QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 3 2008, 12:32 PM)

I know I'm just being dense and unimaginative, so thanks in advance.
Everyone can get tripped up by magic, so don't worry about it. But it works very well and not too slow once you get used to it. I think I can answer some of your questions, not necessarily in order.
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 3 2008, 12:32 PM)

In particular we had a problem with Bind because the description really doesn't tell me how freaking powerful it is, in fact, aside from guarenteeing that it would effect a given target, I had no idea why a player would cast it at anyting higher than force 4.
Something pretty fundamental is wrong here. Maybe several things. Firstly, the description for Bind spells out that its effect is determined by net hits. That means that you're only determining the effect by how many hits your Magic + Spellcasting test beats the targets Strength + Counterspelling (the target may well not have any counterspelling as well). So there is no guarantee at all that a target will be affected. They might roll well, the mage might roll poorly.
Secondly, the maximum number of hits you can get on a spellcasting test is the Force of the spell. So if you cast the spell at Force 4, then the most effect that you can get out of it is 4 hits, even if the player rolls more than that on the spellcasting test.
The effect is listed as -1 to the opponent's Agility attribute per net effect and the target can attempt to break free. I can only see a couple of problems you might have run into to cause the problems. Either you missed the actual spell description and were working purely off the tables at the back of Street Magic, or the mage cast the spell no a vehicle / drone and you misread the Object Resistance Threshold table to mean the minimum force, rather than the minimum number of hits. A vehicle is a Highly Processed object meaning that you deduct the first three hits that are scored before you even consider any effect on the vehicle of the Bind spell. Body is normally used in place of Strength for vehicles so most vehicles should be able to break free fairly easily. As they don't have a direct equivalent to Agility, I would simply apply the net hits on the spell as a negative to the appropriate dice pool, e.g. for driving, shooting or whatever.
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 3 2008, 12:32 PM)

What the hell do you all do with Ignite too? What's to keep a force 4 Ignite spell from lighting an entire tank or part there of on fire? It says in the description that it burns normally... last time I checked burning metal burns pretty damn hot and for freakin forever.
Well I would normally only apply Ignite to things that can actually burn. Metal doesn't burn. You could reduce it to a plasma with a whacking amount of power, but even that's not technically "burning". Even if you allowed Ignite to affect a tank (which I would not, except perhaps for the ammo which would be out of sight anyway), it's not going to do much damage. For a start, it'd probably take a couple of combat turns to get the four hits you need to reach the threshold, secondly, 4DV is going to be shrugged off by an armoured tank anyway.
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 3 2008, 12:32 PM)

How do you all run magic so that it doesn't completely side track the game everytime the player wants to summon a spirit or cast a complex spell?
Practice. Well, practice and cheat sheets. Keep a handy reference until you have everything memorised.
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 3 2008, 12:32 PM)

How can I do this balancing without making it stupid easy for the the mage to "break" the universe? What's the best way to control the almost overwhelming power of a magic level 5 mage tooling around discretely lighting shit on fire or projecting all over the damn place?
This is a subject in and of itself. For a start, recognize that one of the things magic lacks is consistency. Certainly a mage can wreak havoc with a powerful lightening bolt. But can they do it ten times in a row? Nope - they'll knock themselves senseless with drain. The Samurai excels at shooting people all day. A mage does not, or else they tone down their power to achieve it. Likewise, remember that Spellcasting is a Complex action. The samurai is squeezing off a couple of bursts for every spell the mage fires off. And with likely having extra initiative passes, probably more.
Secondly, keep an eye on the various modifiers for spell casting. Anything that affects visibility, smoke, partial cover, etc. affects a spell casting test (except for indirect combat spells which are handled differently).
Thirdly, ensure that you are aware of the rules that hits are capped by Force and that hits only count after the Threshold has been reached for objects.
Fourth, be aware of the limits of astral projection. You can't read a trid screen from the Astral and you can't zip through earth.
Fifth, make judicious use of magical countermeaures - wage mages, watcher spirits, bound guardian elementals, dual-natured critters (especially useful in enclosed spaces such as underground), wards, background count (use this sparingly).
Six, take a similar approach to Matrix actions in that it's not always what you can do, but what you can do without being noticed. A lot of corps will have security arrangements for magical reinforcement and if they recognize that they are under magical attack, elementals can get there
fast via the Astral plane. A need for stealth affects magicians just as much as samurai.
Seven, don't over do it. Magic is powerful and is meant to be powerful. It pays for it in that if a magician over uses it, they get hurt. That's particularly true for binding high force spirits.
Which reminds me - Eight, summoned and bound spirits are NOT secondary characters for the player. They remain under the GM's control and are intelligent beings. Be strict on the number of services and remember that the summoning process is not some game of legal contracting whereby if a player words things right a spirit has to be a totally obedient slave. Attack two different groups of people? That's two services right there. Heal me twice? That's two services. And a spirit is not obliged to spend Edge on a player's behalf. Do you put your very best into
your job every day? If a magician really abuses spirits, they've even been known to spend Edge on their resistance test for Binding. The more powerful a spirit, the more it is its own individual.
I hope this helps. Keep the questions coming.
-K.
EDIT: I'll get you next time MaxHunter!!!