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b1ffov3rfl0w
QUOTE (swirler @ Mar 13 2008, 10:31 AM) *
sure they wouldn't use slang from 20 years before, but why would they use slang from 70+ years before, is my point, I guess
yeah chummer felt kinda stilted before but after you read enough sourcebooks and novels they all just kinda flow
or atleast they did for me
hell even the FPS community picked up on frag, of course thats for killing, but if you get fragged, you are fragged IMO
grinbig.gif


Well, some slang sticks around. "Fuck" has been around for centuries, for example. Supposedly kestrels were once called "windfuckers" and nobody thought this was hilariously rude. The Mitsubishi Windfucker is equipped with a Clearsight 3 Autosoft. Windfucker is going to be the name of an airborne drone, an Eagle shaman, or a band.

"Frag" is military slang from the Vietnam war, I think, and refers specifically to intentional friendly fire (I guess you could call it) using a fragmentation grenade. Easier to get away with than shooting, because there's not really a way to do a ballistics test on grenade shrapnel, and you could plausibly have thrown yours somewhere else. Frag, the fragging fragger is fragged because you forgot to defrag the fragging memory.

"Drek" is one I like, because Yiddish words make me think of Mad Magazine. Oy vey, omae, you're so full of drek you could plotz. Blech.
Synner667
QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Mar 13 2008, 08:24 PM) *
Let me add

Slower healing times...

Double Body per day... means that grievous wounds take a couple days and you're back to good as new.

I liked how a Deadly wound had a longer healing phase than a serious wound.

30 days base for a deadly wound... and then you had a serious... it took a while to patch up... which just made more sense to me.



Things like that are the "streamlining" [dumbing down] that SR has gone through to give make it more appealing to a wider audience - many players want to wade into gunfights, take damage, and then be up and about in days..
..Ignoring the semi-realistic healing rules that mean being out of action for a long time [and the usual result of being in a gunfight].
cryptoknight
QUOTE (Synner667 @ Mar 13 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Things like that are the "streamlining" [dumbing down] that SR has gone through to give make it more appealing to a wider audience - many players want to wade into gunfights, take damage, and then be up and about in days..
..Ignoring the semi-realistic healing rules that mean being out of action for a long time [and the usual result of being in a gunfight].


Exactly... I could take a deadly wound (say have both my legs blown off) and the new rules basically mean I regrow them back on in less than a week.
Stahlseele
if not using the "advanced" wound-rules from arsenal . .
mfb
well, to be fair, the SR3 healing rules weren't exactly the pinnacle of gritty realism either. first aid could knock your wounds down by a full level, and if you threw enough money at it, you could get the rest healed up ridiculously quickly. i had an adept who had a bad habit of taking S+3 in almost every fight he got in. the first time it happened, we were on a timetable, so we did all the healing rolls. he paid extra for beta-grade care and ended up healing 9 boxes of damage in some thing like 34 hours.
Synner667
Note, I said "semi-realistic" wink.gif

And your example involves someone who paid over the odds for his care = should get better healing.


It's always a fine balance between taking time to heal damage, and being fun for players
Chrysalis
Fuck v.

[ Spoiler ]


Fuckwind

[ Spoiler ]


Frag

[ Spoiler ]


Drek

[ Spoiler ]


Quoted from OED.
Particle_Beam
Ritual spellcasting changed a little bit. Now, you can throw fireballs and other indirect combat spells (formerly categorized as elemental manipulations) from the other end of the world... Of course, one does wonder where the fireball might actually originate (is it by the casters, the ritual spotter?).
b1ffov3rfl0w
QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Mar 13 2008, 04:42 PM) *
Exactly... I could take a deadly wound (say have both my legs blown off) and the new rules basically mean I regrow them back on in less than a week.


I don't think the new rules really have a provision for having your legs blown off. But you're right, they're totally unrealistic otherwise. State-of-the-art medical care in 2070, sure, but just healing that fast on your own is crazy.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Particle_Beam @ Mar 13 2008, 11:57 PM) *
Ritual spellcasting changed a little bit. Now, you can throw fireballs and other indirect combat spells (formerly categorized as elemental manipulations) from the other end of the world... Of course, one does wonder where the fireball might actually originate (is it by the casters, the ritual spotter?).

whu? what?
since when?
the only thing remotely connected to that is the ability to cast spells through a network of fiberoptic sensors for corp-mages . . there was talk about the spell if being an elemental effect spell originating by the mage and going in a straight line to the trget, having to go through walls and everything in between to reach their target destination . . so a fireball would go boom in the same room as the mage, but stunball would drop the targeted group without any trouble, aside from the hightened target number coming from casting through the network in the first place . .
BlueMax
The slang is missed. We use it at our table still. Hacker bothers me to no end. Its 'Linkers for me baby. Link Cowboys.

However, I love the changing story.
Understand that I started with just the first ed hardback, so my world formation had a lot of fuzzyness. And when I got my Hardback first edition, I was a fragging great deal younger and more impressionable.
This is all POV dag nabit, so don't think I am saying its fact.

Here goes anyway

Then
Post apocalyptic world: Masses dead from waves of VITAS, Race riots, Mass terrorism, Dragon anger and corp wars. Displaced masses from the pie slicing of North America.
Now
Its like 1999, countries that you got the impression died out have the same political power, culture and presence they did in 1999. Fifty years to rebuild, so I ain't complaining.

Then
Corp Wars:
Governments were patsies. You kept them around so that someone handled the garbage and water collectively, but they had no power.
Now:
Limited Government revival. People actually mention Governments with respect. A feeling there are Civil Services again.

Then
NAN Power: The NAN was hot from kicking hoop and it was in charge.
Now:
No NAN characters in the base books. NAN schman. Probably the only governments to lose power.

Then
Goblinization: Troll Characters had gone through goblinization and were part of a young culture.
Now
Pasta... errr Or'zet. Multi generational trolls and orks.

Rules:
Then
Metahuman oddity:
It took an A man, think about it! For those new to the game, thats about 150BP(roughly guys, roughly)! Just to be Meta.
Now:
The general populations are marginally more meta but players, thats another story.

I missed out on SURGE but I plan on reading about it.
What a wonderful trip its been so far.
b1ffov3rfl0w
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Mar 13 2008, 07:26 PM) *
Then
NAN Power: The NAN was hot from kicking hoop and it was in charge.
Now:
No NAN characters in the base books. NAN schman. Probably the only governments to lose power.


I think the Bounty Hunter is a native Sioux speaker or something. But yeah. Also: aside from the one couatly-lookin logo repeated throughout the book, there's hardly Mesoamerican-style art in the BBB.
mfb
QUOTE (BlueMax)
I missed out on SURGE but I plan on reading about it.

no! save yourself! it's too late for me, but you can still live a happy, fulfilling life if you don't read about SURGE!
Herald of Verjigorm
Then.

Now.

hobgoblin
QUOTE (b1ffov3rfl0w @ Mar 13 2008, 11:58 PM) *
I don't think the new rules really have a provision for having your legs blown off. But you're right, they're totally unrealistic otherwise. State-of-the-art medical care in 2070, sure, but just healing that fast on your own is crazy.


true that, SR3 had a optional table to roll on for D wounds to see if any vital part of ones anatomy was missing.

SR4 forgoes that unless one goes for the advanced rules in augmentation, and imo thats a good thing.

one do not really want a new player have his character sit out a month or more just because he had a bad damage staging roll at the first session. at that point he could just as well have had his character dive on a grenade and started rolling a new one.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm @ Mar 14 2008, 03:50 AM) *


funny thing, i like em both.

the old one have a nice nostalgia to it, but the new one kinda fit the new, more modern game (in tech level of the world as much as anything else).
Adarael
Re: nukes not working.

Nowhere, anywhere, in any source book or official material is it even implied that nuclear power does not work like it's supposed to. In fact, there are more nuke plants churning out more power than the in current world by a large amount. The nuclear accidents and failures of shadowrun are easily attributable to a number of outside influences, including:
-Direct magical interference, be it GDs or IEs or spirits or whatever;
-Shadowrun type operations.
-Mirage.
-Conspiracies.

The idea that nuke power doesn't work normally in the 6th world was inferred by AH as an explanation for the oddities surrounding warheads and power plants. It's not official. While I respect AH's dedication to explaining everything and collating massive amounts of SR data, I disagree with him on this point, and I get kind of teeth-gnashy when people imply that It's Just A Fact.
FrankTrollman
Ritual Sorcery used to be intimately connected with Grounding. That is, all physical spells traveled through the astral plane and then grounded into the target. In order to cast a spell on a physical target you needed something to ground through, and you could use your own physical line of sight as a ground (which was the standard way to do it). Ritual Sorcery was centered around using sympathy between objects to create a ground in another place.

In 4th edition, grounding is a thing of the past. Normal physical spells start, travel, and finish on the physical plane. They do not ever appear on or travel through the astral plane. Further, ritual spellcasting through links is no longer the default, it's a fraggin metamagic. The number of people who can actually cast a spell through a lock of hair has dwindled from "damn near everyone who can cast a spell at all" to "a tiny select group of magical assassins." Now how exactly it is that a fireball gets to the target in SR4's Ritual Schema is somewhat up in the air. Fireballs still never travel through the astral plane, they just appear at the target when cast with ritual spellcasting. No explanation.

In previous editions the movement of ritual spells through the astral was explicit. So explicit that you could actually attack them once on their way in - essentially a ritual spell was like a fast ball and if you happened to be standing there with a magical baseball bat you could potentially hit it away. In SR4 the ritual spell apparently goes through a metaplanar shortcut, and homes in on something that an astral spotter can assense (or something tied to a ritual link if you have that metamagic technique).

How an Astral Spotter works in SR4 is pretty puzzling. The spotter literally can't cast the spell or participate in casting the spell because he's on the wrong plane of existence to manipulate any of the mana that is being used. The caster(s) manipulate mana on the physical plane and the physical target has physical mana manipulated around him to cause his ass to explode in physical fire. No astral mana is used, but an astral spotter watching the whole thing is a key component of any group that doesn't have a linker on staff (and that metamagic is going to be highly controlled on the grounds that it allows people to murder pretty much anyone and has no other real use).

-Frank
Stahlseele
'scuse me but:
if it's coming from AH, that more or less makes it canon for OUR group . . 'cause frankly? he makes more sense than the book-canon most of the time . .
and i did not know about that coming from AH untill now either O.o
Particle_Beam
@FrankTrollman: Wait, ritual spellcasting with a material link (hairs, fingers, blood for people or bricks for buildings) doesn't require a metamagic technique, does it?
Eyeless Blond
That's right; it's sympathetic/symbolic links that require a metamagic. Material links are available to anyone with Ritual Spellcasting (which frankly is fewer and fewer people these days; in SR3 and previous editions ritual magic and spellcasting were the same skill).

The thing is, there no longer seems to be any use for either kind of linking other than lowering the boom on someone. Astral tracking, for example, no longer exists, or at least I can't seem to find it anymore. Ritual magic no longer allows you to sustain a spell for several hours for free. Detection spells work by granting abilities to their subjects, so you can't use them to spy in targets either. The only use for ritual magic these days, and by extension the Sympathetic Linking metamagic, is remote-control murder, so it seems to me that the practice ought to be far more distrusted and regulated.
Fuchs
"Sure we used ritual magic to drop a fireball on that bunch of runners, but that was just done so we could track them by the smoke that this caused. Honest. We tried to take them alive."
Mr. Unpronounceable
Shaman: I'd like to increase my lodge from rating 5 to rating 6.
GM: OK, 500 nuyen.gif for +1 rating. No problem.

Hermetic: I'd like to increase my library from rating 5 to rating 6.
GM: OK, one hundred billion nuyen.gif ...times 3 because the libraries for spellcasting, spell design, and summoning are seperately maintained, oh, +markup because of the higher availability rating. I guess you can sell your old, worthless, libraries for 30% base cost.


Hmm..you know - I think this was definitely one of SR4's BEST fixes.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Adarael)
Re: nukes not working.

Nowhere, anywhere, in any source book or official material is it even implied that nuclear power does not work like it's supposed to. In fact, there are more nuke plants churning out more power than the in current world by a large amount. The nuclear accidents and failures of shadowrun are easily attributable to a number of outside influences, including:
-Direct magical interference, be it GDs or IEs or spirits or whatever;
-Shadowrun type operations.
-Mirage.
-Conspiracies.

The idea that nuke power doesn't work normally in the 6th world was inferred by AH as an explanation for the oddities surrounding warheads and power plants. It's not official. While I respect AH's dedication to explaining everything and collating massive amounts of SR data, I disagree with him on this point, and I get kind of teeth-gnashy when people imply that It's Just A Fact..

...I had nukes working in my RiS campaign. Had a Toxic Shamanic cult called the "Cleansing Light" which followed the "Way of the Atom". (need a glowing emoticon)
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Mar 14 2008, 08:17 PM) *
...I had nukes working in my RiS campaign. Had a Toxic Shamanic cult called the "Cleansing Light" which followed the "Way of the Atom". (need a glowing emoticon)


are you sure you quoted the right post there? wink.gif
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 14 2008, 12:24 PM) *
are you sure you quoted the right post there? wink.gif

...fixed. don't know what happened. Thought I clicked on the correct [Quote Post] button
Telion
miss hellfire and SR2's magic rules where drain actually meant something.

Grounding.

skill groups have gone through some interesting changes over the generations
SR2 had groups -> subtype --> specialization
SR3 started subtypes and changed the generalizations between them a bit
Herald of Verjigorm
Oh yes, just remembered two more.

SR2: SKill Web! ("how, exactly, did you get from conjuring to interrogation?")
SR3+: group and attribute defaulting

SR2: Anchoring lets you make vast complex semi-permanent magical logic systems based on trigger conditions and what resembles low level gate logic (TN increases for each gate and spell involved)
SR3+: Anchoring lets you pour all your karma into making a trinket to store one spell use, and you have to roll drain when that spell is fired, then reload it by casting the spell into it again (or worse, the single-use ones)
Fuchs
Ally spirits with 3D movement (aka "take this LMG and give us some air cover")
Slymoon
Troll legs have grown.

SR2:
Dwarves and Troll had running modifiers of quicknessx2 all others quicknessx3
(Troll were described as having legs extremely short for their size)

SR3:
Dwarves had running modifiers of quicknessx2 all other including troll quicknessx3
(Trolls now have legs still short for their size, but at least as long as human/ Ork/ Elf)

SR4:
Trolls have a faster walking/running rate than any other race.


Go Go Gadget Legs!

Sandoval Smith
I think where people get confused with nukes is in regard to their most notable uses, they either don't work, or something goes awry, such as the bomb in the Hive in Chicago, or the flight of missiles that all failed to detonate in the 2030s (IIRC).
Stahlseele
and when spider found some nukes and dog-boy and chummers were made to sprinkle them with fairy dust to make them not go boom anymore
hobgoblin
that hive bomb appears to have interacted with the ward or something that was covering the hive.

as for the lone eagle, early dragon, working russian defenses, or something else? who knows.

hell, nukes do not really detonate on impact like a iron bomb does iirc...
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 15 2008, 11:18 AM) *
hell, nukes do not really detonate on impact like a iron bomb does iirc...


Setting off an efficient supercritical reaction is actually pretty hard. You can slam two big pieces of plutonium together and get a reaction but odds are only a fraction of the available mass will actually detonate. Still a whole lot more Boom!/lb than conventional munitions but not all that efficient.

IIRC, warheads consist of a hollow shape wrapped in explosives. Very precisely machined pieces of plutonium are nested in the shape charges. The shape charges fire off in a very specific pattern to impact-weld the plutonium together so that the reaction consumes the majority of the fissile material. It actually reduces the overall radioactivity of the target site, since you don't have atomized plutonium dust scattered over the area.

If one of the shape charges doesn't go off right you'll probably get a bang but at significantly less than full yield. Two or more charges misfire (too early/late/never) and it may not even go critical, although you've now got several kilos of toxic and radioactive plutonium to deal with.

A dragon, or any mage, could have trash the missiles just by throwing up a barrier. A mage'd probably need to be airborne and in a supersonic jet to get a good line of sight, or maybe an auto-tracking telescope.
ICBMs are not penetrators and, as Columbia tragically demonstrated, even a piece of icy foam can trash a re-entry capable object. Then there's powerbolt, indirect elemental combat spells, telekinesis, spirit powers (e.g. Accident) and good old "spirit thwack."
Smed
Spell defense has changed quite a bit. You used to have to allocate dice from your pool for each individual spell cast against you, and the more you used, the less you had for casting your own spells and resisting drain. Now you buy one skill, and it adds dice to resist every spell cast against you and your team each turn. In older editions, you really had to decide how much to allocate for offense and how much for defense each turn, now it doesn't matter.

A common tactic I used to use no longer works: Have one magician on the team cast a spell to get the enemy mage to use up his spell defense, then the second magician casts a spell on the (usually) defenseless enemies. The first magician keeps most of his spell pool for defense, while the second uses most of his for offense. It allowed two weaker magicians to counter one really strong one.
apollo124
Anyone remember Firepower ammo, from way back in the Street Samurai's Catalog, 1st edition? Or getting only the parts you still need for that smartlink(for those who already had an image link, etc...).

Let's not forget the elephant in the room, deckers and riggers.
hobgoblin
heh, only place i encountered firepower ammo was from the back of SR2, where they restated the guns from SR1 sourcebooks. it was basically a statement that it was no longer needed...
Cardul
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 16 2008, 12:47 AM) *
heh, only place i encountered firepower ammo was from the back of SR2, where they restated the guns from SR1 sourcebooks. it was basically a statement that it was no longer needed...


Yeah, when Firepower first came out, it was a new type of ammo. By 3053(the time of SR2), it was the default ammo in everyone's weapons that could use it in the past. Which is why all heavy Pistols were 9M damage(except the Ruger Super Warhawk with its amazing 10M damage code!) Actually, I think that is another major ret con: In 3rd and 2nd Edition, all pistols of the same type were pretty much the same. In 4th, there are SOME advantages and disadvantages to certain pistols to make there be a reason to use something other then The Predator, the Ruger Super Warhawk, or the Roomsweeper(because the default setting was Seattle, you would NOT want to carry around a Thunderbolt...that was just ASKING for trouble! Lone Star had a sixth sense with those things! You walk down the street with your illegally optained one, with no records, in a concealed holster under your long coat..and you had a Lone Star SWAT Team on you as soon as you stepped out of the Barrens!). When any other pistol was pretty much "for style"...it was kind of sad.

Personally, I miss the two grades of Smartlink, too...but that is pretty much a "As technology advanced, the Smartlink II replaced the Smartlink, and became the standard, at around the same chunk of essence."
DreadPirateKitten
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 12 2008, 02:08 PM) *
Well everyone knows people were shorter in the past, so as time moves forward, people get taller, then can run faster. Duh.


5.66 seconds is that far off whats doable today, the thing is, you're doing a calculation starting at top speed, whereas in the actual 100m dash, the first 3.5 seconds involves getting off the blocks and getting into gear.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (mfb @ Mar 12 2008, 02:33 PM) *
in SR3, 9 is the unaugmented human maximum.

11. You forgot good ol' Exceptional Attribute.

I like (and by "like" I mean "despise") several retconnings. One is the introduction of the 2001 World Trade Center collision into the setting (even if it happened, it can pretty safely be assumed to have been forgotten after the 2005 earthquake which leveled every other significant building in the city). Another is the USSR, which first survived into (IIRC) the 2040s, then suddenly collapsed twice, having apparently reformed after the first one (which, granted, Putin is making look not totally unplausible), and then eventually all mention of it existing after 1991 disappears (though there are still references to, IIRC, "Soviet" things, so one can assume that some aspect remained).

As for the Program Carrier, its removal was handled clumsily but at least in an in-game manner (it was pulled from the market for causing neural damage. So what the hell does MBW do, then?). Of course, this has already been covered to death, but I typed it before I read further so you can just ignore this paragraph.

~J
Sir_Psycho
There's many, but the most glaring is the language.

Suddenly some-one decided that those of us playing a sci-fi fantasy (ahem, arcane cyber-punk) in our bedrooms with dice just didn't feel hardcore enough, and needed to use real, fifth world expletives to not feel like little kids. Sure, the same slang doesn't persist for twenty years, so change it, don't revert back to modern anachronistic curses just to be "edgy." Shadowrun is edgy by concept, whether we say "shit" or "drek" or "gloopy glue", I'm still comfortable enough about my masculinity and maturity to use whatever appropriate slang there is.
Particle_Beam
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 16 2008, 02:17 PM) *
I like (and by "like" I mean "despise") several retconnings. One is the introduction of the 2001 World Trade Center collision into the setting (even if it happened, it can pretty safely be assumed to have been forgotten after the 2005 earthquake which leveled every other significant building in the city).
Huh? Where is it mentioned in the Shadowrun timeline that the World Trade Center got collapsed at 2001? There never was an Al Kaida-Attack on New York in the Shadowrun History, and Bush never ever became president there, wasn't it so?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Mar 16 2008, 08:24 AM) *
Sure, the same slang doesn't persist for twenty years

Not to pick on you, just using this quote as a jumping-off point (and others have made portions of this point above):

The same slang does persist for more than twenty years, some of it. We've already covered ancient examples, like the venerable "fuck", but "dude" is over a hundred years old and has had roughly its current meaning for over forty years. This doesn't apply to everything, though; try saying "far out" seriously in a casual context sometime. On the other hand, the Freak Scene is long dead, but say that someone looks like a freak and not only will people know, roughly, what you mean, they won't bat an eye at the term—likewise, though it has been a very long time indeed since Zappa invited the audience to freak out, the English-speaking world (or at least every part of it I'm familiar with) knows exactly what that is. SNAFU and FUBAR are over fifty years old. "Having a cow" is at least fifty years old. Though it's never made entirely clear when "hoop", "frag", "chummer", and so on came into common use with their meanings in Shadowrun, even the most conservative estimate (2049) means that "bling" has already lasted over half as long as these terms have, and "w00t" somewhere around three-quarters their lifespan.

Long story short, arguments based on the short life of slang are very, very weak indeed.

Edit:
QUOTE
Huh? Where is it mentioned in the Shadowrun timeline that the World Trade Center got collapsed at 2001? There never was an Al Kaida-Attack on New York in the Shadowrun History, and Bush never ever became president there, wasn't it so?

I don't believe responsibility or the president during the time is ever mentioned (maybe? I think the camps started after the period, anyway).

The WTC reference may have been German-only. From another thread:
QUOTE (MYST1C @ Mar 11 2005, 07:11 AM) *
I just re-read that part in DidS2 for clarification:

[this portion removed by fucking idiocy on the part of whoever wrote the quote function for Invision's latest work]

Translation: Since the destruction of the World Trade Centers in NY


~J
Link
QUOTE (DreadPirateKitten @ Mar 16 2008, 11:42 AM) *
5.66 seconds is that far off whats doable today, the thing is, you're doing a calculation starting at top speed, whereas in the actual 100m dash, the first 3.5 seconds involves getting off the blocks and getting into gear.
Acceleration is instant for (meta)humans in SR.

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 16 2008, 02:17 PM) *
I like (and by "like" I mean "despise") several retconnings. One is the introduction of the 2001 World Trade Center collision into the setting (even if it happened, it can pretty safely be assumed to have been forgotten after the 2005 earthquake which leveled every other significant building in the city). Another is the USSR, which first survived into (IIRC) the 2040s, then suddenly collapsed [i]twice[i], having apparently reformed after the first one (which, granted, Putin is making look not totally unplausible), and then eventually all mention of it existing after 1991 disappears (though there are still references to, IIRC, "Soviet" things, so one can assume that some aspect remained).

As for the Program Carrier, its removal was handled clumsily but at least in an in-game manner (it was pulled from the market for causing neural damage. So what the hell does MBW do, then?). Of course, this has already been covered to death, but I typed it before I read further so you can just ignore this paragraph.
Bloody oath (or quoted for truth). Where was the WTC incident retcon? I'd not heard that one. Also, where was the neural damage for the programme carrier mentioned? Is it in Denver box set?
Particle_Beam
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 16 2008, 03:18 PM) *
I don't believe responsibility or the president during the time is ever mentioned (maybe? I think the camps started after the period, anyway).

The WTC reference may have been German-only. From another thread:
Aha... German sourcebooks. Nobody cares for them, as they're faulty and add nonsensical stuff all the time. They never counted at all. Must have been the regular garbage that got through editing, so yeah, no WTC-destruction in the official Shadowrun-timeline.
Kagetenshi
I strongly remember having seen it in the English-language stuff as well, but I don't have my copies of the more recent books (SoE and SotA:64 are the two books I'd check first).

~J
FriendoftheDork
QUOTE (mfb @ Mar 12 2008, 06:58 PM) *
running speeds! in SR3 (and probably 1-2), a Qui 1 character would take a minute and a half to run the 100m dash. at 9 Qui and 8 athletics, you could on average beat the current world record by a full two seconds. in SR4, if you allow double sprinting and blow Edge for an extra IP, the world record for the 100m dash by an unaugmented human will be 5.66 seconds, with a top speed of 39mph!


Extra IPs doesen't enable you to run that much faster. At most, you get an extra action or two for sprinting. And with edge, everything is possible wink.gif

str 6+running 6+specialization 2 (100 meter dash)= 14, avg 4 hits thus 8 more meters per combat turn, for a total of 33. So about 9 seconds for the 100 meter dash. If you allow all actions to be spent on sprinting and adding the checks together then 57 meters per turn is possible, which is awesome. But then again, using edge should allow you to do the impossible. Otherwise 13.6 m/s might not be far fetched for a world athelete. Well... uhm ok it's alot too.

Ah, close enough for a game though smile.gif
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