Ok, in another Thread, they mentioned the possibility of Awakened Cyborgs, and at first, it went against everything that I would think is right..but..

Maximum Magic Attribute=Essence(round down)+Initiation Grade

Cyborg creation options do include taking someone who is already experienced, but there are some limits to what they can do(but things they can do that baby and cloned brains can't).

So, if you have a mage who has several grades of Initiatin and maxed magic(lets say, a magic of , when his essence is reduced to 0.1, his maximum magic becomes 2.

Now, the question is, though, can such a Magician still cast spells, counter-spell, or, well, do anything magically related?(I assume he keeps all his skills and spells, but..can he use them?)

Note that mages in a jar are limited to sensory gear that they paid essence for. So, for example, for the mage in a jar to blast you in the normal way, the jar is going to need some cyber-eyes that the mage paid essence for attached (or just a little view-port that your original meaty eyes can look out from). Also note that a jar driving something around is probably not going to be exposed (inside an armored box instead) so astral perception out of your jar is not going to get very far. Note, as you paid essence for your jar, I'd assume you don't have any trouble seeing through/out of it with astral perception is no problem.

So the mage/jar/tank setup has a jar in an armored box, in a tank. The jar has some cyber eyes. The armored box has some fiber optic cables (i.e. mage sight goggles), and these go out to the surface of the tank, where it can cast spells on you.

Actually that quote just means that a jarhead cannot continue being a Magician or Technomancer.

If the jarheads were to actually become cyberzombies wouldnt they be able to do the things that the OP was attempting to do with a positive essence? They'd have a Magic of 1 + Initiation of 1, and be able to cast up to force 4 spells?

Fortune, doesn't that quoted section by dunner also refer specifically to Latent Awakening rather than Awakening in general?

Shrug. Possibly, but as far as I am concerned, it refers to Awakening in general. Anyone who has less than 0.99999999 or less in Essence cannot be Awakened.

As further evidence, I put to you that a character can only ever Initiate to a maximum of 2x his Magic rating. If a character has less than 1 Essence (and hence a natural Magic of 0), he cannot Initiate, as 2 x 0 is still 0.

I get how it works, but thanks.

In cases like you describe (which I knew someone would post about as soon as I hit enter), I admit that's probably canon in SR4, but it doesn't work that way in my game (and it never has been).

As an aside, I was incorrect about the interaction of Magic and Initiate Grades ...

Yeah I know. As I said, I am very tired. I tried to edit before anyone answered, but my damn connection sucks shit tonight.

And what keeps Marines from becoming magically active anyway?

Kalvan, that is because it would be haxxoring the rules.

But yeah, I can see how a jarhead would have issues being magically active as many characters that have less than 1 Essence tend to be so from creation and it's hard to initiate PRIOR to character creation.

Makes sense that they can't be magically active.

This is one of those things I like about supplements... additional dimensions to express power but not necessarily to increase power.

That's why smart mages just get thier limbs lopped off, and stick themselves into an armored suitcase with a life support system.

Well, smart isn't exactly the first word I would use to describe that.

Marines are not known for being smart.

-Siege

Edit: Sorry, my first thought was "have you ever tried to wake a Marine up?"

Saw this thread and thought it was another character building thread wherein one designed awakened Marines.

You can let it derail into becoming one

Yeah..my original thought got proven wrong (and I and my fellow players with my Evil GM breath a collective sigh of relief)

Personally, I would love to see what people would think a 400 BP Marine Mage would be like(just remember, every Marine, regardless of specialty, is first, and foremost, a Rifleman)

I'm afraid that sticking to 400 BPs won't make for a good Marine Mage. Other "build me a xyz"-threads have shown that 400 BPs are not enough for building specialized characters who're good in what they're supposed to be.

They are as long as you remember that 6-8 is is the average professional dicepool in the Sixth World so marines, spies, special forces, and the like don't need hugh dicepools to get the job done in Fourth Edition.

Doesn't one of the earlier edition sourcebooks (I'm going to guess Fields of Fire) mention that magic is primarily used in supporting roles in conventional engagements? Because that could affect the build of the magical marine. It would seem that a medic that could return a injured rifleman to fighting fit in moments would be considered more useful that someone who replicates a mortar, but costs more and needs to get closer.

This goes back to first Ed. The "burnt out mage' archetype with limited magic ability and cyberware

every time i read this topic title, my first thought is "Muscles Are Required, INT/LOG/CHA Not Expected".