A fully by the book legal tanking monster, with some pretty decent damage to boot. Please, let me know downsides/flaws/issues with him that you see.

As a side note, with his current armor and body ratings, hes tougher than a GMC step-van. Using the 4/1 trade in rule he gets an automatic 7 hits. If he actually rolled, that average up to 9. Thats a whole lot of damage that he can take, without flinching.

P.S. I'd love to spoiler him, but I can't with the code tag and without the code tag it messes up my spacing. Also, plans with him are to when possible remove the adrenaline pump and replace it with a pain editor.

Edit: 10/15/07 Some modifications to Brick. He's got an etiquette skill, perception skill, and some more utility (less punch), plans are to trade out the adrenaline pump for a pain editor when possible, also want a cybergun heavy pistol.

Edit: 10/16/07 Big changes. Dropped the genetic heritage and picked up biocompatability for cyber. Ditched the expensive and worthless adrenaline pump for some wired reflexes. Crammed some more goodies in the cyberlimbs (armor and all around strength enhancement, some sensors, smuggling compartments) and all and all turned him into a massively better tank, much better combatant, and better guy all around.

Hurray a cyber ronin build!

I think you left out the bonuses to his cyberlimbs from the custom job. He can go clear up to troll maximum on those physical stats without a loss of capacity or essence then another 3 past that which costs capacity. For example, his str should be around 13 without costing any BP.

Availability is +1 per attribute enhanced. Base availability on a full limb is 4. Thus +8 total is the max bonus able at chargen.

I thought that was fixed in the errata, I might be just thinking of cybereyes.

There is no errata for augmentation.

He's a good tank, but kind of limited. No extra IP unless he spends Edge (a risky proposition given your Flaw), and no ranged skills at all. The latter is especially limiting in a setting such as SR, where you can have flying drones, people shooting from third-story windows, guards behind cover, and so on. Sure, he will shrug off most small arms fire, and only a dedicated melee adept would have much chance against him physically, but how much fun would he be to play? The other combat-oriented characters will be getting multiple actions, while you will often have to wade through heavy fire to get an opportunity for a single action.

Those are the real biggies, there. I'm sure others will talk up his lack of social skills beyond intimidation, but he has a Charisma of 2, there is the concept of 0-rated skills, and he doesn't have any of the flaws such as Uncouth or incompetence/social skill. He will function in society better than the Bounty Hunter archetype does, anyways. He is vulnerable to magic, duh, but he also has a decent Willpower, and presumably his teammates will include someone with counterspelling. The lack of a Perception skill - that can hurt you, and even one point of it would make a big difference for him.

Is there such a thing as Used Alpha Bioware.... Dosent alpha bioware have to be custom grown for that character?

Used alpha bioware exists.

His point isn't to deal out ranged combat. He doesn't really need to care about even heavy arms fire (he can shrug off most sniper rifle rounds). Even a dedicated melee adept would have a very hard time hurting him (str 6, critical strike 6 is only 12P, fairly within his ability to negate to almost nothing).

His ability to take damage helps in the magic department too. He's nigh untouchable via physical spells, and via stunbolts/balls the adrenaline pump kicks in, and he doesn't pass out from stun while its active. His fun comes from rolling fistfulls of dice (28) all while combat is going on. Not being scared to punch the guy who pissed you off at the bar, or anywhere. Why? Because even a panther round would be hard pressed to put him down.

The Adrenalin pump is more of a liability than an asset. It is extremely unreliable and, worse, causes irresistible stun damage. Your troll is extremely vulnerable to stun.

Get rid of the pump, make your reaction enhancers normal grade, and go with a pain editor (used, normal grade) to ignore stun, a Trauma Dampner and Aluminum Bone Lacing (used, Alpha grade).

That gives you 5k to work with, as well.

The shield is also unreliable and you, unfortunately, can be caught without it.

You could also drop the Trauma Dampner, that'll free up another 40k and .2 essence.

Let's see....

No etiquette and charisma 2...

He'll be rolling 1D6 for charisma tests.

I hope to god he doesn't meet ANY kind conman. Or someone with Commanding Voice.

Hell, all that is needed is someone with good leadership skills that tells him to drop his weapon.

Composure tests will be a bitch as well and he lacks ANY kind of actual charisma (ie the kind that influences people when they look at him) he might as well be a cardboard cut out.

Someone with Leadership 3 and Charisma 3 could literally tell him to jump of a building and he would actually THINK about doing it (might not if an enemy tells him)

just give him the ability to shoot a bow and there you have your firepower and long reach damage capability *g*

My human mage casts force 9 Control Thoughts on you with:

Spellcasting 6 + Magic 6 + 2 (mentor spirit) + 2 (spec manipulation) + 2 (power focus) + reroll 12 failed = 30 dice.

Versus your Willpower 4 + Edge 4 = 8 dice.

PWNED. All yur tank are belong to us.

Fun experiment. Perhaps I'll throw him at the party if they piss off a Mr. J or something.

"This conversation is over. Mr. Brick, destroy them."

"Arghh!" Hehe, even Uzz will have difficulty shooting him down, even if he gets 6 attacks to his 1 each round.

But alas the fun will be over as soon as Simon mindbends him to his will, at which point he becomes very suicidal I think... although he will be hard pressed to kill himself with that body!

Geek the mage first.

4 IP does not necessarily equate to an Initiative in the 30's.

I noticed. And you still haven't ... why not?

Lets not derail this thread and instead bring it back into your thread, then.

of course there is ALLWAYS a way to get around such a tank . . even with char gen dudes . . but even dwarves with exceptional willpower are hardpressed to resist any major brain-rapery due to magic . . that is no problem of this char built, that is one of those instances where magic is wastly over-powered in my opinion . . and 4 IP is maximum and that mage built would not survive for long as someone in the world who is a paranoid mage hater/hunter will figure it out in the long run and just decide to kill the mage before he rapes his brain . . 'cause in my eyes, that mage built is seriously over the top power-gaming munchkin material one-trick-pony . . so he can rape everybodys brain with no big troubles . . the first time he tries that one on something that CAN resist him he is worm food as soon as someone looks at him the wrong way . . even IF he is possessed 90% of the time by some Force 10 spirit . . if he gets allowed to play, he gets to feel ALL the draw-backs . . like people telling him no when he asks for work, like the ghost using his body to do things he may not like . . have him be possessed by a Force 10 spirit, if he commands the spirit to destroy a wall, why should the spirit not use the body of the mage to do so? if it ain't a plant-spirit he will get hurt in the process no matter how high his body and armor and strength are . . and if he tells the ghost to STOP he's blown another one of his few preccious services . . and so on and so on . . there's allways ways to get even the most twinked out char there is . . but TROLLS are MEANT to be like this . . they are the tough power-houses, the Things and Hulks of the SR world . . so just because he can be out done by ANYTHING . . does not mean it is a bad design that is inherently flawed . . just like your normal run of the mill samurai with some agility and cyberware for his eyes and shooting can get his 20 15 dice to shoot things . . that isn't even maxed out or any seriuos min/maxing . . low int and low charisma and the such can be upped pretty easy in SR, because the lower numbers cost less karma . . charisma 3 costs 9 karma and charisma 4 costs 12 karma . . charisma of 7 costs 21 karma, so who can max out his charisma first, the troll or the elf if they ain't done it in char gen?
anyway . . i stand by my previous statement . . add ballistics/bows as weapon skill and the Troll deals GOOD damage at a GOOD distance . .

Except the he needs a) a troll bow, b) to drop his shield to use it as its two handed, and c) he actually doesn't deal that good of damage. Might as well give him an ares pred instead and pistols skill.

I'd dump Exceptional Attribute: Body and pick up Genetic Heritage instead. It costs essence, but by getting Optimization: Body as your freebie you bypass the 50 point gear limitation and you save yourself 10 bps that can be spent on Toughness or other goodies, as well as gaining a discount to any genetech you may want in the future (doubtful, but still a nice perk).

if arm strength is being maxed out, then he does with a good bow around 15P Damage and as a shield i would not use one held with both hands but rather one which has a belt inside to fixate it on the arm and a grip to hold it tight . . this way he'd have the shield ready and still could use both hands for the bow . . and at BASE Availability of 2, he should pretty much be able to legally obtain a good troll-size bow in about most sports-shops i think . . if one of those facts has not been changed due to some errata . . as i'm not really playing SR4 i don't keep up with those . .

Arm strength isn't maxxed out. Not even close. Look at the sheet before jumping to conclusions.

Shield isn't held with both hands, but it is held with a hand. I'm going by the book here, and thusly he loses the shield if he wants to shoot his bow. Not worth it.

ok, this is the first troll-built i've EVER seen that seems to totally neglect any notion of Strength . . strange O.o . . and because of this, he will only deal 8P damage . . yep, better use the predator then. . and of course he'd have to sacrifice SOME of his 28 dice to retaliate, i would not have it any other way . . and no, i really did not know that shields have to be carried in one hand . . seems slightly retarded to me . . as even the knights of old and before them the romans and greeks and all others around the world had made their shields so you did not lose use of the hand on the arm that carried the shield x.x . . of course you could not hold the shield tight in front of your body and at the same time use your bow . . but letting go of the shield without dropping it and gripping it again after having done your shot .. that should be doable i think . .

I wouldn't lose any dice by having the predator. Actually, I kinda planned to just upgrade to a cybergun heavy pistol later on. Either way, it doesn't really matter if he can't do lots of damage from a distance, thats what teammates are for.

The other thing to note: He has 50¥ to spare at chargen. Any gear he is getting will have to come after hes in play.

well, as whipstitch pointed out, there's still points to be saved in there *g*
those could be put into money . . 10 points equals 50k money doesn't it? O.o
20k each into arm strength and maybe other modifications and 10k for a good bow or something else . .

Money already has 50bp in it. Can't put anymore. Please, look at the build before you make a suggestion that can't be done.

*nods* ok, i did both overlook that and forget about that limit x.x . .

Currently, his cyberlimbs seem to be there mainly to buff his damage resistance, but the good thing is that they can be upgraded later, at which point his Strength can be boosted.

A question on his current ratings - I don't know if Augmentation changes this, but don't cyberlimbs start with a base of 3? So wouldn't his Agility actually be 6 for most tests (3 + 3)?

I agree with Hyzmarca that the adrenal pump is more of a liability than an assett. You should ditch it altogether. You can either replace it with something more useful, put the money into gear, or lower resources to get some more BP. But he's right about both the unreliability and the unresisted Stun damage, the latter being the worst part of that 'ware.

As far as his social or magical weaknesses, he really isn't worse than most other characters - they are only "weaknesses" because he is so much stronger in physical damage resistance.

On the subject of dedicated melee adepts, Strength: 6 and Critical Strike: 6 actually only does 9P base, not 12P. It's in the area of extra successes that the adept would actually have a chance. It would have to be an extremely min-maxed build to do so, though - doable at char-gen, but not something you would run into with most NPCs, unless they were things like Tir Paladins or bodyguards for corporate or criminal heavy hitters.

Actually, you use the average for most tests, which is 6 for all his limbs, but 1 for his torso and head. (6 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 1 + 1) / 6 = 4.33

Whats such a liability of the adrenal pump?

The rules say that if a particular limb is used for a test, to use the attribute for that limb. So if you were attacking with your cyberspur, your Agility would be 6. And with four cyberlimbs, you will probably be at an effective rating of 6 for many tasks. You are correct that the 4 would be what you would put on your character sheet, though.

The main drawback of the adrenal pump is in this sentence: "When the duration ends, the user crashes, immediately taking one box of unresisted stun damage for every turn the pump was activated." So that's 2d6 points of stun damage, every time you use it.

There's no way anyone, especially a troll, would be able to walk around in A+ neighborhoods or enter any building with a helmet, shield, and cyberspurs, let alone with a bow.

The problem with the commanding voice example is that it only affects the target's next action, so such a command would likely result in the troll standing confused and losing his action, but by the time the mystic adept gets his next action, the troll will have shaken it off.

The con man example is also a bit unfair. There are five archetypes in the main book with Charisma's of 2 and no con skill (and some more with Charisma of 3 and no con skill), so his character hardly has a unique, glaring weakness. The problem isn't with con men, it's with GMs who treat social skills like mind control instead of subtle manipulation.

Jopp, check the description of Con. "Con Tests are opposed by the target’s Intuition + Con (or Negotiation)." SR4, 120. Also, as Glyph pointed out, most likely you'd make him burn his next action not knowing how to stop resisting something he doesn't really know about.

Lacking leadership does make him default to 3 for resisting the commanding voice. He still gets that 3d6 for resiting it. And, AFAIK characters innately resist harmful spells, they can't choose not to (anymore than you can choose to not use your body to reduce the damage of an attack).

Buster: He has one cyberspur, which is retractable. A helmet isn't too terribly out of place. The shield stays in the car unless he expects major trouble.

Those bicycle helmets are all the rage these days and you might be able to disguise the shield as ... uh, an hors d'oeuvres tray, maybe? I've got it: pose as a bicycle delivery boy who delivers cocktails and you'll get in anywhere. Ok maybe I'll have a better idea in the morning.

Yeah, I'd ditch the exotic melee skill, honestly. Shields are a nice optional piece of equipment to stash in the van for emergencies and shows of force, but spending dozens of BPs just to be able to smack people with one occasionally just doesn't hit me as worth it.

The sheet's got holes, but that's practically a given when maxing out a troll tank's body. Personally, I'd pass on hardcapping body and would round the character out a little better, but I understand why he's going for it at chargen instead. Picking up Etiquette or the Influence group after a run or two is a pretty reasonable goal while bumping Body past 9 starts costing upwards of a hundred karma. If he doesn't do it at creation, it isn't likely to happen at all. Honestly, what's really bothering me is Bad Luck; he could probably get by the most important social tests via Edge and hanging with the Face, but that 1 in 6 chance can get pretty ugly.