of who we might work for but has yet to be decided? If the former, are they only going to be pulling from CAS organizations or is it a national or even international operation? (I'm not quit sure what "consular" means in this context.) |
Sort of. In my campaign world, CAS Consular Operations is pretty much the top echelon Counter-Terror/Field Intelligence agency in the country. They actively recruit from CAS Special Operations Command (inc CAG[Delta], Green Berets, SEALs, Air Force Combat Controllers & PJs, Marine Force Recon, etc.) and from the CAS FBI, CIA, and NSA field agents. Those jobs are what you did before joining ConsOps. All of the characters are going to be ConsOps agents...probably with 2-5 years in the agency already. Adding that to your background probably means no one should be under 30-35 years of age.
(since I didn't answer your question completely the first time)
ConsOps is a CAS only agency. They pull assets from CAS government/military/LE organizations only. No international or corporate personnel. They will often do joint ops with the UCAS and other countries, but they are all CAS locals.
| QUOTE |
| 2. How does the gear assignments work with fetishes, geasa and foci (and especially the latter's bonding requirements)? I was leaning towards submitting an idea for a special ops combat sorcerer type of character, so that's a pretty important consideration for me. |
Treat anything that has to be bonded the same way you treat cyber/bio. It's not stuff that be just checked out from supply when you need it. It is yours, and not mission specific.
| QUOTE (Galedeep) |
| Can't wait to read the rest. I have my fellow finished up for the most part, but he relies pretty heavily on slinging guns, heh heh. Oh, and as for equipment; though he's all about some in-your-face badassery, there were points left over to make him a relatively skilled hacker as well. Would programs and such that are twinked out be considered equipment, or should I sacrifice some of his precious 'ware to get them? |
Programs for Hackers will be provided just like Guns and Ammo. If your character is a hardcore hacker (high software/programming skills), then I will probably let you start with a handful of your own custom written progs that will have a higher rating than what Uncle Sam gives you.
When putting your characters together, keep in mind a few things:
1. Your Job = Gather Intel and Deal with Badguys. That means you need to be part spy and part John Wayne. Everyone in ConsOps has the tactical competency to be a SWAT shooter, and can pull off "undercover cop" shit. If you can't do those things, ConsOps doesn't want you.
2. Generalize/Specialize. For this to work, you guys have to do both. You should have a core set of skills that lets you shoot, move, and communicate. Everyone should have some firearms skill, Athletics, some social skills, and perception, at the very least. You should also have something that separates you from the rest of your team. Either a skillset that the others do not have, or a skillset that is leaps and bounds better than the rest.
For example, everyone should have First Aid. But the team Medic should be able to do anything up to major heart surgery.
Or you might have one character that is ESPECIALLY skilled in Interrogation/HUMINT.
You might even have someone from a heavy Law Enforcement background that has a lot of experience dealing with the Criminal Underworld.
1. Your Job = Gather Intel and Deal with Badguys. That means you need to be part spy and part John Wayne. Everyone in ConsOps has the tactical competency to be a SWAT shooter, and can pull off "undercover cop" shit. If you can't do those things, ConsOps doesn't want you.
2. Generalize/Specialize. For this to work, you guys have to do both. You should have a core set of skills that lets you shoot, move, and communicate. Everyone should have some firearms skill, Athletics, some social skills, and perception, at the very least. You should also have something that separates you from the rest of your team. Either a skillset that the others do not have, or a skillset that is leaps and bounds better than the rest.
For example, everyone should have First Aid. But the team Medic should be able to do anything up to major heart surgery.
Or you might have one character that is ESPECIALLY skilled in Interrogation/HUMINT.
You might even have someone from a heavy Law Enforcement background that has a lot of experience dealing with the Criminal Underworld.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| You must have really rewritten the firearms system if people can reasonably wear 30 points of armor. |
One thing of note is that 30 points of armor is something akin to Heavy Rigid Plate armor that is really only practical on the battlefield. Sure, you need an AMR to reliably kill those guys, but you will be drawing fire from Drone and Vehicle mounted .50 cals anyway.
And if you don't mind walking around looking like an astronaut, it can work...
Skill set guidance:
Here is an example of how you guys should be building your characters. The following text comes from the US Army's webiste and lists skills and requirements for a Special Forces Medical Sergeant.
Here is an example of how you guys should be building your characters. The following text comes from the US Army's webiste and lists skills and requirements for a Special Forces Medical Sergeant.
| QUOTE |
| Special Forces Teams are among the most specialized combat forces in the Army. They experience rigorous mental and physical training in order to carry out their missions in a quick and extremely effective manner. The Special Forces Medical Sergeant is a crucial member of this team and must be ready to perform a variety of tasks anywhere in the world on a moment's notice. Special Forces Soldiers in the Army will conduct offensive raids, demolitions, intelligence, search and rescue and other missions from air, land or sea. Special Forces Medical Sergeants are considered to be the finest first-response/trauma medical technicians in the world. Though they're primarily trained with an emphasis on trauma medicine, they also have a working knowledge of dentistry, veterinary care, public sanitation, water quality and optometry. Some of your duties as a Special Forces Medical Sergeant may include: * Ensuring detachment medical preparation * Maintaining medical equipment and supplies * Providing examination and care to detachment members * Providing initial medical screening and evaluation of allied and indigenous personnel * Instructing and performing land and water navigation duties * Ordering, storing, cataloging and safeguarding medical supplies * Supervising medical care and treatment during missions * Operating a combat laboratory and treating emergency and trauma patients * Developing and providing medical intelligence as required REQUIREMENTS Special Operations Forces have very demanding physical requirements. Good eyesight, night vision, and physical conditioning are required to reach mission objectives via parachute, land or water. Also required is excellent hand-eye coordination to detonate or deactivate explosives. In most instances, Special Operations Forces Team Members are required to be qualified divers, parachutists and endurance runners. TRAINING Due to the wide variety of missions, Special Operations Medical Sergeants are trained swimmers, paratroopers and survival experts, as well as trained in many forms of combat. Training for the Special Operations Medical Sergeant consists of 60 weeks of formal classroom training and practice exercises. Some of the skills you'll learn are: * Physical conditioning, parachuting, swimming and scuba diving * Using land warfare weapons and communications devices * Handling and using explosives * Bomb and mine disposal |
I'm not saying that anyone HAS to play a SpecOps medic, or that the whole team has to have an Army SpecOps background. However, each character should be much more well rounded and more highly trained than your average Shadowrunner.
A lot of you are going to find yourselves running out of BPs, especially when trying to make sure you have all of your skill bases covered. Fret not, for after your initial build, I'll most likely be allowing each person to spend an additional pool of skill-only BPs. I'll determine exactly how many BPs that will be AFTER I get initial character submissions.
Here's Saturday thus far. Edits to come.
[ Spoiler ]
CHARGEN UPDATE:
After thinking about it, I upped the BP allocation to 600 points.
Also, here is a list of skills/skill groups that everyone needs to have, and the minimum rating for such. I will allow certain exceptions on a case by case basis.
Athletics: 4
Close Combat: 3
Firearms: 5
Influence: 3
Outdoor: 4
Stealth: 4
After thinking about it, I upped the BP allocation to 600 points.
Also, here is a list of skills/skill groups that everyone needs to have, and the minimum rating for such. I will allow certain exceptions on a case by case basis.
Athletics: 4
Close Combat: 3
Firearms: 5
Influence: 3
Outdoor: 4
Stealth: 4
I'm liking this more and more. Not only for the concept but because of the amount of work and thought you've put into everything.
With all the information presented at present, I think I'm going to change my concept to an ork rigger and communications/electronic warfare specialist. Have a really nice background already worked up and will try and submit something in the next day or two once I hash him out a little better.
With all the information presented at present, I think I'm going to change my concept to an ork rigger and communications/electronic warfare specialist. Have a really nice background already worked up and will try and submit something in the next day or two once I hash him out a little better.
Doctor Funkenstein, you ain't seen nothin' yet. I spoke to him earlier on AIM, and he's got some 60 weapons statted out. This game looks amazing, and he really knows his stuff.
| QUOTE (TheOneRonin) |
| One thing of note is that 30 points of armor is something akin to Heavy Rigid Plate armor that is really only practical on the battlefield. Sure, you need an AMR to reliably kill those guys, but you will be drawing fire from Drone and Vehicle mounted .50 cals anyway. And if you don't mind walking around looking like an astronaut, it can work... |
It's cool, and I wasn't bitching or anything.
The little snippet on firearms you posted helped a great deal.
Unfortunately, this is looking more and more like a game that a Jayne-type character just wouldn't reasonably fit into. The social requirements are the biggest barrier.
Or his personality could be the reason he was "volunteered" for the operation.
Doc: Would a Bio sammie/hacker that can rig a bit be treading on your toes to much?
Note: When I say a bit, has a control rig, gunnery 4 and two pilot skills.. at 4. Cracking and electronics at 5.
The only 'problem' with this is I think there is going to be quite some overlap between characters as generated!
Note: When I say a bit, has a control rig, gunnery 4 and two pilot skills.. at 4. Cracking and electronics at 5.
The only 'problem' with this is I think there is going to be quite some overlap between characters as generated!
There's supposed to be a degree of redundancy. Generalists and Specialists.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| There's supposed to be a degree of redundancy. Generalists and Specialists. |
Excellent! That's cool, just didn't want to charge in without asking
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
It's cool, and I wasn't bitching or anything. |
Yeah, I didn't think you were. I know sometimes it is hard to visualize how a houserule is gonna work until you see how it fits in with the rest of the house rules. Of course, jamming just my Armor rules into an otherwise canon SR4 game WOULD make a big mess of things.
| QUOTE |
| The little snippet on firearms you posted helped a great deal. |
Glad to hear it. It will make even more sense once you see the rest of them.
| QUOTE |
| Unfortunately, this is looking more and more like a game that a Jayne-type character just wouldn't reasonably fit into. The social requirements are the biggest barrier. |
Well, I've watched all the Firefly episodes out there, and I've seen Serenity, and I don't think that a "Jayne" character concept is unworkable. He wasn't the most friendly sort, but he did know how to blend in with his element. Just remove the complete lack of loyalty, and you have something workable.
You guys will notice that there will be a lot of overlap. That is by design. There are certain things that everyone in the team needs to be good at. Other skill sets might be less common across the entire group, but still exist across two different characters.
However, we do want to make sure we have all the bases covered. I don't want there to be any major skillset/ability lacking across the team.
Let me sleep on it, and tomorrow I'll post a list of the specialties that you guys need to have covered. Outside of that, the sky is the limit.
However, we do want to make sure we have all the bases covered. I don't want there to be any major skillset/ability lacking across the team.
Let me sleep on it, and tomorrow I'll post a list of the specialties that you guys need to have covered. Outside of that, the sky is the limit.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 22 2007, 09:27 AM) |
| Or his personality could be the reason he was "volunteered" for the operation. |
Unless there's a need for an 'outside position' as it were, I just don't see my concept as being viable in the social situations. I mean, I would be had-pressed to explain Etiquette of 1, let alone the whole Influence Group at 3. I could see Leadership and Intimidation as his only social abilities, with Leadership being a very distant second.
You always have the option of going with a similar personality that's not as abrasive as Jayne's. Classic movie/game special ops teams always have that joker kind of character, afterall. There's always the option to come up with a completely new concept altogether, too.
Personally, I find basing characters on other influences is a lot more fun than trying to duplicate someone exactly.
There's always the option to come up with a completely new concept altogether, too.Personally, I find basing characters on other influences is a lot more fun than trying to duplicate someone exactly.
| QUOTE (TheOneRonin) |
| He wasn't the most friendly sort, but he did know how to blend in with his element. |
Not in any Firefly episode I saw. Just reference the Hospital scene and the hours of practice it took for Jayne to learn his one line ... and then his not knowing when to shut his mouth and not say the line when the scene required improvising.
As I said above, I just don't envision the character having the necessary social skills that you outlined as a requirement. Unless he was a sniper-type, overwatch dude, which was Jayne's role in a lot of situations anyway.
Too bad, 'cause the game sounds cool. I just have a concept in my head, and won't be satisfied with just throwing the social skills on top in an arbitrary fashion, as it just wouldn't be a good fit.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| You always have the option of going with a similar personality that's not as abrasive as Jayne's. Classic movie/game special ops teams always have that joker kind of character, afterall. There's always the option to come up with a completely new concept altogether, too. |
I understand what you are saying, but haven't you ever had a concept stuck in your head that you really want to play? The lack, or at least low level of social skills is a core to that concept, and to change it would change the concept so the character is not the same as the one that you envision.
| QUOTE |
| Personally, I find basing characters on other influences is a lot more fun than trying to duplicate someone exactly. |
It isn't about copying Jayne exactly. Using Jayne is just the easiest way to get people to quickly envision the type of character concept I was suggesting.
Sure, I've had concepts stuck in my head. But sometimes they just don't work in a given setting. I mean, seriously, how would someone like that have gotten very far in the military or government organization? Especially into a special ops team?
A born-and-bred runner who was kicked out of the military for his attitude? Sure, that would totally rock with that type of a concept, but I don't think it really fits in well here. At least not as protrayed on Firefly.
A born-and-bred runner who was kicked out of the military for his attitude? Sure, that would totally rock with that type of a concept, but I don't think it really fits in well here. At least not as protrayed on Firefly.
Hence my post(s) above stating that I didn't think the concept would work. 
Your mom.
Still got an opened spot?
If there is still an open slot, I'd really like to play. I was thinking something along the lines of an ex-CASMC officer - the charismatic sort.
- Scope_47
- Scope_47
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Your mom. |
She probably wouldn't have like the concept.
Having spoken to Theoneronin about that, a Jayne type might work. He's flexible on the numbers; for example, my fellow hasn't got the necessary skill groups, but he has the certain skills with specialties, so that he still has a similar level of skill.
If "Jayne" focused on Intimidation, some sort of street-level or mercenary etiquette, and some limited leadership (depending on the situation, heh heh) and it might work. You just have to MAKE it work, and talk with Theoneronin about it. He's a pretty flexible guy when it comes to that sort of thing.
He did mention some coming from dirty, undercover cop work, and Jayne would fit right in to a grungy mercenary group, mingling to get information over a mug or eight of mudders milk, eh?
He'd just have to seriously kick some tail to make it worth keeping someone like that around, heh.
If "Jayne" focused on Intimidation, some sort of street-level or mercenary etiquette, and some limited leadership (depending on the situation, heh heh) and it might work. You just have to MAKE it work, and talk with Theoneronin about it. He's a pretty flexible guy when it comes to that sort of thing.
He did mention some coming from dirty, undercover cop work, and Jayne would fit right in to a grungy mercenary group, mingling to get information over a mug or eight of mudders milk, eh?
He'd just have to seriously kick some tail to make it worth keeping someone like that around, heh.
To stake out some turf, I'm thinking a Department of Strategic Intelligence ELINT and HUMINT who has spend the last year sitting on the corporate intelligence desk. Who is now bored. And whats to do something else. Now.
Background will probably be an infantry officer who was given an intelligence function straight out of whatever the CAS equivalent of west point... The Citadel looks like a likely candidate. Was given an intelligence job with his commission, and was then poached out of the military by DSI.
Tossing up between and elf, human or orc. Race isn't really central to my concept so I'm just throwing it against the wall to see what sticks.
Personality is a highly intelligent adrenaline junkie who enjoys high stress situations. The higher stress the better. Note the difference between high stress and high risk however. Motto is "a pint of sweat saves a quart of blood, and brains save both"
Background will probably be an infantry officer who was given an intelligence function straight out of whatever the CAS equivalent of west point... The Citadel looks like a likely candidate. Was given an intelligence job with his commission, and was then poached out of the military by DSI.
[ Spoiler ]
Tossing up between and elf, human or orc. Race isn't really central to my concept so I'm just throwing it against the wall to see what sticks.
Personality is a highly intelligent adrenaline junkie who enjoys high stress situations. The higher stress the better. Note the difference between high stress and high risk however. Motto is "a pint of sweat saves a quart of blood, and brains save both"
I thought I might as well expand on my character concept, too.
I'll be submitting Nikolai "Nick" Rozhenko, a goblinized ork of Russian descent, who was last assigned to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment "Night Stalkers" in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. He's middle aged for an ork and a highly decorated chief warrant officer (CW5). He has certification as a Tactical Unmanned Vehicle Operator (350K), Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Technician (353T), Special Forces Warrant Officer (180A), and multiple Aviation Pilots (152-155), and could probably qualify for a few others. Additionally, he's cross-trained with multiple special ops groups around the world including the Spetznaz Alfas in Moscow and the SASR Sabre Squadron in Sydney. His most notable achievement was the taking on of a dragon in Israel with nothing more than an unarmed air taxi. It cost him his bird, his arm and damn near the rest of hi, too, but he succeeded in not only eliminating the dragon but in saving his team in the process.
[As a side note, I hope that made at least a little sense.]
I'm thinking he was chosen for this duty due to some trouble in his teenaged years and the fact that his grandfather was an underboss in the Vory v Zakone. Once told of the operation, he was eager to join not only due to the reasons behind it, but because of the thrill of it all. Those daredevils in the Night Stalkers have a reputation for being a little off-kelter that way, don't you know.
I'll be submitting Nikolai "Nick" Rozhenko, a goblinized ork of Russian descent, who was last assigned to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment "Night Stalkers" in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. He's middle aged for an ork and a highly decorated chief warrant officer (CW5). He has certification as a Tactical Unmanned Vehicle Operator (350K), Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Technician (353T), Special Forces Warrant Officer (180A), and multiple Aviation Pilots (152-155), and could probably qualify for a few others. Additionally, he's cross-trained with multiple special ops groups around the world including the Spetznaz Alfas in Moscow and the SASR Sabre Squadron in Sydney. His most notable achievement was the taking on of a dragon in Israel with nothing more than an unarmed air taxi. It cost him his bird, his arm and damn near the rest of hi, too, but he succeeded in not only eliminating the dragon but in saving his team in the process.
[As a side note, I hope that made at least a little sense.]
I'm thinking he was chosen for this duty due to some trouble in his teenaged years and the fact that his grandfather was an underboss in the Vory v Zakone. Once told of the operation, he was eager to join not only due to the reasons behind it, but because of the thrill of it all. Those daredevils in the Night Stalkers have a reputation for being a little off-kelter that way, don't you know.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Hence my post(s) above stating that I didn't think the concept would work. |
Well, I've slept on it, and as much as I'd like to see "Jayne" in my game, I'm going to go ahead and agree with you that he, as he is in your mind, probably won't work.
This team has got to be able to fit in and deal with all kinds of people on all levels. Jayne is too good at rubbing people the wrong way...that is his nature. And it's difficult to gather intel on the enemy when you piss off those you are working for.
At any rate, Fortune, I'd still like to see you in my game if are interested. If you have to play Jayne...then let me know what game you get into so I can sign up to play as well.
The stuff I'm seeing looks good so far. Here are a couple of points to keep in mind:
1. Though everyone on the team comes from some sort of military/gubmint background, you all have been with ConsOps for at least two years. In fact, you have all worked together, as a team, on at least one other operation.
2. Everyone should have at least 10-15 years of experience in his/her chosen field. Your characters should pretty much be older than the kind of shadowrunners you are used to playing.
3. I'm flexible with just about everything. If I say "you need to have XWY", I'll be more than happy to listen to whatever alternative you might propose. I won't always say yes, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to what you have to say.
4. All 5 slots are currently open. I have not settled on any characters/players yet. In fact, I will not be making a permanent roster until after everyone has submitted an approved character. The character submission deadline will probably be sometime next week. I'll give a firm date before the end of this week.
When putting your characters together, you all need, as a team to have several bases covered. In a Traditional™ SR game, those bases are usually referred to by their archetype names (i.e. Samurai, Mage, Face, Hacker, Rigger, etc.). That being said, this is not a traditional game. The following is a list of the skill sets that must be present for the team to be able to complete its mission. There will (should) be some overlap, so don't be too worried about duping some skills. However, some of you may need to revise your concepts to make sure all of the needs are filled.
At least one specialist for each of the following skillsets
1. Communications (EW, Hacking, traditional comms)
2. Surveillance/Counter-surveillance/Intel gathering and analysis (Interrogation too)
3. Magical Support (specifically defense against threats and other things only magic can do)
4. Team Leadership (with skills/background to support leadership role)
5. Team Medical Expert
The following skill sets should be present amongst all team members:
1. High level of Marksmanship with conventional small arms
2. Top athletic shape (at least College Athlete level)
3. Ability to adapt to varied social situations and blend in with diff social groups
4. Ability to engage threats and defeat them in hand-to-hand combat
5. Ability to perform mission regardless of environment (woodland, desert, urban, etc.)
6. Ability to operate independent of any support, supply, or reinforcement
7. Ability to move quietly and remain unseen/undetected by the enemy.
8. Ability to administer immediate emergency care in the event of woundings
In an earlier post, I listed required skill groups and their minimum ratings. You don't have to follow those exactly, as long as your character meets the above criteria. Check with me for confirmation.
1. Though everyone on the team comes from some sort of military/gubmint background, you all have been with ConsOps for at least two years. In fact, you have all worked together, as a team, on at least one other operation.
2. Everyone should have at least 10-15 years of experience in his/her chosen field. Your characters should pretty much be older than the kind of shadowrunners you are used to playing.
3. I'm flexible with just about everything. If I say "you need to have XWY", I'll be more than happy to listen to whatever alternative you might propose. I won't always say yes, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to what you have to say.
4. All 5 slots are currently open. I have not settled on any characters/players yet. In fact, I will not be making a permanent roster until after everyone has submitted an approved character. The character submission deadline will probably be sometime next week. I'll give a firm date before the end of this week.
When putting your characters together, you all need, as a team to have several bases covered. In a Traditional™ SR game, those bases are usually referred to by their archetype names (i.e. Samurai, Mage, Face, Hacker, Rigger, etc.). That being said, this is not a traditional game. The following is a list of the skill sets that must be present for the team to be able to complete its mission. There will (should) be some overlap, so don't be too worried about duping some skills. However, some of you may need to revise your concepts to make sure all of the needs are filled.
At least one specialist for each of the following skillsets
1. Communications (EW, Hacking, traditional comms)
2. Surveillance/Counter-surveillance/Intel gathering and analysis (Interrogation too)
3. Magical Support (specifically defense against threats and other things only magic can do)
4. Team Leadership (with skills/background to support leadership role)
5. Team Medical Expert
[ Spoiler ]
The following skill sets should be present amongst all team members:
1. High level of Marksmanship with conventional small arms
2. Top athletic shape (at least College Athlete level)
3. Ability to adapt to varied social situations and blend in with diff social groups
4. Ability to engage threats and defeat them in hand-to-hand combat
5. Ability to perform mission regardless of environment (woodland, desert, urban, etc.)
6. Ability to operate independent of any support, supply, or reinforcement
7. Ability to move quietly and remain unseen/undetected by the enemy.
8. Ability to administer immediate emergency care in the event of woundings
In an earlier post, I listed required skill groups and their minimum ratings. You don't have to follow those exactly, as long as your character meets the above criteria. Check with me for confirmation.
| QUOTE (TheOneRonin) |
| I'd still like to see you in my game if are interested. If you have to play Jayne...then let me know what game you get into so I can sign up to play as well. |
Just might end up doing both if I can come up with a decent concept for this game. We'll see what I can come up with. As for the Jayne-type, I still want to play him sometime, so we'll have to wait and see what comes up.
Just some tidbits about the game. It will be set in June, 2071, and the mission briefing will be in Atlanta...probably in whatever is the CAS equivalent of the Pentagon.
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