ah, i see . . we've basivally raised availability to 11 and allowed beta and cultured bioware . . but weapons above 11 is still big no no *g*
and of course we've upgraded limbs to hold everything that could be rightly put into them . . no foot-anchor in arms/torsi but basically everything else that is not made for one specific limb *g*
if you want to put 800k into your arm, fine, have it your way . . but don't come whinning when you break that arm *nods*

oh, todays high-security glass used in dimplomat cars and the such is actually much more durable than ther SR3/4th stuff . .
there's actually glass than can and will withstand to an entire clip fired at it from an AK47 for example . .

it's not the GM's fault for me being stupid *g*
even with grade modifiers . . did you notice that you can in fact start with an Delta Data-Jack? if you forget about it being Delta . . it's got an Availability of 8/0 and costs 8k nuyen O.o
if we were to downgrade our cyberlimbs, we'd probably use 4th ed Aug rules for Limbs . . but right now, it's easier like this . . and of course it's easy and cheap to armor up one limb . . but if the pre-made adventure calls for dangerous cyber to be deactivated and you use a shock-glove to kick-start(literally) your own cyber-legs it's your own(in this case mine) fault for not waiting 5 minutes untill you can get the codes to do that without damaging them ^^

I have to agree with people suggesting the use of tact computers, orientation systems, and GPS. I'll also suggest a knowsoft link with some external storage you should have anyway. if your going for broke - a mnemonic enhancer lvl 3, lowers your karma costs on skills by 1, skills being something we riggers need a lot of.

The SL is a great drone whose desirable point is the armor, it can mount an AK or something reasonable starting. The thing is meant to live through hell, however it has the problem of being fairly inept at shooting targets so the only effective way to use one without upgrades is to be jacked in. Still I try to include 1 into my builds as an effective means to get a team into where they need to go, I've usually used this drone as the one I primarily jump into until I can get an ares guardian, and even then it remains effective in many situations.

Other tracked/wheeled drones in this class are good to have as well, they may not have the armor of the SL, but if used as support drones, their boost in sensors and pilot may make them useful to dissuade mooks from getting too close.

Rotor drones are essential as well. While they may not have the ability to enter buildings as effectively, they are able to change positions to adapt to different situations. Additionally they can provide decent intel gathering and travel faster than blimps, just keep them at a good range from ground troops. They are also easier to travel with in most situations.

Get at least 1 drone with an arm please. nothing will stop you in your tracks like going a reinforced door you need to type a pin number in. its down right dangerous to do that on scene as it is.

A neat little addition to add to your primary vehicle, is a holographic driver.

This gives you the ability to change the apparent driver along with the colour and licence plate, by generating a high quality hologram in the drivers compartment. Sure, it won't hold up to detailed inspection, but thats half the point, if they're doing a detailed inspection of you, you already messed up.

With the ready availability of TriD equipment, someone with the right skill set would be able to whip up one of these in short order.

As for the good old Steel Lynx...get it a bigger ammo hopper and let it lay down suppressive fire. Accuracy doesn't mean squat if all it's doing is spraying a couple of hundred rounds down the hallway...

I don't know about "absolutely no presence" (well, ok, I guess it's true—probably, at least, like most of Aztlan), but even just not being the urban provider goes a long way. Chicago, for example, is primarily contracted to Eagle Security.

~J

and then there's still allways silencers/sound suppressors *g*
but i just don't get why people would want that weapon anyway . . Savalette is basically the little brother and not much worse with some strength to help with recoil for example O.o

Savalette Guardian only fires one burst per Complex Action.

meaning you waste ammo and accumulate recoil faster if i ain't forgetting something . . and in my eyes, if you need more than one 12S Burst you're doing something wrong *g*

Like maybe firing at someone with enough combat pool to dodge one attack, even at TN 5?

~J

's why i am not such a big fan of Smartlink . . only on REALLY Close is it better than Laser-Pointer if your eyes have zoom in them . . and Success at TN3 before modifiers is good enough in most cases anyway . . and you get to use combat pool for more successes too, so it evens out more or less . . and most of the time, if you can get away with firing a savalette without recoil modifiers because of your strength it does not matter if the other guy can dodge your attack, because you're pretty much likely to be able to do the same with his attack or simply soak it up

To each his own. I have always found the Savalette Guardian to be highly over-rated.

*shrugs* i HAD an Thunderbolt once . . team almost did not make it because lone-star did, in fact, identify the weapon by the sound of the gun-shots fired by me . . and did react to it as if they were dealing with cop-killers <.< . . i threw the damn thing some hundred meters away and made bee-line for the opposite direction *g*
never had such problems with a Savalette and if you get 2 matching pairs you can handle them in style ^^

by the way, why do you think it is overrated? O.o
at least it has the option of firing single shot . . i think the thunderbolt only does burst or am i remembering that wrong?

I haven't, but that's mostly because I've never heard it rated that highly. Don't think I've ever actually seen a player take it or taken it myself, but I'm not certain.

It might be a good choice for a lower-skill character, provided they had access to some basic recoil compensation. The penalty to opponent's dodge and extra damage and Power could make up for the lack of expected successes.

Edit: Stahlseele: well that's your problem right there, you didn't kill them off. Any time you leave a cop (of whatever the appropriate corporation or, in rare occasions, governmental affiliation) alive, you embolden them to interfere in your business next time.

~J

i usually try not to kill too much <.< . .
i just use gel/gamma scopolamine untill i get one or two medium damage done to me ^^
i did NOT shoot at the STAR . . they just happened to stumble upon me trying to defend myself with one of those weapons <.<

my drones will blot out the sun!

perfectly viable tactic . . makes one think why the NPC's try something like that from time to time . .
and if you do something like that think of the electronical warfare . . especially encryption to stpo other people from hijackthis your drones *g*

Well, so far he mostly runs away and hides in his van, so that isn't a problem.


Or maybe you have two targets. A second burst fire might help there a little.


Thanks for all the rigger help everyone... I am finishing up the character respect today.

If you're willing to post the stats, I'd be interested to see the final product.

~J

...and especially which drones you took

Cheers

Max

A low-level Cranial Remote Deck is worth considering, simply for the Server system rules. By making it a supersubscriber, you get all the benefits of the CRD with all the nifty cheap accessories of the big remote control deck.
Something that some GM's may let you get away with is supersubscribing yourself to more than one RCD, which is a *huge* advantage.

Unfortunately I didnt finish yet... got side tracked by beer and the Red Wings/Avalanche game. Have to finish today though, so I would be happy to have that posted for you by tomorrow or Thursday.

By Remote Control Deck do you mean Comlink? if not can you link me the book and page#?

this is a 3rd edition discussion, Exodus. commlinks are 4th ed.

i've always thought the toughest part about being a rigger is the upkeep. my drone rigger, Tovera, has to pay almost 16K a month just to keep her drones running. granted, she's got several 'custom' drones, and all her drones have mods, but still. i ended up having her run an automated security business on the side to help alleviate costs.

No Wonder why I was compfused! My mistake

My player decided to go with an external deck to save essence that would have accrued from all the headware and cyberlimb. What is the purpose of the rating of the remote deck (SR3, pg 136-138, 306)? Its flux rating is an automatic 2, right? I have to purchase a signal booster (SR3, pg 290) to boost the flux rating or ECM (don't see that listed... is that the RCD rating?).

I have searched both SR3 and R3 and can't find what the purpose is of the remote deck rating (let alone the CRD). I must have missed it, or maybe it's somewhere else, or most likely, I am just highly 'compfused', as Exodus would say.

The number of drones you can have subscribed is equal to twice your RCD's rating, and the number you can have affiliated (actively controlled, available to jump into or to issue orders to) is equal to your RCD's rating. Additionally, it sets a TN for certain electronic warfare attacks. Affiliating or disaffiliating a drone is a Simple action, so it's roughly a Complex action to swap out for a new drone from your subscriber list (a little better than that, since you can split the actions across passes or turns).

In general the higher the better; my advice is to pick up a 6 at chargen and don't worry about upgrading until you've either got a bunch of spare cash or you get a big drone stable.

Edit: pagerefs would be nice. The bit about subscriptions is p156, SR3. EW stuff is R3 p37.

~J

Thank you sir! I will get to finishing up... or at least trying.

EDIT: Where does ECM come into play?

===================

EDIT: HERE HE IS... Still got some touching up to do. This is not my character, the player wanted to be more versatile and have all these (and more) Build/Repair skills. Sometimes players get so upset and don't understand that shadowrunners can't be an expert at EVERYTHING.

Got 60 grand left for contacts and anything we missed. I encrypted all the drones and the van at level 5 to match the Remote Decks rating. Also have to figure the Essence Index Rating and my have to drop the Synaptic Accelerator.

How do I add a video camera to all the drones that streams back to the rigger, who has 90 Mp of memory (is that enough?, I read 1 Mp equals 60 stills).

Without further ado....


NAME:
STREET NAMES:
ARCHETYPE: Rigger/Mechanic
AGE, DOB:
RACE: Human
MONEY: 61,005 (chargen money)
GOOD KARMA
TOTAL KARMA EARNED

-CHARACTER DESCRIPTION-
-ATTRIBUTES AND STATS-
-SKILLS-
-CYBERWARE/BIOWARE-
-EDGES AND FLAWS-
-LIFESTYLES-
-EQUIPMENT AND GEAR-
-VEHICLES-

Just to warn you, I'm continuing to say "you" when I mean "your player", since I can't seem to remember to not do it that way.


It comes in in a few places. One big one is that active ECM has a chance to raise the TN to gain a sensor lock on the ECMing vehicle (SR3 p138). Sensor locks are used primarily for Sensor-Enhanced Gunnery (you can go to Manual Gunnery to avoid the ECM issues), but SEG rocks the Casbah, and if metahuman Signatures weren't so high would rock the rest of Algiers. SEG is also what drones not being actively piloted by a jumped-in Rigger are required to use. You can also interfere with transmitting devices, the rules for which they very curiously put on SR3 p291 (under Jammer). There are more advanced jamming rules in Rigger 3, on pages 35 and 85.


Oh my. Well, my comments are below, your (or his) mileage may vary.



As I'll get to, I'd advise this anyway. It doesn't seem to me to make much sense to sacrifice your chance at being the God in the machine just to get a few more initiative passes in meatspace.


Have the Drone have at least one point of Sensor rating (if you read the customization section carefully, it's impossible to have a Drone without that). That's pretty much what a drone does all the time. SR3 p135 has the rules for precisely what is included in any given level of Sensors.

Actually, now that I look at it it also has the confirmation that audio and video can be transmitted. Same page, next section down.

60 stills or 0.5 minutes of audio+video or 1 minute of audio or video. Whether some combination of up to 45 minutes of video+audio, 90 minutes of audio or video, or 5400 pictures is enough is a decision only your Rigger can make.


Aaaagh! Where did the points go?

A little attributes-light for a Rigger, and by "a little" I mean "quite". Even more so than your typical character, taking Intelligence less than 6 is a risky proposition. This may not be a huge problem, particularly depending on the kind of game, but before considering adding more points to Attributes to begin with I'd suggest dropping Body down to 3 or 2 and putting the points into Intelligence, Willpower, or Quickness. Before skimping on Willpower, consider that dump shock for vehicles you're directly jacked into is Physical damage, not Stun. Another thing to consider if you've got non-maxed Willpower after all point readjustment is taking two levels of Sensitive Neural Structure; it's a legitimate flaw for a Rigger, and it lets you buy two more levels of Willpower "free", which at least let you get the other benefits (like Combat Pool, or spell resistance).


Oh, so that's where they went. IMO, there should be some serious consolidation of skills here. Some thoughts:

Because of the way post-chargen advancement works, it's generally advisable to have a really, really good reason to take a skill at anything but 6 or 0. This goes double for Riggers, who have the advantage of very favourable defaulting rules (can default to Reaction at +2 instead of +4) and the dual-pool advantage in combat (even if Control Pool does get drained faster than Combat Pool for non-Riggers).

The first step is to drop B/R Combustion Engine, which doesn't actually exist (rather I should say, it isn't a specifically-listed canon skill, and it is never required by the vehicle repair rules. It's below the level of detail Shadowrun uses, though "by power plant type" might be a good category for specializations if you're looking to make the current by-specific-vehicle categories less restrictive). That frees up five points, four of which should really probably go into Attributes, but we'll leave that aside for now.

Next, unless it's a big thing for the character (either in background or for first-priority acquisition), and it's really going to get used a lot (lots of amphibious operations?), I recommend dropping Hovercraft. Most of the hovercrafts are quite expensive, and the inexpensive ones need a lot of (expensive) modification to turn into a proper Runnermobile. I recommend dropping the associated B/R at the same time. That should free up enough points to bring some core skills up to 6 (like Gunnery!). Might also recommend dropping Motorcycle and the associated B/R, since motorcycles sacrifice most of the features that make Rigging so wonderful, but I know a lot of players like to have it for reasons I can't really comprehend.

Regarding Pistols, unless you're very, very certain you're never going to advance that skill again, I recommend not specializing. The way it is now you can buy exactly one more level of the specialization before you have to upgrade the base skill. The only chargen specialization I really recommend is 2 -> 1/3 for some utility skill that your character will never use heavily but is useful to have even at low levels (Biotech/First Aid often gets this treatment, in my experience).

Knowledge skills are pretty much a free-for-all, but if the character will have any familiarity with the area I'd recommend trying to fit in an Area (Roads and Highways) knowledge skill or something like that.


High is a good choice. Not only does it alleviate some maintenance costs, it's also comfy.


The first note is that the RCD has a Signal Amplifier 8, which is a no-no at chargen (Ratings are restricted to 6). Drone loadout is pretty decent (I'm honored ), but it's a little light on long-range surveillance capability and heavy firepower (the flamethrowers cut right through a lot of personal armor, but even lightly-armored vehicles will bounce it and it can't load AP/AV rounds); I'd suggest picking up one or more Strato-9s, or at least a Schattenauge.

On the topic of APDS, though, that's Avail 14, so a no-go at chargen.

That and a pile of edges/flaws should do you. So, how much have I managed to mangle the concept in a quest for optimization?

~J

I'm a little leery of headware memory. For 60Mps of headware you can instead get a chipjack and slot an empty 100-1000Mp optical memory chip (or a knowsoft/linguisoft if you need it; chipjacks come with a knowsoft link included).

Definitely second Kagetenshi's notion of swapping some vehicle skills over into attributes. Attributes are especially important for a rigger (particularly anything affecting Reaction), and are murder to upgrade post-chargen; skills not so much.

I'm a little surprised at the lack of microscopic vision on a rigger with artificial eyes. I'd look at that before even vision mag honestly; all your distance stuff is going to be done through drone sensors, not with your meatbod.

Enhanced Articulation has been called enhanced artwinkulation for so long there has to be a good reason for it. Might be worth a look.

I didn't notice it above, but are you allowing beta and delta 'ware at chargen? Cultured bioware (the cerebral booster and synaptic accelerator) is also supposed to be disallowed, but allowing it in tends to be a common houserule.

That's a common misconception. Bioware that is typically only available as cultured is allowed. It is the cultured versions of normal Bioware that is disallowed at chargen.

Its a high level campaign, so I allowed a lot of no-nos as you say. APDS ammo, beta and delta ware, which isnt always convenient and/or good investments at chargen. I thought I had answered this when people bitched about the Thunderbolt. If you add up the numbers, they started with 135 BP and few restrictions.

Yes, I tried to argue him out of all the B/R and told him to try and focus on one thing to be great at, but he could not. He wanted to be a jack-of-all-trades, but great at everything. So... after many times explaining that a joat is someone who is good at many things but a master of none and not getting through, I said fuck it. Have your god dammed hovercraft skill. ... Do you want to buy a hovercraft instead of a van? -Nope.

Anyways, I do encourage them to take odd skills that they think their character would have. They got 15-25 starting karma award for their character backgrounds, 35 questions and an in character background. So I am actually glad he kept the hovercraft. You should have seen the list before!

I will speak to him later about losing all the vehicle skills and putting those into some more attributes and such.

As for the no heavy artillery with the drones. This team tends to shy away from combat. We had four sessions (prior to the rigger joining) that was all good role playing with them scouting and planning a run. I think the plan is to build up the guns later, I guess, and let the gun bunnies go nuts for now.

As for the microscopic vision, good thinking. I am a tard, thats why I got the magnification. Also, good idea for the chipjack. We will look into that.

As for the combustion engine skill, he got that cause it has many more uses. Lawn mowers, boats, weed wackers, ect. He did make a good point, that it covers a lot of ground. If my player is ever on a speed boat, he doesnt need boat B/R to fix it, if the engine is broke, and he can get free cookies from the old lady next door by fixing her lawn mower.

So, I know that he is not a perfect rigger, but thats not what the player wants. Now with a few bucks from this next two or three missions he goes on he will be able to buy some pretty sweet drones with MGL-12s... and flamethrowers! That is if he can afford his mortgage.

Okay, we kept the helicopter and car skill, cause the character had those skills before becoming a rigger. That was in the character background that he provided me. I switched up a few things from the suggestions above. After loosing the synaptic accel we got over 200 grand left to waste.

We were looking at getting a miniblimp or something that could provide long range surveillance and air support. For support he wanted to add a couple MGLs for smoke and cover. Any Suggestions? Can I just put them on Kage's? It should be able to take two pintle mounts for MGL-12s.

Left over money is going to go for a small team aerial transport and contacts... and buying me lunch since I have put so much time into his character.

NAME:
STREET NAMES: Jeb
ARCHETYPE: Rigger/Mechanic
AGE, DOB:
RACE: Human
MONEY: 211,005 (chargen money)
GOOD KARMA
TOTAL KARMA EARNED

-CHARACTER DESCRIPTION-
-ATTRIBUTES AND STATS-
-SKILLS-
-CYBERWARE/BIOWARE-
-EDGES AND FLAWS-
-LIFESTYLES-
-EQUIPMENT AND GEAR-
-VEHICLES-

Bah. I tend to think of the FAQ rule changes as houserule suggestions; otherwise all of the silly stuff in there like their ruling on Invisibility extending LOS would be too annoying to bother with.

Not as much a 'rule change' as a clarification. It was always supposed to work that way.

That's demonstrably false, though.

~J

In what way?

Take the called shot FAQ, which explicitly contradicts the utterly unambiguous text. Likewise the entry on bioware, which even drags in a justification which is never used anywhere else (vehicles require an Avail 14 Facility to build, but you can still buy cars at chargen). Also the entry on drone sensors and Invisibility, despite the fact that Signature is well-established and Invisibility (either variety) does not anywhere in the text say or suggest that it changes it.

~J

Note that I was not referring to the entirety of the FAQ in general, but to that one particular rules clarification.

But that's not correct. What the FAQ says is that, "if you want an official call", all Cultured bioware (including cultured-only 'ware) is forbidden at chargen because it takes a beta clinic to implant. That's the bit I covered above with my reminder that vehicles take non-chargen-available facilities to create as well, but they're still buyable.

~J

Or, even more famously:

But I think Fortune was talking about my invisibility issue. I'm actually kinda surprised Fortune doesn't remember the various magical time-traveling photons discussions; we've been having them for years, especially when SR4 came out and actually made the serious error of saying that the illusion spell Invisibility actually warped light, suddenly transforming it into a manipulation spell (and adding even more problems).

Oh, I remember. I was just choosing to spare everyone else the pain ...