Are all guards the same everywhere?
What happened to distribution curves?
Full Version: Security Guards
| QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Sep 18 2007, 04:29 PM) |
| What happened to distribution curves? |
They work at stuffer shack. There just isn't much money to be made knocking over stuff shacks.
| QUOTE (nezumi @ Sep 18 2007, 10:06 AM) |
| Historically speaking, the answer has generally been to rob the poor people around you. Whether you're in DC, Baltimore or Caracas, it's generally been the same. I remember while we were in Caracas and there was a big riot. Where did the poor people go? Town hall? The police station? No, they burnt down their grocery store. <<snipped>> Then we get to the Z zones. That is a war zone, plain and simple. People know the Kwik-E-Marts don't carry and don't accept cash, everything is done electronically, and they don't get refunds. After a few cashiers are offed, they'll learn there's no money to be had. There's food though, which means the job is still dangerous, and a clerk who lets his store get robbed loses his job, so he'll likely fight to the death. I imagine most stores are built up not by individuals, but by families or gangs, so they can support each other, provide constant attention and defense. Again, no security guards here! Except those who sleep here and work elsewhere. It's all just individuals or gangs with guns, 'insurance' provided by underworld figures. You knock off a store with a Yak symbol on it and the Yaks track you down and kill you, just to make a point. Or they kill someone similar to you. It's rule by the strongest, and everyone is a soldier. |
The problem I see is thus - there are walled off areas of town that don;t ahve cops going in it with a breakdown of law and order. Quick-e-mart just isn;t going to open a franchise in hellholeville. So where do these people get money from to buy in goods manufactured outside?
Or maybe they are? It would seem kinda weird. These people don't have legit jobs, because they don't have sins (do they?) How do they get money? I would have thought it would all be things like illegal narcotics manufacture, prostitution, and organised crime into surrounding areas?
the cops don't go in because there's no profit in going in. nobody cares about what goes on in the barrens, as long as it stays contained in the barrens. Stuffer Shack can make a profit, so they restock their stores in the barrens once a week using armored vehicles and guards armed with LMGs.
the economy is black, grey, and corp scrip. you don't need a SIN to use a certified or hacked credstick, or to use paper money backed by corporate stock.
also, i don't believe the barrens are actually walled off, at least not by a single wall. the communities surrounding the barrens might wall themselves off, creating a sort of patchwork blockade, but i don't think i've read anywhere that the barrens are fully walled off.
the economy is black, grey, and corp scrip. you don't need a SIN to use a certified or hacked credstick, or to use paper money backed by corporate stock.
also, i don't believe the barrens are actually walled off, at least not by a single wall. the communities surrounding the barrens might wall themselves off, creating a sort of patchwork blockade, but i don't think i've read anywhere that the barrens are fully walled off.
Like mfb said. Where ever there is profit to be made, someone will find a way to make it. Kwik-E-Mart is in a unique position in that it's had decades of experience dealing with running stores in crime-ridden areas, and so has the background to properly secure and run such stores, as well as a reputation for not having any cash on hand.
I imagine you'll also have things like mafia backed script, but whatever it is, the Kwik-E-Mart is unlikely to accept actual bills. They want something that can't be swiped.
I imagine you'll also have things like mafia backed script, but whatever it is, the Kwik-E-Mart is unlikely to accept actual bills. They want something that can't be swiped.
Also paying the local gang to make sure you're not robbed regularly is just like paying Lone Star too keep an eye open.
Just because the local power structure isn't run by the state or a corp, does not mean there is no power structure at all. Just that the local lawyers are more likely to break your legs instead of serving you a court order.
Just because the local power structure isn't run by the state or a corp, does not mean there is no power structure at all. Just that the local lawyers are more likely to break your legs instead of serving you a court order.
Black Hawk Down has a pretty good example of Rating Z sprawl.
You know, if you're gang (crime family, pack of ghouls, toxic cabal, right wing death squad) is running things in a particular neighborhood, that part of the Rating Z sprawl is probably the safest place on the continent for you to be. Sure, there's the danger of other factions moving on your ground, but your people have whatever defenses they can devise. Anywhere else in the city, you're pretty much just meat for freaks.
Edit: How embarrassing. Well, if anyone wanted to read my review of DOOM: The Movie, you should have followed the now corrected link.
You know, if you're gang (crime family, pack of ghouls, toxic cabal, right wing death squad) is running things in a particular neighborhood, that part of the Rating Z sprawl is probably the safest place on the continent for you to be. Sure, there's the danger of other factions moving on your ground, but your people have whatever defenses they can devise. Anywhere else in the city, you're pretty much just meat for freaks.
Edit: How embarrassing. Well, if anyone wanted to read my review of DOOM: The Movie, you should have followed the now corrected link.
Your link leads to a forum and not a movie-related page.
Gee, this thread sounds familiar. It's just like the "average soldier" thread! 
If you want to run cost/benefit on security, you'll pretty quickly run into the issue that it's cheap and effective to have lots of cheap sensors and few high-value assets on-site (in general), with HTR teams standing by. Since most of the time, any given facility is not being broken into, this lets you leverage your assets.
However, since sensors aren't foolproof, and don't stop the terminally stupid, a couple of cheap meat bodies here and there can help give directions to the lost, deter the riff-raff, and (if they're good or lucky enough) hit the big red (wired, off-network) button to call in the HTRs just in case the sensors have been spoofed. Basically, Corp Bouncers.
You also quickly get into the issue of whether the guards are wired. If turnover is rapid, guards plan to move on to something else, or the pay is so pathetic that they can't afford basic wire (in which case, how does the corp trust them not to get paid off by runners?), then I could see "naked" guards. Otherwise? It's the same deal as with the soldier/cop threads. Wired Reflexes 2 + Skillwires 3 + basic cybereyes with IR/Thermal is relatively cheap. Don't forget that cybereyes also come with a data recorder, so the corp can replay what happened when the guard got geeked (but make sure guards who see sensitive areas don't have them, or runners will make house calls as part of their legwork).
As with the other threads, you're going to have to make some stuff up, based on what kind of game you want to play, and how gritty you want the world to feel. It's not going to all make sense, and you'll have to paper over a few things whichever way you lean.
If you want to run cost/benefit on security, you'll pretty quickly run into the issue that it's cheap and effective to have lots of cheap sensors and few high-value assets on-site (in general), with HTR teams standing by. Since most of the time, any given facility is not being broken into, this lets you leverage your assets.
However, since sensors aren't foolproof, and don't stop the terminally stupid, a couple of cheap meat bodies here and there can help give directions to the lost, deter the riff-raff, and (if they're good or lucky enough) hit the big red (wired, off-network) button to call in the HTRs just in case the sensors have been spoofed. Basically, Corp Bouncers.
You also quickly get into the issue of whether the guards are wired. If turnover is rapid, guards plan to move on to something else, or the pay is so pathetic that they can't afford basic wire (in which case, how does the corp trust them not to get paid off by runners?), then I could see "naked" guards. Otherwise? It's the same deal as with the soldier/cop threads. Wired Reflexes 2 + Skillwires 3 + basic cybereyes with IR/Thermal is relatively cheap. Don't forget that cybereyes also come with a data recorder, so the corp can replay what happened when the guard got geeked (but make sure guards who see sensitive areas don't have them, or runners will make house calls as part of their legwork).
As with the other threads, you're going to have to make some stuff up, based on what kind of game you want to play, and how gritty you want the world to feel. It's not going to all make sense, and you'll have to paper over a few things whichever way you lean.
Just make them upload their cybereye footage as they clock off 
I could certainly imagine wired 1 being used for lower end guards, though perhaps not the bottom of the barrel types. Add in some cyber eyes or contacts, a Fechetti 600 and a armour vest (jacket if you're feeling flush). Good enough to guard a almost nil risk target from low grade crime. It is worth noting that probably 99% or more of guards never see a runner in their lives, they're probably more likely to be behind one in the queue at the local stuffer shack while they're off duty than face a run.
I could certainly imagine wired 1 being used for lower end guards, though perhaps not the bottom of the barrel types. Add in some cyber eyes or contacts, a Fechetti 600 and a armour vest (jacket if you're feeling flush). Good enough to guard a almost nil risk target from low grade crime. It is worth noting that probably 99% or more of guards never see a runner in their lives, they're probably more likely to be behind one in the queue at the local stuffer shack while they're off duty than face a run.
The thing that instantly jumps out in my head in this thread is the separation of society into rich and well educated suits and sinless. I don't have the latest edition, but unless things have changed corps have plenty of middlemen and part of the bennies of working for a corp is that they house you, educate your children, give you health care, etc. Your corp is your government. And that's not just for the CEO, the Janitor lives in Hamburgler Village. Sure, it's not as McEstates down the road, but it ain't sleeping under a bridge, and it's got some security. Most of SR deals with people who aren't under corporate license, but I would think this is where the bulk of your sec guards are going to come from. Or at least the ones who matter.
Disposable security will surely be around, and this is where your ex-gangers come in, but for real security, they are going to be people who were corp born but didn't pass the exams (Or wanted a more adventurous life) to get into the world of the suits. Some will be borderline, some might have corporate aspirations...as heads of security are pretty important people. CorpSec heads are basically highly respected generals, with armies to command. Top security people are going to be highly paid, highly respected (and/or feared). This would be doubly so in the environment of corporate espionage and sabotage that exists.
Disposable security will surely be around, and this is where your ex-gangers come in, but for real security, they are going to be people who were corp born but didn't pass the exams (Or wanted a more adventurous life) to get into the world of the suits. Some will be borderline, some might have corporate aspirations...as heads of security are pretty important people. CorpSec heads are basically highly respected generals, with armies to command. Top security people are going to be highly paid, highly respected (and/or feared). This would be doubly so in the environment of corporate espionage and sabotage that exists.
Good point. I could also imagine sec guards being people who failed entry into the military, or even Lone Star etc if you are talking about the disposable types.
See, this is where I'm probably...a heretic to a lot of people.
Except for researchers, essential staff, or senior executives, I don't see corps as needing or wanting to provide cradle-to-grave services like that, or things like housing, schooling, etc.
Why? Because the open market can do it so much better and cheaper, and even if the corp is extraterritorial, they (like embassies) are limited in their extraterritoriality as a matter of practicality.
They still draw power from the local grid (Renraku Arcology being the exception that proves the rule), still have the same trash pickup (at curbside) as everybody else, still use the same roads, water system, etc.
Why, in God's name, would they want to go to the expense of providing corporate schooling, corporate housing for all employees, corporate churches, etc?
Even if you charge far above market price, you can't make it into a profit center. (If your people PAY far above market just because it's corporate, they're braindead, and you have OTHER problems)
I may be foolish, but I see corporate extraterritoriality as just being "Well, corporations rated AA or better don't necessarily have to listen to government" (though, in practice, they will, 9 times out of 10, pay heed on zoning, planning, etc. stuff, because it's better for PR and all-around simpler in terms of avoiding a tragedy of the commons), not "ZOMG, corporations do everything including feed clothe house and otherwise provide for everybody from the CEO to the janitor".
No.
If that was remotely profitable, people would have done that already IRL and still be doing it.
They don't. Company Towns (a la Northeastern PA and other coal mining regions) were a fad, NOT something conducive to being listed on a stock exchange, and really not something that will ever be repeated. Why?
Because they made no sense.
I know a lot's different in SR, but corporations are still corporations. They're still in hock to quarterly earnings statements, etc.
(To those who protest that the megacorps aren't listed: Yes, they are. Damien Knight only owns...Last I checked, 22% of Ares shares or so? We know NeoNET is publicly-traded. So on and so forth.
It'd be impossible, actually, to -fund- a megacorp *without* being listed. You could *never* generate that much private capital.)
Except for researchers, essential staff, or senior executives, I don't see corps as needing or wanting to provide cradle-to-grave services like that, or things like housing, schooling, etc.
Why? Because the open market can do it so much better and cheaper, and even if the corp is extraterritorial, they (like embassies) are limited in their extraterritoriality as a matter of practicality.
They still draw power from the local grid (Renraku Arcology being the exception that proves the rule), still have the same trash pickup (at curbside) as everybody else, still use the same roads, water system, etc.
Why, in God's name, would they want to go to the expense of providing corporate schooling, corporate housing for all employees, corporate churches, etc?
Even if you charge far above market price, you can't make it into a profit center. (If your people PAY far above market just because it's corporate, they're braindead, and you have OTHER problems)
I may be foolish, but I see corporate extraterritoriality as just being "Well, corporations rated AA or better don't necessarily have to listen to government" (though, in practice, they will, 9 times out of 10, pay heed on zoning, planning, etc. stuff, because it's better for PR and all-around simpler in terms of avoiding a tragedy of the commons), not "ZOMG, corporations do everything including feed clothe house and otherwise provide for everybody from the CEO to the janitor".
No.
If that was remotely profitable, people would have done that already IRL and still be doing it.
They don't. Company Towns (a la Northeastern PA and other coal mining regions) were a fad, NOT something conducive to being listed on a stock exchange, and really not something that will ever be repeated. Why?
Because they made no sense.
I know a lot's different in SR, but corporations are still corporations. They're still in hock to quarterly earnings statements, etc.
(To those who protest that the megacorps aren't listed: Yes, they are. Damien Knight only owns...Last I checked, 22% of Ares shares or so? We know NeoNET is publicly-traded. So on and so forth.
It'd be impossible, actually, to -fund- a megacorp *without* being listed. You could *never* generate that much private capital.)
| QUOTE (Penta) |
| Even if you charge far above market price, you can't make it into a profit center. (If your people PAY far above market just because it's corporate, they're braindead, and you have OTHER problems) |
Just pay them in corp-script and they don't have the chance to buy their stuff elsewhere than in corp-run shops even though those charge a higher-than-average price.
Even Corp-Scrip doesn't change the equation. Corp Scrip is, IIRC, pegged to the Nuyen. And how, Grinder, would you restrict people to only corp-run shops? Remember, these are in Major Urban Areas, not in the backwoods like a NEPA coalmining town.
That's the only situation that fallacy works: When ALL corporate sites are in the middle of nowhere.
(It's scrip, not script, btw. Pet peeve.)
That's the only situation that fallacy works: When ALL corporate sites are in the middle of nowhere.
(It's scrip, not script, btw. Pet peeve.)
I always assumed that no other corp would accept other corp-scrip than it's own? You can't pay in an Ares-shop with Renraku-scrip.
| QUOTE (Penta) |
| Even Corp-Scrip doesn't change the equation. Corp Scrip is, IIRC, pegged to the Nuyen. And how, Grinder, would you restrict people to only corp-run shops? Remember, these are in Major Urban Areas, not in the backwoods like a NEPA coalmining town. That's the only situation that fallacy works: When ALL corporate sites are in the middle of nowhere. (It's scrip, not script, btw. Pet peeve.) |
As I understood it, Corp-Scrip does change the equation. It may have an equivalent value to Nuyen, but in order for you to exchange Corp-Scrip for Nuyen you would need an exchanger of some kind.
The Corp won't exchange Corp-Scrip for Nuyen because it would weaken their hold on the people they are paying in Corp-Scrip. Anyone outside the Corp that accepts Corp-Scrip for Nuyen or services now has to contend with the fact if they want to spend this Corp-Scrip they need a Corp ID, which the Corp is unlikely to just provide and will impose heavy penalties on anyone caught attempting to illegally manipulate this system.
I'm not saying it would never happen. But if word got spread around that getting caught on Corporate property with a forged ID attempting to use Corp-Scrip would earn you a trip to a Corp-run detention facility and placed on the volunteer experimentation list, then such Corp-Scrip to Nuyen exchanges would be rarer and at a significant penalty to the Corp-Scrip to account for the added risk of use.
I remember reading about something like this in one of the older SR books. I think it might have been Corporate Shadowfiles.
| QUOTE (blood_kite) |
| The Corp won't exchange Corp-Scrip for Nuyen because it would weaken their hold on the people they are paying in Corp-Scrip. Anyone outside the Corp that accepts Corp-Scrip for Nuyen or services now has to contend with the fact if they want to spend this Corp-Scrip they need a Corp ID, which the Corp is unlikely to just provide and will impose heavy penalties on anyone caught attempting to illegally manipulate this system. |
If you can't buy anything for it in the free market or exchange it, it's worthless. No one will want to work for it, except perhaps in huge(!) corp enclaves, where enough shops, etc. exist that take the money. And even there the people will want to go outside from time to time, so they have to exchange the money.
The corp will gladly exchange your corp-scrip for Nuyen. Banks could do it, too, but the corp would rather you do it with them so that they can keep the surcharge and get some of that money back. Probably makes it easier to keep an eye on employees, too. Why does Mr. Smith exchange 200Y every Friday night and leave the arcology for two hours? hmmmm.
Shadowrun is the product of our 80's culture, and part of that culture (along with punks in mohawks) was a fascination with japanese corporate culture of that era. Employees were part of the corporate 'family', and were expected to put family before themselves. The corporation gets a huge amount of control over the employee's lives, and they're expected to do as they're told and be happy for the opportunity. In exchange, the corporate family looks after them, and they are basically employed for life.
Of course, it's not true any more, and might not have been true even back then, but that was the perception.
Having corps own your home/school/etc is a natural extension of this.
Of course, it's not true any more, and might not have been true even back then, but that was the perception.
Having corps own your home/school/etc is a natural extension of this.
| QUOTE (Irian) |
| If you can't buy anything for it in the free market or exchange it, it's worthless. No one will want to work for it, except perhaps in huge(!) corp enclaves, where enough shops, etc. exist that take the money. And even there the people will want to go outside from time to time, so they have to exchange the money. |
You're right, Corp-Scrip is pretty much worthless in a free market society. That is exactly what a Corp interested in complete domination of its workbase would want in this case.
The Corporation gets to say:
If you want to work at our facility, you must follow the rules. Here are the rules:
1. You will work at our facility and be paid in money only good at our other facilities. The pay will be fair and the prices at our facilities will be fair as well as stable and plentiful. Our distribution system ensures that you will be unaffected by price fluctuations from local shortages that affect non-employees in the area. (If the Corp is offering the same products at their Corp stores that they offer at thier public stores, which is damn near everything a normal person would need, why would the Employee care that they are getting paid in money only good at those stores?)
2. You will live in the facilities we provide, which will be consumate with your position. Our facilities are all in gated communities with provided transportation to your job. We provide security of a grade higher than public housing of the same level because we wish to protect our investment in both personnel and property. Our communities include a wide variety of stores and entertainment venues so that all of your needs should be met without ever having to leave your community. (Corp enclaves don't have to be huge to have the shops, etc. to take Corp-Scrip. Just enough to provide what the Corp community would need on-demand, with the rest being able to be special ordered and brought in within a timely fashion. Corp communities also help ensure that most of the people you associate with are other Corp workers. Things work even better for the Corp if you marry Corp workers and make some new Corp citizens who will go to Corp school and learn everything with the Corp skew and grow up to be Corp workers.)
(I had more but I lost my train of thought. Those two should be a good start.)
Generally, a Corp the size of a AAA in SR is shown to make those Company Towns you mentioned. They just make them in Downtown Seattle and include so many entertainment distractions within elevator distance that most wage-slaves don't really notice the lack of freedom. I remember an excerpt from the Arcology Shutdown of a young teen's diary. It sounded like he rarely if ever left the arcology, the 5 levels of malls open to the public were about all the physical exposure he ever got to the rest of the world. While the Renraku Arcology is one of the largest and prominent example of Corp Towns, smaller arcologies do the same thing. Provide enough happiness inside the walls and the average wage-slave won't see the walls holding them in, they'll see the walls holding out the horrors and uncertainties of the rest of the world. And SR has proven that the rest of the world can be a very unpleasant place.
Or, Corp Scrip could have a discount at corp stores. ("It's Ares Fun Money. Just like regular Money, but Fun!") If employees are paid in corp scrip that's pegged to the nuyen, but they get a 10-20% discount at the company store then that's where the bulk of their money is going to be spent. There's no restriction on where the employee spends their cash, but they have a real incentive to keep it in-house.
When it comes to security guards above the doorknob-rattler level, it seems like the corps would want to take care of them. A security guard you can't trust doesn't make you very secure. I am reminded of the setup in Goodfellas where the airport guards would call the mobsters when a good shipment was coming in. As long as maintaining a competant security force was cheaper than replacing the lost and stolen items, otherwise, why bother?
Now, when it comes to stuff that can't be so easily replaced or absorbed by insurance (which is probably most of what the runners will deal with), the I think thats when you get to the well-trained, well-motivated security force.
When it comes to security guards above the doorknob-rattler level, it seems like the corps would want to take care of them. A security guard you can't trust doesn't make you very secure. I am reminded of the setup in Goodfellas where the airport guards would call the mobsters when a good shipment was coming in. As long as maintaining a competant security force was cheaper than replacing the lost and stolen items, otherwise, why bother?
Now, when it comes to stuff that can't be so easily replaced or absorbed by insurance (which is probably most of what the runners will deal with), the I think thats when you get to the well-trained, well-motivated security force.
Remember that open market capitalism is *NOT GOOD* for companies. Serious competition cuts into profits. In Shadowrun, the corporations got powerful and smart enough fast enough that they realized globalization like we see now is to be avoided. While the walls between nations were crumbling, allowing the market to spread, the corporations were building new ones building off that same market, and these ones have been effective. In Shadowrun, there is no Linux. In 2000 people had a choice between $400 for Windows or $450 for Apple. They could pay $100 for Word or $100 for WordPerfect, but OpenOffice would never threaten either. You could pay $20 for Internet Explorer or $20 for Opera, but Firefox was never released.
As a result, as computer technology increased, the corporations kept pushing the costs of these UP, not down, keeping the cost of a host out of the reach of most low-level businesses, while they sabotaged or prosecuted individuals who would threaten this stranglehold. There are no Indian startups in Shadowrun. In the UCAS, an entrepeneur cannot register a new business without wading through tremendous red tape and tons of fees. It's easier to join up with big biz and work under their umbrella. This allows a 'free market' between the big corporations, without allowing them to actually suffer severe market pressures. The corporations won, we managed to keep our jobs from being outsourced. Go us!
Remember, money cannot buy ideologies, loyalty or belief. Those have to be bred. As long as we have people raised in corporate enclaves, in corporate schools, they'll never realize how the corporations have twisted the system to keep themselves in power. Letting people live their own lives exposed to market pressure is a guarantee they'll wonder why they can't have more of a hand in them.
As a result, as computer technology increased, the corporations kept pushing the costs of these UP, not down, keeping the cost of a host out of the reach of most low-level businesses, while they sabotaged or prosecuted individuals who would threaten this stranglehold. There are no Indian startups in Shadowrun. In the UCAS, an entrepeneur cannot register a new business without wading through tremendous red tape and tons of fees. It's easier to join up with big biz and work under their umbrella. This allows a 'free market' between the big corporations, without allowing them to actually suffer severe market pressures. The corporations won, we managed to keep our jobs from being outsourced. Go us!
Remember, money cannot buy ideologies, loyalty or belief. Those have to be bred. As long as we have people raised in corporate enclaves, in corporate schools, they'll never realize how the corporations have twisted the system to keep themselves in power. Letting people live their own lives exposed to market pressure is a guarantee they'll wonder why they can't have more of a hand in them.
Well, corp wage-slaves are one of the backbones of SR. I tend to de-emphasize the whole 'corps as replacements for government' thing myself, but still, that is the SR thing. Without all the government regulation and control, they can make most anything profitable. Supposedly. Just take the privatization of vital services that is slowly working its way through the US now and push it to the extremes.
That who privatization thing, the balkanization of the world (And even local cities) leads to a lot less stable living environment. A lot more potential for 'bad things' to happen. When a major city has five or six separate police forces, with their own rules and regulation, with their own agendas, with minimal governmental pressure or control...it would be a security nightmare. And that is made even worse when you add in that it's common practice to play dirty pool.
And if dirty pool is accepted at the top level, I would imagine it trickles all the way down the ladder. Does that Chikin Lord across the street get more biz than your Chicken King? If they don't have more than a door rattler for security, you could get rid of your competition pretty easily. It's the whole culture, so I'm going to guess that security is going to be in ridiculously higher demand than what we've got these days.
That who privatization thing, the balkanization of the world (And even local cities) leads to a lot less stable living environment. A lot more potential for 'bad things' to happen. When a major city has five or six separate police forces, with their own rules and regulation, with their own agendas, with minimal governmental pressure or control...it would be a security nightmare. And that is made even worse when you add in that it's common practice to play dirty pool.
And if dirty pool is accepted at the top level, I would imagine it trickles all the way down the ladder. Does that Chikin Lord across the street get more biz than your Chicken King? If they don't have more than a door rattler for security, you could get rid of your competition pretty easily. It's the whole culture, so I'm going to guess that security is going to be in ridiculously higher demand than what we've got these days.
| QUOTE (Cthulhudreams) |
| where are these people coming from though?!?! We cannot find hardened security professionals to do the jobs TODAY. The US army cannot hit recruitment targets as is, and I understand law enforcement is strapped for people too. |
It's a matter of risk vs reward, IMO.
I see recruitment posters for LAPD or somesuch, and think, "That'd be a pretty solid career path, if I weren't already well-educated, and have a job where my health is not jeopardized by violence". I'm already in a good financial spot, so it's not a real draw.
Similarly, I know people that HAVE joined the military, specifically because the educational benefits are huge once (if) you get out. If I were looking at the prospect of flipping burgers, vs doing 4 years in the army and then getting a degree, I would be more inclined to join up. In the Sixth World, remember that it's much more dystopian than it is now. Think of all of 6W Seattle as being Just Like Compton, but worse. Resources are enough that people can get most of their most basic needs met (see Nutrisoy), but everyone pretty much is fighting a gritty battle for survival -- whether it's on the corporate ladder (where being fired may mean becoming part of the unwashed SINless masses, I expect), or in the slums. The general populace seems to be flailing to stay just barely above poverty level.
The amount of raw desperation out there to tap into is immense. An offer of stability for one's family is likely enough to make most people choose to be a wageslave. Heck, our characters would be too if they didn't have personal baggage. How many were corporate assets until drek hit the fan and they got burned? It's like Standard Character Template #7 or something.
I imagine that in a large corporation, one's personal lifestyle is likely less up to choice. Your kids are educated at company schools, and groomed for positions in the Company. Corporate strategists surely know how they plan to grow the company, and probably "encourage" certain percentages of children for scientific, security, and other jobs. It seems that the BIG companies pretty much would be self-sufficient in terms of supplying staffing needs. Certainly the fraternity of AAAs "recruits" from each other to a certain degree.
So, I expect corporate security has an ample pool of career professionals trained (mostly in-house) for that purpose. They know they're going to need to fend off attacks from 'runners hired by their competitors, and not planning for such losses/needs would be a career-ending move.
For non-corporate security, or for smaller companies, you'd have a different pool of people.:
- People that flunked out of the AAA academies likely ended up being either sent to lower-tier subsidiaries in the company, or being fired and then recruited by Joe's Local Security Firm (who has a smaller budget and can't be as choosy).
- Military veterans. Officers and high-ranking members likely are recruited by larger corps for security expertise, while peons end up going back home and realizing they can get a good job doing private security. (Heck, that's how many "runner" teams get started, too. I'd see such smaller security firms as being ethically similar to Shadowrunners.)
- Gangers and other street rats that want a better life. We don't hear much about other jobs out there that the general populace has. I'm sure manufacturing and other jobs are out there, or physical labor, but with the extensive robotization of stuff, i'm not sure what's available to John Q Street Kid if he wants to start a family. Crime, Stuffer Shack, Teamster(?), military/security.
I agree that the corps would go to this extent for loyalty, I mean it isn't that much in exchange for people who would be willing to consider laying their lives down just for the corps.
I can imagine worker's children perhaps being given aptitude tests and then put in certain categories at school from a given age, depending on where they thought they may be useful. Perhaps scientists, business etc, and so on. The future security guards would probably be put in for a lot of physical training. Just imagine the subjects though -
Corporate history
Corporate ethics or philosophy (or "why we're good for the world")
Especially for the kids intended for security I could imagine them being encouraged or forced to go to something similar to the army cadets they run here in Britain, sort of like a club for teenagers where they would get training and discipline. For those special few they might even offer something like a cross between that and the scouts, for potential special ops people. The bottom grade would likely end up as disposable sec, working the way up to the corp military or even the corp special ops teams. Failures would probably still be offered jobs, most likely as cleaning staff or other such work. Perhaps something similar would be there for other categories too, meaning that from even as young as 12 or thereabouts future corp businessmen would be competing to get the best results and thus the best jobs.
I can imagine worker's children perhaps being given aptitude tests and then put in certain categories at school from a given age, depending on where they thought they may be useful. Perhaps scientists, business etc, and so on. The future security guards would probably be put in for a lot of physical training. Just imagine the subjects though -
Corporate history
Corporate ethics or philosophy (or "why we're good for the world")
Especially for the kids intended for security I could imagine them being encouraged or forced to go to something similar to the army cadets they run here in Britain, sort of like a club for teenagers where they would get training and discipline. For those special few they might even offer something like a cross between that and the scouts, for potential special ops people. The bottom grade would likely end up as disposable sec, working the way up to the corp military or even the corp special ops teams. Failures would probably still be offered jobs, most likely as cleaning staff or other such work. Perhaps something similar would be there for other categories too, meaning that from even as young as 12 or thereabouts future corp businessmen would be competing to get the best results and thus the best jobs.
There's a little of that now, if you look at the hyper-competitive nature of the elite preschools in places like New York. If little Jimmy isn't eating the right kind of paste, he'll never be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
At the same time, a big part of the SR world for me is that its essentially like the world I live in now. There are fancy add-ons like magic, cyberware and dragons, but at its base its still a world where regualr people are leading normal lives-- going to work, raising their kids, watching bad tv shows. That's what grounds the setting for me.
In that respect, I find it helpful that the social machinery that keeps the in-game world humming along to be roughly the same as that of the real world. The staff at the 2070 Embraceable Zoo are likely still going to be disaffected high school kids, rather than genetically-modified super-cadets trained from birth to sell plush toys (although that might make for an interesting subgame, in a Paranoia-style world).
By-the-by, what's this topic about anyway? It seems like we've drifted far afield from the initial query about security guards. Or maybe just I have. (Embraceable Zoo super-soldiers, where the hell did that come from?) It would seem that any corporation will find a way to protect its assets in a way commensurate with their worth.
Also, if we're talking about corporations with extraterritoriality, it seems like we're not really talking about security guards, but police and military assets. That seems like an important distinction.
At the same time, a big part of the SR world for me is that its essentially like the world I live in now. There are fancy add-ons like magic, cyberware and dragons, but at its base its still a world where regualr people are leading normal lives-- going to work, raising their kids, watching bad tv shows. That's what grounds the setting for me.
In that respect, I find it helpful that the social machinery that keeps the in-game world humming along to be roughly the same as that of the real world. The staff at the 2070 Embraceable Zoo are likely still going to be disaffected high school kids, rather than genetically-modified super-cadets trained from birth to sell plush toys (although that might make for an interesting subgame, in a Paranoia-style world).
By-the-by, what's this topic about anyway? It seems like we've drifted far afield from the initial query about security guards. Or maybe just I have. (Embraceable Zoo super-soldiers, where the hell did that come from?) It would seem that any corporation will find a way to protect its assets in a way commensurate with their worth.
Also, if we're talking about corporations with extraterritoriality, it seems like we're not really talking about security guards, but police and military assets. That seems like an important distinction.
I would imagine corp sec forces acting as police too, but mostly for their own. For those not resident in the enclaves, and not all sec people will be at the enclaves either, they will just act like regular guards overall. Difference is if you get caught you might not get handed over to the cops.
| QUOTE (cx2) |
| I would imagine corp sec forces acting as police too, but mostly for their own. For those not resident in the enclaves, and not all sec people will be at the enclaves either, they will just act like regular guards overall. Difference is if you get caught you might not get handed over to the cops. |
With the rights a AAA has on it's own ground, that's likely.
| QUOTE (Mercer) |
| Also, if we're talking about corporations with extraterritoriality, it seems like we're not really talking about security guards, but police and military assets. That seems like an important distinction. |
Not really. The Israeli embassy has guards in Paris, not an army. They might have a company sized "guard" unit that just happens to belong to the military, but it isn't a combat force, it's still a security force.
OF course, the whole idea is so totally half-baked it's hard to tell what they were really meaning, as SR applies it in different ways in different books. And it doesn't generally follow the model they were claiming to be using, which is how embassies work.
And US embassies have Marines, which one would hope are tougher than your average mall security guard (at least the mall security guards who are not themselves former Marines).
Granted, I've been out of the scene a little while (the SR scene), but arcologies are more like small cities than embassies, and a lot of them have public zones that have a lot of "tourist" traffic such as shops, restaurants and so on. So in that way the corporations running the arcologies have all the problems of an embassy and a small city. Especially since the "public" services in the cities the arcologies are located tend to be privatized, so the police and fire departments are corporations (read: competitors) themselves.
I don't know if its ever been detailed, but it seems like a lot of juridictional complexity. Let's say a UCAS citizen is murdered on Ares property in a city that contracts to Lone Star for its police services. (The PR game alone that both sides would be playing would make for a pretty interesting game, nevermind the actual murder mystery itself.)
Granted, I've been out of the scene a little while (the SR scene), but arcologies are more like small cities than embassies, and a lot of them have public zones that have a lot of "tourist" traffic such as shops, restaurants and so on. So in that way the corporations running the arcologies have all the problems of an embassy and a small city. Especially since the "public" services in the cities the arcologies are located tend to be privatized, so the police and fire departments are corporations (read: competitors) themselves.
I don't know if its ever been detailed, but it seems like a lot of juridictional complexity. Let's say a UCAS citizen is murdered on Ares property in a city that contracts to Lone Star for its police services. (The PR game alone that both sides would be playing would make for a pretty interesting game, nevermind the actual murder mystery itself.)
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