By the Power of Greyskull, I just realized that you can create a materializing ally in the shape of a weapon or a suit of armor. There's nothing in the rules that says an ally's materialized form has to be anything resembling a living creature. You could create a whole line of spirit-armor and spirit-weapons (or demon-armor and demon-weapons if you're nasty).

Weapons:
An ally-sword could be mentally called to materialize right in your hand. The ally sword wouldn't need to know Levitate/Magic Fingers because an ally can always travel 3D even when materialized. It'd even have the metaplanar shortcut trick. Give him the elemental aura power and you've got a flying, teleporting, intelligent, flaming sword!

Armor:
Even a force 1 ally spirit would make an impressive suit of armor that materializes around you on your command. Elemental aura would certainly be even more impressive. Make an ally-armor that's strong enough to carry you (what is that, force 3 or 4?) and you've got free flight 24/7 (spirits never get tired). If the spirit-armor covers your whole body, you've got 100% cover behind a being that has Immunity to Normal Weapons -- it's the next best thing to being possessed.

Buddy:
Want your ally to walk and have a social life too? Just give him (or her) an extra form for 2 karma.

Limitations:
Are there any limitations to this? I remember seeing something that said materialized spirits can't process electricity (i.e. it can look like a toaster, but can't plug into the wall and create toast), so electronic weapons and ruthenium armor would be out, but otherwise I don't see anything that prevents you from creating modern armament like a pistol or combat armor. Page 90-91 of Street Magic says that spirits appearing to be composed of a material (i.e. fire, plasteel) aren't really made up of that material, but some sort of generic arcane material. Nothing says the material can't be sharp, durable, or transparent. Armor that appears to be made from fire or some other exotic material would certainly be impressive (but you might want to keep it out of sight of the cops though). You wouldn't be limited to ally spirits either, you could just as easily create spirit weapons out of regular spirits too, they just don't last as long.

Ideas?

I'm pretty sure that a spirit in the shape of a sword will have the properties of a spirit, and not a sword. There's some fairly explicit text in Street Magic.

Do you have a page number because pages 90-91 is pretty clear. There's nothing that says it can't be sharp or durable and that's all a sword needs to be. In fact there's a specific example that says a spirit can be formed holding a sword that can cause damage. Do you have a page number that says that it can't just be a sword?

I'm totally getting a spirit couch.

Good point about a full body armor spirit blocking spellcasting. That would definitely be a detriment to the mage since he wouldn't be able to cast spells himself (except on himself). He can't get around it using Channeling metamagic, so I guess that makes it a lot weaker than a possession spirit. Still, a flaming teleporting flying technicolor spirit armor coat would look really pimp.

I don't think that wearing a spirit with active Energy Aura is a good idea at all.

I'm beggining to wonder how you're going to word the favors to the spirit.
Furthermore, how you're going to explain basic concepts to something that doesn't understand the meaning of "sharp" or "bulletproof".

Also, one of our Golden Rules of Magic: No teleporting.

Let's go even further for "Bulletproof mage" theme. We use a possession tradition

The mage AND the ally has a sorcery skill equal to the mage. They both know Armour and Reinforce spell.

Ally spirit is a Stealth suit / or Camouflage suit (just to get full body coverage)

Lets say we have a F4 spirit and a full suit of armour that gives (8/

We get immunity to normal weapons and Armour 12/12.

Then we cast Reinforce to further increase the armour and then Armour spell...

Now we have TWO spellcasters in one...

The only weapon ally spirits can become is the Ares Viper Slivergun (Dikoted naturally)
it's in the rules somewhere.

Obviously the answer to the next question that presents itself after this is YES.

As I mentioned in the other thread about this, you might need Realistic Form in order to achieve all the sword-like properties you're looking for, but it should be doable.

Ok I don't remember right off the top of my head if saw this in a book or was a question answered in faq or on forums here.

A spirits force limits it's size so force 1 ally would be fairly small. and larger force spirit would be too large to be carried or worn.

Also Wouldnt spirit turned into a sword act as a club, not changing its properties but its shape?

There's nothing official correlating a spirit's force and size, but I believe it was FrankTrollman who gave us the secret rule-of-thumb for determining a volume range based on force.
I'll try my search-fu...

edit: The thread is here. And it's silly.
However Frank's rule-of-thumb was 10-60 liters per force, which is actually a good way for the GM to allow this but prevent it from being TOO powerful.

edit again:

Thinking realistic form was to offset the spirit rule that they would never be confused for non spirit, under RAW all spirits can easily be identified as spiritual in nature. Realistic Form allows the spirit to be mistaken for a real object or person, with limited functionality. Using the SM description makes sword and suit of armor viable.

This isn't exactly new or even unique to SR4. Ally Spirits have always been able to assume such forms, and one of the novels even features an Ally Spirit taking the form of a motorcycle if memory serves.

For all intents and purposes, it's heavily implied and assumed that Ally Spirits with a Form adopt all the normal and expected characteristics of that Form in addition to their spiritual abilities. Ally Spirits in the Form of a Human, for instance, walk and talk just like a normal Human. An Ally Spirit in the Form of a Suzuki Mirage would be as ridable and maneuverable as a real Suzuki Mirage. An Ally Spirit in the Form of a Katana will slice and dice just like a normal Katana. Realistic Form simply makes the form look completely normal and mundane, as opposed to ethereally and spirty in nature.

Now if that Ally Spirit with the Suzuki Mirage Form wants to go beyond the bounds of a normal racing bike and carry its rider into the sky, it's limited by its ability to fly and its Strength score. If that Ally Spirit with a Katana Form wants to fly around and fight, it does so with its normal combat (and Swords Skill) abilities. etc.

This, again, is what the rules imply but have never actually said. It's up to the GM (Oh my God, reliance on a GM in a pen-and-paper roleplaying game?! THE HELL YOU SAY!) to limit and determine the exact effects of a given form. If they think one is going too far, they can smack the idea down with full justification and reason.

You just have to remember that any perceived notion of how unbalanced it may be is weighed against all the vulnerabilities and hindrances of having to rely on an Ally Spirit for them. They have this nasty habit of rebelling and turning against you if you mistreat them, can be disrupted, can be banished, have their own personalities, and cost a shitload of Karma. I'm not sure if it's possible in SR4, but in SR3 they could even effectively be stolen from you by someone who learned their True Name.

Talon's Ally in Crossroads and Ragnarok had the alternate form of a motorcycle that required Long Island Iced Teas instead of gasoline. Not to operate, just to keep it happy.


Chris

EDIT: Aragos, that was his name. Very detailed personality. Regardless of whether you liked the books(I did) he was a wonderful example of an ally spirit.

It wouldn't be an improvised weapon if it was in the form of a katana, it's not like you're swatting the guy with something that's in the shape of a genie. The Guardian spirit has the Natural Weaponry power which the spirit uses to form a sword, but in our case the spirit form is entirely the sword. I don't see why the spirit-weapon would need the special power since that form already has plenty of limitations (like a lack of arms/hands/etc).

The ally can't be an Ares Citymaster because spirits can't be that big. Nothing official that I can find, but Frank was saying that he proposed a formula that said a high force spirit could only be about as big as a troll/horse/motorcycle. But you're right, if it was a possession spirit instead, it could possess something bigger like a Citymaster.

If you want your spirit to be as strong as a horse and not just look like a horse, it would have to have around Str 8. If you want your spirit-armor to be able to carry you like flying armor, it'll need around Str 3. A flying spirit-weapon would use it's own stats to attack, but if it just went limp and let you use it like a regular sword, you would use your own Str and Agi.

Note: Realistic Form actually uses a toaster as its example. In so far as stating a toaster spirit could be plugged into the wall and used to make toast. Likewise, a sword spirit could be wielded like a sword, and used to slice people. Or a motorcycle spirit could be ridden like a motorcycle, and used to drive around.

THAT's where I saw it! Thanks, you're my hero spiderman.

As long as we don't have to do an upsidedown kiss.

[shudder]

Coming in late, here... but I *like* this. Clearly, allies were not overpowered enough already.

Couple of notes... yes, as long as you pay 2 karma each time, you can give a Materializing ally whatever physical forms you like.

Sword? Sure. I *think*, based on the toaster example, that it would do damage like a sword. Better yet, it's a sword that can fire ENERGY BLASTS.

Armor? Again, I'd think so, but that's getting cheesy. How about a Dune (movie)-style shield that covers the entire body? Now, make it 1-way opaque. That's so munchy, it deserves a place on the Loonies list. I can't say that it's illegal, but any GM should probably ban it unless it's an anything-goes kinda game.

Note on possession... allies can *not* possess. It's either Materialization or Inhabitation, and the latter means no body-hopping. So, you could have an ally Inhabit your favorite armored vest, and have the armor stack (as per the other open thread on the subject). But in that case, you're probably better off with a Materializing ally for flexibility.

Also note that even if you're wearing it or swinging it around, an ally gets its IPs, and can still cast/blast/whatever (although I could see a -2 on all rolls if you're fencing with your ally).

Anybody wanna try to build Adam of Eternia or Captain Johnathon Power as mages with allies?

BigD: Here's the reference, see #11 (quoted for text): http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18486

Good catch; I'd forgotten about that thread.

So, I see how you could possess yourself with an ally and use channeling as per the Mumra build posted earlier... but unless your goal is "I need to save myself RIGHT NOW", you're better off having double IPs by not possessing yourself. And again, Materializing spirits can do everything except add to your physical stats, while still getting full IPs and being able to jump off and go tele^H^H^H^H shortcut somewhere else for you if needed.

But blowing a couple of karma for your spirit to take the form of the costume from Greatest American Hero, complete with the powers? Priceless.

Here's another thought for you, get a normal spirit with possession, and get it to posses a bullet (preferably high caliber), no you have a bullet with an astral presence.

It might only be able to effect the plane it's on, but it can hurt spirits on that plane . . . .

That is why I was thinking of a one off, in high caliber - Imagine a sniper who could shoot a spirit, and spirits wouldn't be the only thing it would work for.

This wouldn't be something you would do regularly, or carry spirit laden bullets as standard, but if your team is setting up an ambush for a magically active foe, it could be quite useful.

For astral creatures it might use it's spirit force, but if you went got a hybrid form and added the force of the spirit to the damage of the bullet . . . . .

As the system is designed not to allow mass produced anti magic bullets (you could have them, but they would have to be made, enchanted and brought individually - Way too expensive for your average runner)

This would give a cheep alternative, but the spirit might not like it much . . . . .

Everything has it's bonuses and flaws.

alternately, you could just have the spirit attack astral forms in the first place. having the spirit posess a bullet does nothing for you. the bullet does not do any more damage than normal (though it will be a very damage-resistant bullet) and if we assume it can hit stuff on the astral, it will be no different than the spirit engaging the target in astral combat. which it could have done with or without the bullet.

Exactly Jaid. Cweord's idea is utterly worthless.

Big D's response is incorrect. Allies *CAN* have the power of Possession...

**IF** the summoning mage is of a magical tradition that has spirits that can use the power of Possession. Voodoo comes to mind.

Note the rules for allies in SM clearly state that an ally spirit can have ANY power that any spirit the mage can summon is able to have.

Allies are your 'al la carte' spirits. You get to mix and match their powers based on the powers of the spirits you can normally summon.

Sorry i meant wheres the stacking armor thread but then i found it in the possesion faq.

is there any chance that a spirit might object to being shot out of a gun?