...@Enigma. Your comments just about sum up every reason why I still like SRIII (and even SRII) and why even after lobbying by some players, I chose to keep my Rhapsody in Shadow campaign under the SRIII ruleset. It wasn't just the time frame (2062) but elements like the wireless matrix and commlinks just seems to destroy the "shadowy" feel that I like in the older editions.

Furthermore, spell drain is harder to stage down, and no spirits/elementals can sustain or cast health spells. I especially liked Grounding spells in SRII. Made those focus junkies (& everyone around them) feel a bit more vulnerable.

And Media? My favourite supplement of all is Shadowbeat and I successfully ran two characters (the aforementioned Leela and my reporter Lana Lane) who's concepts were heavily influenced by the sourcebook.

...and hell, I miss the old skill web. I thought it was cool to default from Cajun Cooking to make explosives even if the TN was sick (just got to keep rolling & re-rolling those 6s.).

I find the 4th edition rules a mixed bag, they fixed a few problems and created a lot more new ones. I don't really view 4th edition as a new edition, its a different game that happens to share a somewhat similar setting.

I like third edition rules and the fluff from second. It seems that Shadowrun has slowly gotten more and more bland over the years. I enjoy picking up some of the old SRII sourcebooks and reading things like Hatchetman's experiences as a Cyberzombie, and looking at great artwork by artists like Bradstreet. With the newer stuff I find I miss the good running commentaries by various runners that were spread out through the book. They still have it in 4th edition, but they haven't done it very well, and the artwork is almost universally awful. The tone of the game seems to have changed too, less gritty and more cartoonish.

...OK one I did miss: The one million Bio Sammy (a character built totally with Bioware)

This comes from a discussion on the SR4 forum on bioware and essence. In 3rd ed, it was possible to load up on the bio and still have a 6 essence. It was even possible to go beyond 6 all the way up to 9, which was the Essence Index limit. In 4th ed, characters are limited by Essence. It is argued that the 1/2 rule allows for further implantation, however this does not apply if the character has no cyber or the total essence value of the cyber is less than that of total bioware implants.

In a sense, Bioware has lost one of it’s advantages and has become (as I mentioned) a "wet" form of Cyberware.

Double post due to connection timeout

I liked 2nd Ed .... your bio index was capped by your body rating, and was not limited by how much cyberware you had in your body. 2nd was perfect for munchkin sammies.

I have a question, how many people let thier characters go to 1.5 racial max by paying double karma?

Not many, I'd assume, since the rule is

improve_attribute :: Attribute -> RML -> KCost
KCost = if Attribute < RML then 2*Attribute
KCost = if Attribute < ceiling (RML * 1.5) then 3*Attribute
KCost n = Infinity

Edit: 1.5*racial max? You mean, getting a human to, say, Strength 14 by paying 6*Attribute for the last five points? Or something else?

Personally, I think that would be indistinguishable from outlawing that advancement, since the cheapest advancement to that level without edges or flaws (Troll Charisma 7, Otaku with physical 1s physical stat 7) would cost 42 points by itself. Even an Otaku with physical 1s and three levels of… what was it, Infirm? Would have to pay 24 karma to get to 4 on a physical stat, which just makes no sense. A standard human would pay 60 karma to get one stat to 10, when they could pay the same amount to bring two different skills with a linked stat of 6 from 0 to 6.

~J