Full Version: Ghost in the Shell
| QUOTE (Snow Fox) |
| which were those? |
The episodes between numbers 9 and 12, and the one after episode 13.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
| The explained the "Individual 11" incident in the cartoon, the terrorist group in the toon was based on a false book that never existed-something that also came out in the toon. |
Yes, waiting for Ms. Exposition at the end was really very useful.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| The trial episode, the episode about Kusanagi's memories, and the episode with the sharpshooter-guy playing poker and telling stories (possibly fictional) about his past. They all served a purpose, IIRC, but managed to do so in a way that, even for the memories one (which introduced some major new information), the series would have been left stronger if they'd simply not been included. ~J |
Well they had to fill out 26 episodes for the season and they wanted to give some more info background on the characters, especially in regards to the sniper guy and kusanagi. Plus, the Kusanagi episode in the first part was showing how they tested the recruits. Yeah, they aren't as strong as the rest of the season, but c'mon, overall the season was pretty good. The trial episode I really like at the end also of how the section 9 got rid of pesky elements such as lawyers.
Kusanagi's memories also set up the relationship between her and Kuze later.
The trial episode gives you an idea how screwed up the court system is, which is why they have no faith in it later on and why Ghoda is so contemptuous of the threat of being arrested, and yeah, loved how Section 9 dealt with the problem. which also shows they can be cold in search of Justice.
The Saito episode exists as mainly filler, but remember it is told while they are on guard duty at a state visit from the "American Empire" and you see more of this relationship exposed at the climax of 2nd gig.
The 1st season of GitS certainly has much more filler episodes with the Laughing Man over all theme getting a much less prominent placement than the Individual 11/Kuze plot in 2nd Gig. Though the fact the Individual 11 was a faux book was revealed about half way through, when the guys chop off their heads. Togasa confronts the newspaper man who tells him that, right before he slashes his own throat.
The trial episode gives you an idea how screwed up the court system is, which is why they have no faith in it later on and why Ghoda is so contemptuous of the threat of being arrested, and yeah, loved how Section 9 dealt with the problem. which also shows they can be cold in search of Justice.
The Saito episode exists as mainly filler, but remember it is told while they are on guard duty at a state visit from the "American Empire" and you see more of this relationship exposed at the climax of 2nd gig.
The 1st season of GitS certainly has much more filler episodes with the Laughing Man over all theme getting a much less prominent placement than the Individual 11/Kuze plot in 2nd Gig. Though the fact the Individual 11 was a faux book was revealed about half way through, when the guys chop off their heads. Togasa confronts the newspaper man who tells him that, right before he slashes his own throat.
| QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Jan 12 2008, 11:26 PM) |
| Kusanagi's memories also set up the relationship between her and Kuze later. |
That's actually kinda my point. It's an episode that managed to be so badly-written that despite setting up the most important relationship in the series (2nd Gig specifically, I mean—in the overall collection of works, Kusanagi-Batou and Batou-Fuchikoma obviously beat it out), the series would have been better off without it.
| QUOTE |
| The trial episode gives you an idea how screwed up the court system is, which is why they have no faith in it later on and why Ghoda is so contemptuous of the threat of being arrested, and yeah, loved how Section 9 dealt with the problem. which also shows they can be cold in search of Justice. |
Again, though, I've already recognized that they play roles—however, having to include a full episode of half-baked legal drama to do so is not a mark of good, or even decent, writing.
| QUOTE |
| The Saito episode exists as mainly filler, but remember it is told while they are on guard duty at a state visit from the "American Empire" and you see more of this relationship exposed at the climax of 2nd gig. |
See above, only about ten times more so. Any episode in which you can spare a shot of a delegation or official vehicle plus about a minute of dialogue talking about it is an episode in which you can accomplish everything this episode did in terms of furthering the overall plot. In the meantime, you get to make the rest of the episode worth watching—this one was at best pointless and at worst ridiculous. On the other hand, it's the only one in which the plot-furthering itself wasn't done badly.
| QUOTE |
| The 1st season of GitS certainly has much more filler episodes with the Laughing Man over all theme getting a much less prominent placement than the Individual 11/Kuze plot in 2nd Gig. |
I'm not criticizing filler episodes as such—at least not the kinds of filler episodes we're discussing (episodes that don't relate to the main plot—hot spring/beach trip episodes need not apply), and I can't really comment in any depth on the first season as it has been significantly longer since I watched it.
There's more to complain about in 2nd Gig's writing, IIRC—even in the good episodes, I'm pretty sure I remember the overall plot development being done hamhandedly with some frequency—but so long as the episode itself is worth watching it doesn't stick in my mind well enough to conduct a discussion about it. The three above did not meet that standard.
~J
hamhanded compared to what? i can think of few TV shows or movies that work with as much subtlety as GitS:SAC. i mean, if you want to talk hamhanded, let's look at the original movie and its sequel! the philosophizing in Innocence left contusions.
Right, I see it as incredibly subtle. They don't telegraph what they are doing like so many programs do, you have to pay attention to the episodes to get the 2 minutes of eprtinant stuff out of a 22 minute episode but later, when they reveal the important stuff, you appreciate "Oh yeah, they did set this up already!" Rather than just surprise you, like:
"Konzudo Ghoda, per law 25.25 section C, that we haven't mentioned in the last 25 episodes, you cannot leave the country." And I'm trying to avoid spoilers since this thread was started by someone who wants to know 'is it worth watching?'
The point is by the time they wrap up the threads, you realize that they did set up important details in an episode you took for granted as filler. That is what I think of as tight writing.
"Konzudo Ghoda, per law 25.25 section C, that we haven't mentioned in the last 25 episodes, you cannot leave the country." And I'm trying to avoid spoilers since this thread was started by someone who wants to know 'is it worth watching?'
The point is by the time they wrap up the threads, you realize that they did set up important details in an episode you took for granted as filler. That is what I think of as tight writing.
Alright, the next question is this. I have seen the Ghost in the Shell movie only. If I am interested in watching this wealth of material previously unknown to me in chronological order (storyline order not production order) then is there a particular order I should watch things in, or does it not matter.
Also, thank you all for your very helpful posts.
Also, thank you all for your very helpful posts.
You can watch Innocence at any time. You should watch the first season of SAC before the second season, though it isn't imperative; the second mostly depends on the first in terms of characterization (though also the fu^H^Htachikoma plotline is mostly set up in the first season). If you're going to watch Solid State Society, do it after watching SAC.
I would advise reading the first manga before watching SAC. The 1.5 manga can be read pretty much whenever. The second manga can be read whenever, and is IMO, like Solid State Society, optional.
Edit: ok, I'm still asleep. You were asking for chronological order. Ok, the thing is that there are three independent timelines going on, so the orders go like this:
Ghost in the Shell (movie) -> Innocence
Ghost in the Shell (manga) -> Human-Error Processor -> Man-Machine Interface
Stand-Alone Complex -> SAC: 2nd Gig -> SAC: Solid State Society
~J
I would advise reading the first manga before watching SAC. The 1.5 manga can be read pretty much whenever. The second manga can be read whenever, and is IMO, like Solid State Society, optional.
Edit: ok, I'm still asleep. You were asking for chronological order. Ok, the thing is that there are three independent timelines going on, so the orders go like this:
Ghost in the Shell (movie) -> Innocence
Ghost in the Shell (manga) -> Human-Error Processor -> Man-Machine Interface
Stand-Alone Complex -> SAC: 2nd Gig -> SAC: Solid State Society
~J
And don't forget the novels they came out. yes, print, book, word novels.
they were written by several of the writers of the SAC series and it takes place in that time. Some of them are quite good.
they were written by several of the writers of the SAC series and it takes place in that time. Some of them are quite good.
There are three books, written by the main writer of 2nd Gig, who is now directing the amine Blood+. The books seem to take place between the first season and 2nd Gig.
Of the 2 TV series you can watch them seperately. If you watch 2nd Gig first, it can be a little confusing when they say stuff like "Just like in the Laughing man case." But that does not really affect it. But you should watch Solid State Society only after 2nd Gig.
Of the 2 TV series you can watch them seperately. If you watch 2nd Gig first, it can be a little confusing when they say stuff like "Just like in the Laughing man case." But that does not really affect it. But you should watch Solid State Society only after 2nd Gig.
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