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Stormdrake
Mystic Armor says the critter gets it against all astral attacks. Does this include spells?
Kyoto Kid
...I believe not. I think it only applies to Astral Melee.
Stormdrake
So is Magical Gaurd the only power to give critters added protection against spells?
Mr. Unpronounceable
Unless they're sentient and magically active and have counterspelling. (such as dragons, some nagas, etc.)
Ryu
There are the immunities not being sentient comes with. Depends on the spells you have in mind.
Prime Mover
The term "Mystic Armor" is used in two places, both an adept ability and one sentence in a spell. Although not terribly clear in the text, its been made clear since that its not a spell "barrier".

A question thats come up many times in play, is can we make a spell that does create a spell barrier armor. Could with existing rules a magical guard spell be made?
Fortune
QUOTE (Prime Mover)
A question thats come up many times in play, is can we make a spell that does create a spell barrier armor. Could with existing rules a magical guard spell be made?

Well, you already have Mana Barrier, which is pretty much a spell barrier. There's no reason you couldn't adapt it to be Caster-Only, for your very own Personal Spell Armor.
Prime Mover
My question to players is does'nt this work both ways. Would'nt it hamper spells cast by the protected party? And certainly effect spells cast on the protected party.
Fortune
QUOTE (Prime Mover)
Would'nt it hamper spells cast by the protected party?

Yes.
HappyDaze
However, you could cast in on your non-spell-slinging friend (if Touch and not caster-only) and let him go to town. If you're one of those Possession-trad guys, you can also whip it up when you want to just rely on physical ass-kicking.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Dec 8 2007, 01:44 AM)
Would'nt it hamper spells cast by the protected party?

Yes.

Definitely, it would have to; that's the only thing that would balance it against Counterspelling.
Prime Mover
What about phys ad powers....killing hands?
Tarantula
But fortune, you can throw up a mana barrier around yourself for some quick extra spell protection, and cast through that just fine.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Tarantula)
But fortune, you can throw up a mana barrier around yourself for some quick extra spell protection, and cast through that just fine.

You can? Really? The spell description doesn't say anything about that, although it does reference another section......following......hmmm, and that section does say that mana barriers (that's mana barriers, the general heading including Wards, the spell Mana Barrier, etc) do not affect their creators.
You seem to be right about that. Good call.
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula)
But fortune, you can throw up a mana barrier around yourself for some quick extra spell protection, and cast through that just fine.

QUOTE (SR4 pg 204)
Mana Barrier (Environmental, Area)
Type: M • Range: LOS (A) • Duration: S • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 1
Mana Barrier creates an invisible barrier of magical energy with a Force equal to the net hits scored. This barrier does not restrict living beings or physical objects, but it does impede spirits, foci, dual beings, and spells. If cast on the astral plane, it also impedes astral forms and restricts visibility. Any target of a spell that is on the other side of the Mana Barrier receives a bonus to its spell resistance dice pool equal to the barrier’s Force. See p. 185 for more information on mana barriers.
Fortune
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
hmmm, and that section does say that mana barriers (that's mana barriers, the general heading including Wards, the spell Mana Barrier, etc) do not affect their creators.

Wards don't affect their creators.
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Dec 8 2007, 03:45 AM)
hmmm, and that section does say that mana barriers (that's mana barriers, the general heading including Wards, the spell Mana Barrier, etc) do not affect their creators.

Wards don't affect their creators.

indifferent.gif
I don't understand this conversation.
Fortune
QUOTE (SR4 pg 185)
Should a magician try to cast a spell through a barrier, the target of the spell adds the Force of the barrier to its resistance dice pool.


QUOTE (SR4 pg 185)
Mana barriers do not affect their creators, who can see through them or pass through them at will and allow others to do so as well.


Note that it says nothing about a Mana Barrier's creator being able to cast spells through the barrier at will with no penalty. The text clearly delineates how the Barrier does and does not effect its creator.
Moon-Hawk
If that's really what it's trying to say, then the phrase "Mana barriers do not affect their creators," is poorly chosen.
Personally, I think the whole thing works better the way you're arguing, and I'd like to think that's what the book means, I'm just not convinced that's what the book says.
pbangarth
Since a spell cast by a mage is a separate magical entity from its caster, there is no contradiction between "does not affect their creators" and "any target of a spell... receives a bonus...". The caster herself is not affected. Any spell cast through the barrier is.
darthmord
QUOTE (pbangarth)
Since a spell cast by a mage is a separate magical entity from its caster, there is no contradiction between "does not affect their creators" and "any target of a spell... receives a bonus...". The caster herself is not affected. Any spell cast through the barrier is.

But the spell is from you / of you. You can use the traces of the spell to figure out who cast it. Therefore, it has to have your aura in there.

Since Mana Barriers don't affect their creators, why would they affect spells their creator casts since the creator's aura signature is on the spell?
Stormdrake
Following the original thought. Mystic armor does not provide protection against spells. Ok, so that leaves Magical Gaurd as the only critter power to provide extra protection against mad spell slinging players. So then can one individual have more than one source of magical gaurd working on him? Say a insect queen has three soldier spirits in attendence when runners come calling can all three soldiers protect the queen with this power? Will it stack?
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Stormdrake)
So then can one individual have more than one source of magical gaurd working on him? Say a insect queen has three soldier spirits in attendence when runners come calling can all three soldiers protect the queen with this power? Will it stack?

Teamwork test, just like counterspelling.
mfb
QUOTE (Prime Mover)
What about phys ad powers....killing hands?

mystic armor would help against killing hands, as it's a physical attack. it would also, i believe, help against elemental mani--er, indirect combat spells, like fireball.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Fortune @ Dec 7 2007, 01:27 PM)
QUOTE (SR4 pg 185)
Should a magician try to cast a spell through a barrier, the target of the spell adds the Force of the barrier to its resistance dice pool.


QUOTE (SR4 pg 185)
Mana barriers do not affect their creators, who can see through them or pass through them at will and allow others to do so as well.


Note that it says nothing about a Mana Barrier's creator being able to cast spells through the barrier at will with no penalty. The text clearly delineates how the Barrier does and does not effect its creator.

Oh, but it does. The magician simply allows the spell they are casting to pass through the mana barrier (as the text says they can) and thus remain unaffected.

Also, please point out where a ward doesn't affect its creator? Because you're contradicting the book by stating mana barriers do but wards don't.
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Also, please point out where a ward doesn't affect its creator? Because you're contradicting the book by stating mana barriers do but wards don't.

I was wrong in my previous blanket statement about Wards, which is why I went back and checked, and posted the quotes. smile.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula)
The magician simply allows the spell they are casting to pass through the mana barrier (as the text says they can) and thus remain unaffected.

A spell is not a separate living entity in SR4.
Tarantula
It just says that the magician can see through and pass through a mana barrier, and can permit others (no specification) to do so also. Thusly, a spell is an entity which might need to pass through the barrier, why shouldn't the magician be able to permit it?
Fortune
Because a spell is not considered an entity in SR4.

If a caster's spells were unaffected by a mana barrier, then specific mention would have been made to reflect that exception in the section where it states 'Should a magician try to cast a spell through a barrier, the target of the spell adds the Force of the barrier to its resistance dice pool'.
Tarantula
If a spell isn't an entity, then isn't the caster not being affected by the barrier the best way to say that the caster's spells aren't either? Since the spells aren't separate, then if the caster isn't affected, neither should his spells.
Fortune
QUOTE (Tarantula)
If a spell isn't an entity, then isn't the caster not being affected by the barrier the best way to say that the caster's spells aren't either?

No. The best way to state that the creator's spells are affected by the barrier is to state ...

QUOTE (SR4 pg. 185)
Should a magician try to cast a spell through a barrier, the target of the spell adds the Force of the barrier to its resistance dice pool.


wink.gif

Tarantula
I still disagree that spells aren't an entity. The Passing Through Barriers section just below wards states quite specifically that spells, foci, spirits, or characters can be forced into having to pass through a barrier. So, if a spell can be forced through a barrier, then why can't a magician permit his to go through his barrier with no penalty.
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