@KK
No jammer at all, just a more powerful transmitter operating,,,seems the FAA and the USN frequencies were on the same bandwidth.

Interesting was the "contest" the USN and FAA had, each wanted to know the frequencies of each others radars but would not tell what theirs was.

The FAA sat a "van" on our pier, sampling our emissions, how that 2,000 watt energy output fire control radar beam got focussed on the feedhorn/antenna on the FAA van I do not know.

But the FAA and the USN worked something out, since I was work center supervisor for the offending radars/IFF, I knew more about our ships movements than most of the crew. I had to submit a detailed report to the FAA, they got back to me on what freqs I could use in FAA controlled areas. Nothing like getting awakened to get up and change the freqs, then report it to the OOD, at O dark thirty at night. One time I had just gotten relieved from watch, changed Freq's, then reported to the same OOD what I had changed freq's. Learned that the FAA tracks airframes by IFF not radar, FAA uses Radars only for almost immediate landings.

WMS

Now, I don't recall exactly where I'm getting this, but I think it was one of the 2nd edition books. Cyberware and such obviously makes for some difficulties on planes as far as weapons are concerned. I recall stun cuffs being used on runners to stop cyber specifically (especially spurs, I think that this was the Harlequin adventure), and the stewards and stewardesses were all cybered with skill wires being part of the package. That definetly slants the odds well the ledy with your coffee is going to be able to break your arm in three places with a slotted chip, some muscle toner, and cheap wires.

...I remember that too,. The only two members of our team on one mission who were still able to fight was my character (who was an adept) and her mage buddy. That was the flight where the Hijacking broke out I mentioned of in another post which the two of us, along with one of the crew members, helped put down.

Meanwhile, the chromed sammys from our team were gnashing their cyberteeth as they could do nothing since their ware was "locked" and they wouldn't have their guns until after we arrived.

A sammy who considers themself helpless or useless without guns and active cybergear is not a character I would enjoy playing. My troll sammie PC has enough stats and Unarmed Combat to at least *try* to make trouble for the terrorists. (12S Subdual Hold, represent!) Even if I were playing a low-phys-stats technomancer in a dead zone, I'll always be looking for *something* to add to the situation, as if I were playing a confident and creative person.

I recall a great instance of ''its a good thing to have contacts and social skills to find things'' in a campaign i was running last time i was visiting the States.

Well, it was more of an adventure. A really fast-paced one-weekender(fri, sat, and sunday can wrap it up if you put some time in) a la 24 only the PCs had 2 weeks to figure everything out. Some of the stuff was a lil' WAY out there, but hell, it was fun anyway.

At one point, the PCs have to travel from Denver to Europe, with a desintation country that is actually random(i wrote a chart up.) They had to travel first to London to meet with a fixer there who could give them more info.

Now, the PCs had several ways they could do this.

Utilize the pilot NPC. There's a bomber-jacket and bandana wearing pilot NPC(Aku), who was in the US on a smuggling trip(Finnish guy, actually). He was introduced by one of the PCs fixers(at least ONE had one.) Now, since he was going back anyway, and he knew the London fixer, for a small price he'd be happy to fly the PCs over in his private plane, and he knew how to sneak borders. (No super NPCs, a 400 pointer like the rest of em, but with proper knowledge skills). However, one problem. He was taken over; he didn't have a plane in the US that could make an overseas trip; strictly small craft. So, the PCs could, thru use of Etiquette, their fixers and some Negotiation, find someone to purchase/rent/steal an overseas-worthy craft from; which Aku would have flown, for his price.

However, failing all of their rolls to the point where they COULD have hypothetically found a plane...for very expensive....and if they wanted to get the price down via extended tests, it would have taken too long. Had they have rolled better on their price-talking tests, or HAD more of said skills(i even let Aku toss in some complementary rolls), they might have gotten this. But, there was always option B!

-Travel commercial. They found a cheap flight from Denver to London, which left that night....erm, however, there was an issue with the weapons. Now, the PCs with normal pistols that had them licensed could check them through the baggage claim, but they couldn't take them on board. No problems, really...but they basically had to go overseas with nothing but a couple of pistols and boxes of legal ammo...and they didn't know what they were facing, and THAT ended up being the fun part. No assault rifles, no large bladed weapons, no illegal foci, just the small, legal, licensed stuff.

It ended up being alot of fun, on a ''timer'' so to speak, so the PCs didn't want to chance trying to dig up a bunch of bigger bang-bang over in Europe. Sometimes it makes things exciting.

I suppose after hte long-winded post here, im saying that the moral of the story; have good negotiating and ettiquette skills and hope you know some people who can get you overseas without having to fly Buisness Class. Well, at least the synthahol is free.

Fist: Thanks for trying to re-rail my topic This is just the kind of stuff I was asking for. Locking cyberware seems obvious now. Hmm, I'm thinking of making such a run for my players, they've become accustomed to solving problems with APDS and assault rifles

Hmm...im not sure how viable it is to wire/cyber EVERY MEMBER of the plane crew...on average. Harlequin i sort of take as a 'special' adventure(or series of adventures), but that's just me.

I'd say a top of the line plane company may have a larger percentage of stewards/stewardesses with some wires; but the average one, I'd say they would just more or less have the 'ware blocker/restraints and a couple armed/trained guards on the planes. It would certainly be cheaper than wiring(with skillwires, muscle toner, and whatever else) EVERY MEMBER of your steward pool. Hell, police don't even have that. If they did hit up all the crew, it would probably be levels so low of the toner and skillwires that even a sammie with his ware in check has skills/stats high enough to take out three of them.

I guess it's different in everyone's games, but i usually run with a plainclothes officer or two and a pilot/copilot who have some skills. Of course, with the scanners, bag checks, and typical security measures(like those spur jammers.)

Addentum: Fist, i do like your points, but again i felt Harlequin as sort of over-the top. Its a good idea, but i was thinking of the practicality of it. The average airline steward's stats are probably around average; if you're some prodigy, unless you REALLY like the idea of stewarding, you probably will be doing something else. That, and the average sam, as said, is still pretty dangerous even without wires(unless the player gimped the physical stats and bought them all up). If Nigel Smith, airline steward, would stand a chance of breaking said sammy's arm in 3 places, he'd need at the very least around skillwires 4, a little bit of reaction enhancers and a couple of levels of muscle toner, which can run into the 5 digit range, easily. Multiply that by alot of stewards...and that's serious nuyen.

Of course, the stewards could stay unwired and go through some basic self defense courses and perhaps have a taser on hand(pistols 2, unarmed 2), which will make them not total targets, and its a HELL of a lot cheaper to arm a bunch of stewards with a taser and toss them into a couple months of practice. And tasers/shock weapons ARE pretty nasty. And of course, giving the stewards a slimline armored vest or some kevlar clothing is viable as well, too..and arming the pilots with a pistol isn't that expensive, either.

Just trying to toss out some ideas that are a little more on the realistic side. After all, companies try to cut costs however they can.

Skillwires and chips are so cheap for the airline, especially if the stewards have to pay a part of the package out of their own pocket, that it wouldn't make much sense not to equip the crews with it.

Well, I can see if it was JUST the skillsofts and skillwires...but they'd probably want more.

Again, im thinking that even if the cybered people had their ware ''turned off'', they'd still be a far sight dangeous than the average steward.

At the cheapest, let's say the aformentioned Nigel has Armored Clothing(500), Skillwired 5(10,000), and an Unarmed Combat skillsoft at rating 5(2500), for 13,000. Not too terribly bad for a rich airline, and let's say Nigel pays half(6500). But still, that's a good investment when you multiply that by, say, at least 100 stewards, if not much more.

However, with this bare-bones setup, Nigel's going to have some trouble subduing Thor, the mad elf samurai, with Agility 8(hey, can't turn off muscle toner), Str 7(can't turn off augmentation either), and an unarmed combat of 6. Nigel, with his(ill be generous) 3 agility and 5 Unarmed(not edge-usable), will probably have serious trouble, Hell, even his neighbor, Raging Randall, with a 5 agility, 5 str, and 4 unarmed can give poor Nigel a run. Now, the stewards have numbers on their side, but it might be ugly.

However, a more ideal setup would see the aformentioned bit(13,000), but replace Unarmed with Clubs and give a Stun Baton. This would give ol' Nigel a MUCH better chance. Add an Unarmed soft of 2 and a Tasersoft of 3(1000 total) and things are looking up. Toss a Taser on him(150), Loaded(200), give a Stun Baton(400), for 14,750 nuyen.

If you REALLY want to even the ground, you'll toss a level or two of Muscle Toner onto Nigel(now going broke to work at his job), for 8000-16000, to give him a couple extra dice to throw. Chances are, he'll get a better result, and be able to taser the guys down quickly, if he goes first, so tack on two reaction enhancers(Nigel's getting sick of surgery), for 20,000 nuyen. Ouch.

Now, i see what you're saying...it's cheap if you outfit them more barebones(skillsofts 4 well say). And i might be overestimating their competition. And of course, there is power in numbers...four stewards with Agility 3, str 2 and a skillsoft of 4 can eventually overpower them, until the real help can get there, i suppose. Especially if a stun baton was used, which is likely to put down some runner a LOT faster than their puny punch.

But on a one-on-one level, i'd say a steward would probably have to be outfit more like the second example, for a good 35,000+ each. THIS is where i felt it was a bit unrealistic, even if the steward paid half of it.

But skillwires 4 with a clubs 4 chip, a stun baton and set of clothing? Ill buy that as viable.

The whole idea of turning off cyberware during flight was inane. It was just another part of the extreme railroading and magic-bias of that adventure set.

-Frank

...one security weapon being overlooked in the whole scheme is the Ares Super Squirt. Fairly concealable, no threat of puncturing the cabin, and rather effective, (unless someone is wearing security armour which I really don't think the airline would allow).

With wearable smartlinks (contacts) the security officer(s) and crew would have a decent chance at putting down most non-augmented threats. When you start talking about wires of any kind (save for maybe the flight deck crew having control rigs) that is a major issue for the average individual and the company, costs aside. Keep in mind, even the inflight service crew fall pretty much in the "Wage Slave" category. Yeah they may have some First Aid, emergency procedures knowledge & skill in conflict resolution (mostly from the social skill standpoint) invasive ware as a requirement of the job? Maybe the plainclothes security officer(s) but I really don't see it for the service crew.

Most runners (at least I know mine do) pretty much want to just get to their destinations without attracting undue attention or creating a scene so they can get on with the job they're being paid for. In the several times they did fly commercial, only one incident ever broke out (the aforementioned hijacking) which was perpetrated by unaugmented mundanes who as Simon put it were the types "promised the 47 virgins."

As an old American Airlines slogan once said "We want your flight to be about as exciting as getting a haircut"

Forgot about the ol' Super Squirt, a nice dose of sleepy stuff and most potential threats will be in dreamland the rest of the flight.

And im the same way. if im playing in a game and we have to fly somewhere, i'm perfectly happy having a haircut-level exciting flight. I mean, sure, i like to have fun in a game, but unless it's part of the story, my characters tend to just take advantage of the free overseas alcohol and wake up on the ground.

smart firing platform, ceiling mounted, with a super squirt (or maybe even a pain inducer).

problem of arming/training the stewards solved?

...Better yet Ared Cascade. the issue with the pain inducer is if the target ducks behind something (or someone) it no longer has an effect on him.

However still the simplest and mist surefire in my book: Nuerostun the passenger cabin and sort things out after landing.

You could also have multiple neurostun dispensers mounted at intervals, and activate the dispenser closest to the problem, rather than dosing the whole passenger compartment.

"Would you like a seat in the Neurostun section or the No-Neurostun section?"

However, a high-end SR4 hijacking kit includes the difficult-to-screen for item of a Rating 6 Neurostim Antidote Patch, and the hijack team might include dwarves or trolls with high BOD, or even an antitoxin implant. Those, plus respirators, will reduce the effect to a box or two of stun. Not enough to stop a fanatic. (if any of the team aren't fanatics, it's time for a personafix chip.)

I don't see any countermeasure listed for the Pain Inducer, but if the target has armor, it should require a called shot to exposed skin - or is the beam as wide as a searchlight beam?

Hm. Full body armor, as I imagine it and as it's illustrated, involves rigid pieces. Chemsuit goes over armor and presumably gets breached by a DV 1 blade. Could there be something that fits like a swimsuit, lined with Kevlar, for chemical seal plus armor? And can you change into that in a tiny airplane restroom?

Before that point: give all the seats trodenets rather than headphones, provide free high-end VR entertainment, watch most of your passengers go inert for the flight, and keep a darn close eye on anyone who jacks out. (For those who want or need to do office-type work during the flight, equivalent to laptop users today, provide a Virtual Office channel.)

Traveller RPG included an Anti-Hijack software. I imagine that a plane with appropriate optical sensors in the passengers area and a Big Brother program could flag any suspicious activity, eg assembling/disassembling things, passengers converging into a group at a forward bulkhead, etc.

Bugger that.

Due to the availibity of highly effective neurotoxins, magic, and other highly conceable weapon systems, as well as 'trix attacks, to prevent plans being hijacked a variety of changes are going to be made.

A) It is not going to be possible to move from the passenger cabin to the pilots cockpit. The only reason this would be nessecary if if *both* pilots (3 on international flights!) AND the autopilot got taken out.

So basically its the same as not. So the cockpit will be heremetically sealed (probably just in a different pressure hull) from the passenger cabin. You can see by the trend towards armoured doors that are never openned in flight ever that its going to head down this road. In a dystopic future where everyone has guns, it will head this way.

This simple change prevents any possible physical hijacking attempt that won;t destory the plane. Rember, they don't even need to make the two areas share a wall to cut through in some sort of cimatographic scene. So they won't, because people can.

B) HAXORS are a difficulty - but as planes are REALLY expensive today there is no reason that each plane won't have dozens of commlinks each running rating 6 agents with a huge assortment of attack programs. The list price of an Airbus is 300 million in todays dollars. A zillion commlinks will not meaningfully increase this price.

C) Pilots and the control systems will be sitting in the warded sealed cockpit to prevent spirits possessing the pilot.

This prevents most attacks. To prevent a massacre in the passanger cabin, they will simply flood it with neurostun, and if anyone is still concious and moving use drones armed with stick n shock or similar to hose them down.

These countermeasures fill the most important criteria of

A) Effectiveness - it is effectively impossible for mundane actors to attack the pilots via matrix or physical methods. Magical actors could in theory via the 'wreck' power which is a problem unless the target number can be raised very high indeed.

B) Cost effectiveness - That level of security can be picked up for a song. 5 robo drones armed with a light machine gun and gel rounds are less than 0.0001% of the purchase price of a boeing. The commlinks are likely to be more expensive, but not so much as to be an issue, especially as there is no unit cost on the programs. Hell, throw in another 20 drones. Really drill that guy!

So thats the likely enviroment. No-one is going to fit a steward with skillwires and combat skillz when the drone is effectively free. Agents protecting the plane can protect it

Other Countermeasures:

In the highly risky enviroment of 2070, it's likely that military grade air defense systems are mounted on most large buildings as large buildings == corps == neo feaudalist entities with large amounts of money.

...a lot more detailed than my solutions but very sound.

Considering that most overseas flights would be on HSCTs/SOs a single flight deck crew would suffice as most trips would be under the 6 hr maximum. But then who's to say that those regs don't get changed in the future either especially as the autopilot & navigational systems become more sophisticated and reliable.

Wards are cheap when you're a corp. The only place where they might not work is on an SB as it's flight profile does take it out of the manasphere (NAGtRL).

Anti Hacking is cheap as well, & if the airline has it's own undercover security it would make sense for one of them to be a matrix specialist or even a TM.

My only question is with the drones & how they would be deployed. Fixed tracks would make the most sense as you don't want an object free flying about in the cabin. I would replace the gel rounds (particularly after the FAQ changes) with drug darts and or squirt/cascade weapons. I don't see any airline permitting a passenger to board who is wearing sealed armour or hazmat suits so either of these would be effective even if someone is wearing a Suretech jacket.