Okay, so I'm twiddling around with a kinda Face-ish build for a change, and naturally, there's no way around tailored pheromones.
So, if looking at the description in the book, am I right if I read that as saying you get +1 Cha/rating AND a +1/rating to your pool for social tests?
I searched the forum, and what I found seemed to confirm my interpretation, but I also find that's quite a big boost for what is essentially a dirt-cheap piece of 'ware, so I'd thought I'd ask you guys just to be sure.
Thanks in advance!
Full Version: Tailored Pheromones
Tailored pheremones do not increase your charisma, they only add their rating as a dice pool bonus to charisma and social tests.
For reference, the sentence on page 339 of your hymnal is "Tailored pheromones add their rating as a dice pool modifier to Charisma and Social Skill Tests."
I don't think it's a bonus to Charisma. My reasoning is this: if it was a bonus to Charisma, it would probably read "bonus to Charisma," and not "dice pool modifier." Since it's not a bonus to Charisma, then the bonus must go to "Charisma and Social Skill Tests," which is to say Charisma Tests and Social Skill Tests.
I don't think it's a bonus to Charisma. My reasoning is this: if it was a bonus to Charisma, it would probably read "bonus to Charisma," and not "dice pool modifier." Since it's not a bonus to Charisma, then the bonus must go to "Charisma and Social Skill Tests," which is to say Charisma Tests and Social Skill Tests.
That makes sense (more sense than getting the bonus twice!)
Thanks for clearing that up!
I think the confusion came from the CharGen I'm using, it apparently does the +1 Cha/rating. Seeing that before I checked up obviously influenced my interpretation.
Also, I am as thick as a brickwall right now...
Thanks for clearing that up!
I think the confusion came from the CharGen I'm using, it apparently does the +1 Cha/rating. Seeing that before I checked up obviously influenced my interpretation.
Also, I am as thick as a brickwall right now...
Didn't they add to Charisma in 3rd?
Which chargen are you using?
Blakkies SR4Chargen, latest version, as far as I know...
yeah, that chargen does that for several things that add to dicepool.
It's only really an issue if you are a mage and then only for your drain stat.
It's only really an issue if you are a mage and then only for your drain stat.
Or if you get Tailored Pheremones. 
I was trying to say that the character sheets practise of direct stat ads instead of dicepool mods for tailored pheromones and cerebral boosters for example, is only an issue (really) if you are a mage. 
Since the TP add to Charisma and Social Skill Tests then it would add to the characters Charisma Attribute. For example if they practiced Black Magic and rolled their drain that's a Charisma test since it utilizes Willpower and Charisma.
Some may dispute this, but it seems logical enough. Pheromones are a great asset in enhancing an indivuduals force of personality. The problem lies in that they phrased the description in a manner that specifically allows a character to 'double dip', adding to thier charisma, then also their social dice.
I have always kept them as they were, Rating = Bonus to Charisma Score. Since Social skill tests generally use charisma anyways, by increasing your Charisma you are by proxy, increasing your social pools as well.
But we all have our own opinions.
Some may dispute this, but it seems logical enough. Pheromones are a great asset in enhancing an indivuduals force of personality. The problem lies in that they phrased the description in a manner that specifically allows a character to 'double dip', adding to thier charisma, then also their social dice.
I have always kept them as they were, Rating = Bonus to Charisma Score. Since Social skill tests generally use charisma anyways, by increasing your Charisma you are by proxy, increasing your social pools as well.
But we all have our own opinions.
| QUOTE (Hartbaine) |
| I have always kept them as they were, Rating = Bonus to Charisma Score. Since Social skill tests generally use charisma anyways, by increasing your Charisma you are by proxy, increasing your social pools as well. But we all have our own opinions. |
except for anytime someone uses a social skill on you and it's not charisma to resist. which is fairly often.
and cthulhudreams, cerebral boosters *do* add to your logic.
perhaps you're thinking of something else though =P
Why would you use Pheromones to resist?? Pheromones are not a shield, they do not protect you unless you are emitting pheromones that attract Wired Samurai.
Since the book does not state the actual type of pheromones used (there are several types, but most human pheromones are sex dependant) it's safe to say they are used in an 'offensive' manner, not a 'defensive' one.
Since the book does not state the actual type of pheromones used (there are several types, but most human pheromones are sex dependant) it's safe to say they are used in an 'offensive' manner, not a 'defensive' one.
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
except for anytime someone uses a social skill on you and it's not charisma to resist. which is fairly often. and cthulhudreams, cerebral boosters *do* add to your logic. perhaps you're thinking of something else though =P |
*facepalms* I could have sworn it was a ddice pool..
Okay I'm an idiot
Tailored Pheremones don't add to Chrisma-based drain resistance tests nor do they allow you to bind more spirits.
| QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) |
| *facepalms* I could have sworn it was a dice pool.. Okay I'm an idiot |
I think the rule of thumb for each cyber\bioware mod is:
Does it make me <blank> better?
Bone lacing does not make you tougher. It makes you tougher when someone applies (for example) a baseball bat to your ribs.
Muscle replacement makes you stronger and more agile.
Tailored pheromone's do not make your pimply, scab-scarred, gangly, flabby, self look closer to Fabio. It may make Johnson wonder why he suddenly feels like taking a chocolate bath with a couple of joygirls right now, but it won't make you look any better.
Excuse me, I have other urgent matters to attend. *Goes off to beat up a dead horse*
Charisma is not just how attractive you are, it's about how forceful your personality is and how well you can ooze that into other's ballpark.
You can be ugly as all get out and still have a Charisma of 6+, sure you're butt ugly but you're excellent at making friends and are generally a likeable person.
You can be ugly as all get out and still have a Charisma of 6+, sure you're butt ugly but you're excellent at making friends and are generally a likeable person.
| QUOTE (Hartbaine) |
| You can be ugly as all get out and still have a Charisma of 6+, sure you're butt ugly but you're excellent at making friends and are generally a likeable person. |
Whoops, forgot to include that part.
What I meant was about the initial reaction to butt ugliness. No club bunny would send a smarmy text message to Alfred E. Neuman... unless they were into fuglies.
I dunno... ugly cooties? *shrug*
Tailored Pheromones don't do anything to your personality. They just make you smell good to other metahumans.
...so here's an interesting thought what if you had both Tailored Pheromones and Clean Metabolism?
...would they cancel each other out?
...would they cancel each other out?
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Tailored Pheromones don't do anything to your personality. They just make you smell good to other metahumans. |
Not really smell as in "I smell fried chicken..." more of a "Since I've been around that guy I feel like taking a chocolate bath with a couple of joygirls..."
But I get what you mean
| QUOTE (Hartbaine) |
| Why would you use Pheromones to resist?? Pheromones are not a shield, they do not protect you unless you are emitting pheromones that attract Wired Samurai. Since the book does not state the actual type of pheromones used (there are several types, but most human pheromones are sex dependant) it's safe to say they are used in an 'offensive' manner, not a 'defensive' one. |
Tailored pheromes add to Charisma and social skill tests, so they would help resist social skills, too. This is because social skills are interactive, even if one person is initiating an attempt to con, intimidate, or out-negotiate the other person. So while the Johnson is trying to do his "scary suit with lots of connections" bit, the guy with tailored pheromes is giving off alpha male scent, distracting the Johnson and throwing his efforts off balance.
The different between increasing an attribute as in muscle toner and adding a bonus to tests as in tailored ferremones becomes very significant in chargens if you are working out whether you hit the cap for boosted attributes 
As to the tailored ferremones on resisting social skills, yes I would agree. They make people more inclined to like you or otherwise more malleable, and resisting a persuasion or con attempt is very much a two way street. It isn't so much a case of attack and defence as it is a true example of an opposed action, a lot closer to a tug of war situation than shooting a gun at least.
As to the tailored ferremones on resisting social skills, yes I would agree. They make people more inclined to like you or otherwise more malleable, and resisting a persuasion or con attempt is very much a two way street. It isn't so much a case of attack and defence as it is a true example of an opposed action, a lot closer to a tug of war situation than shooting a gun at least.
I read shadowtech ages ago, but...
Tailored Pheromones bonuses works ONLY when interacting with opposite sex, yes?
Tailored Pheromones bonuses works ONLY when interacting with opposite sex, yes?
| QUOTE (mattness pl @ Sep 13 2007, 09:23 PM) |
| Tailored Pheromones bonuses works ONLY when interacting with opposite sex, yes? |
Nope. Anyone is fair game.
Besides, what about gay/lesbian/bi people?
| QUOTE (Hartbaine) |
| Since the TP add to Charisma and Social Skill Tests then it would add to the characters Charisma Attribute. For example if they practiced Black Magic and rolled their drain that's a Charisma test since it utilizes Willpower and Charisma. |
I would argue that since it says Charisma and Social Skill Tests that it would only add the dice pool bonus for tests that use both charisma and a social skill. If it said dice pool bonus to charisma or social skill tests then it would apply to all tests that included either but the and means that it would only add to tests that have both.
...I can't see Tailored Pheromones adding to any magic/summoning tests, period.
Arn't drain tests are referred too with specific language that clearly is designed to exclude tailored pheromones.
I don't think the mana-sphere or any spirits would care how you *smell*.
The last sentence in the description for Tailored Pheromes (pg. 339) says:
| QUOTE (SR4) |
This bonus has no effect on magical abilities and tests. |
...thanks.
Examples of why they would say charisma and social skill tests are the attribute only tests described on page 130.
Tailored Pheromones would add to your Composure (Wil + Cha) and Judge Intentions (Int + Cha) tests as well.
Tailored Pheromones would add to your Composure (Wil + Cha) and Judge Intentions (Int + Cha) tests as well.
| QUOTE (Tarantula) |
| Examples of why they would say charisma and social skill tests are the attribute only tests described on page 130. Tailored Pheromones would add to your Composure (Wil + Cha) and Judge Intentions (Int + Cha) tests as well. |
Because it's easier to stay calm in emergencies if you smell better.
I'm not disagreeing with how it works, just observing, that's all. Maybe you find your own pheromones subconsciously soothing.
...so, with tailored (enhanced) pheromones if you went into an ultra paranoid high security installation with Pheromone scanners you should be easier to detect.
Pg 254 KK. The threshold for detection by a pheremone scanner goes from 3 for average metahumans to 2 for those with tailored pheremones.
About tailored pheromones... they're legality F, and should be trivially detectable by a properly programmed chemsniffer from a distance of several meters. Given that you can't turn bioware off, isn't this just hanging a big 'arrest me!' sign around your neck?
They're still natural pheremones, there's just a lot of them. Depending on the sec gaurd's mood you might be detained on suspicion of having illegal bioware, but a chem sniffer alone isn't proof. You probably have a chance to talk yourself out of it, and the pheremone boosters will help.
| QUOTE (Tarantula) |
| Pg 254 KK. The threshold for detection by a pheremone scanner goes from 3 for average metahumans to 2 for those with tailored pheremones. |
...thanks for the ref.
I also see that female characters have a slight disadvantage depending on the time of month.
. If she has Tailored Pheromones she can be in real trouble.
I grew up with 3 sisters so I can't imagine what a woman with a gun would be like during that time. 
| QUOTE (WhiskeyMac) |
| I grew up with 3 sisters so I can't imagine what a woman with a gun would be like during that time. |
Must take that into account for my female NPCs...
...yeah, nobody (especially elves) better piss off the Short One during that time. She's known to load her Warhawks with EXEX
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