So, here's an oddball thing my buddy and I noticed last night. Tell me if this actually works.

Take a smartlinked gun.
Add an imaging scope
Put a smartlink and image link in the scope.

Presto! You now have a gun that anyone can pickup that provides +2 DP whenever used.

Really?

Is there some inherent flaw with the imaging scope that we're missing?

I do believe that works just fine...just use the scope.

Gun Has Smartgun system accessory. That's allowed.
Gun has Imaging Scope Accessory, that allowed.
Imaging Scope can take any vision enhancements.
Vision Enhancements include Image link and Smart Link. That's allowed.

Neat combo.

Really not any different then having a smartgun and a pair of glasses with image link and smart link.

I have created a rigger/sniper who uses this. Since the only Sniper rifle under the 12 availability comes with an imaging scope, I've been applying the vision modifications to it, rather than myself.

Okay, so it doesn't seem like I'm totally off base here.

The big advantage over glasses is that the thing is entirely self contained in the weapon, just grab it and go. Seems like an excellent option for a sharpshooter character, especially since the Walter sniper rifle comes smartlinked...

only downside i can see, you need to use a simple action to 'take aim' to look down the scope. so its a fair bit less useful than smartlink in your eyes or goggles.

That's pretty significant, actually.

Once you've taken the first Take Aim though, you wouldn't need to perform it again each round would you?

only if you switch your target

Assuming the shooter does nothing other than Take Aim, then no they wouldn't have to do anything else.

If they were to Take Aim then Shoot, however, they would need to take aim again to use the Scope.

One reason why I put the Vision Mag enhancement on the Smartlink of the Walther Sniper Rifle instead of adding a Scope.

I think you also have to take another "take aim" action if your target moves significantly. (ie, runs across the street) Though, as a GM, you might want to soft call that depending on the direction they're running. If they're running straight at the shooter, you probably don't need to take aim again. (Serpentine!! Serpentine!!!)

No because this totally kills the idea of a sniper. You've already got the -3 penalty if the target is running. Following the target will not remove the take aim action. Only action taken on the shooters part. Granted if your target moves out of sight, ie behind cover, you're going to suffer the -6 for Blind shooting, and hope that the person is in the spot you expect them to be.

And that is exactly why a good sniper is considered good.

I can hit what I am shooting at very well, personally. Put the same target on a run and I can hardly keep a scope on the damned target much less well enough to take a shot.

However, I know a person (ret. marine corp sniper) that can *consistantly do exactly that. The man is scare the shit out of you good. And he is in his mid 50's now and has lost much of his ability.

Yes, -3 for running and take aim action.

True Snipers are setting up first shots for anywhere from 5-10 seconds. That's basically 2, maybe 3 combat turns. So let's say Sniper with 1 IP lines up a shot.

Combat Turn 1 - 1st simple Action - Take Aim; Second Simple Action - Take Aim
Combat Turn 2 - 1st Simple Action - Take Aim/Fire; Second Simple Action - Fire/Move(displace)

Now that is Complete mundane Sniper with 1 IP. He's getting a +2-3 to his roll just from aiming. Add in the SM Scope and he's at +4-5. With that, you could trade those bonuses and call a shot (+4/-4 or bypass armor) or just let rip (1-2 extra hits on average). Each additional IP doubles the Aiming Bonuses. Really drives home the 1 hit, 1 kill idea, huh? And yes, the -3 is plenty for a target on the move

one of the martial arts in arsenal can help with that

Yep. With Krav Maga, one of the options is that Take Aim (as well as Ready Weapon as another option) can be reduced to a Free Action.

Woot...more bonuses

Assuming of course it can still also be a simple action. Well, Israeli Sniper here I come

Argh. I keep finding more reasons why I really need Arsenal.

Thanks for the discussion, by the way. Its been enlightening since we're just getting into 4th; haven't even played yet.

You could use the smartlink installed into the scope without Take Aim - "anyone holding the weapon" would be limited to "anyone who can display images". Just install skinlink.

Ryu, you're suggesting something like this:

Weapon with Smartlink, Skinlink
Imaging Scope (Smartlink)
Glasses with Image Link, Skinlink

Correct?

That's it Paws Much easier to just put a Smartlink & Image Link into the glasses, huh?

Indeed.

We were trying to find some way to do it without having have to have that extra piece of (compromisable) gear. Too bad there's absolutely zero reason that the character we're working on would know Krav Maga. Otherwise that would be the perfect solution.

On a side note, it still seems weird that implanted smartlinks in SR4 aren't just plain better than smartgoggles. I mean, I like that change, its just... weird. *shrug* Still trying to detangle 19 years of playing the older editions from my way of thinking, I guess.

-paws

Quick Thought: Would adding smartlink to vehicle sensors give an utopilot the bonus dice?

I've ruled before that it would, since its a more precise targetting computer. Whether it stacks with the Autosoft: Targeting, would be up to GM, but I allow it.

How nice, all the more reason why Autopilots beat Riggers at their own game.

No, I´d put the smartlink into the scope. And I´m not giving out extra gear, as I assume that each professional combatant will have some way to display tactical information anyway, and that most civilians can access visual AR data. Makes skinlink a pretty good investment IMO.

Let me disagree. A smartlink is only the degenerated spawn of a proper sensor suite doing target aquisition. Knowing where the weapon is pointing at is the basic requirement for remote targeting. While metahumans struggle to hit what they can see, the drone will struggle to decide what it wants to hit.

"One shot, one kill" -- sooooo much BS.

Sounds great though.

A buddy of mine (a USMC 8541) killed a guy at 1100 yards with his SR-25 in Fallujah, Iraq.  He fired the round and his spotter watched it go in.  The guy wandered out of the way as it flew, turned, and walked right back into it!  Splat!  Nice torso shot! When he went back for more ammo, the supply guy was like "80 kills, eh?" The response was unprintable.

The point is, there's a lot going on in a battle (even in a SR battle).  Simple things...like the target pacing around as he smokes, can mess up the shot.  Remember, there's a distinct delay between the shot and the hit at even 400 yards.  People running around you can screw up the shot.  Don't forget vibration from explosions...it's bad enough when the guy next to you fires (we try to stagger fire for that reason).  

A smartlink would be cool...but it's not the ultimate scope.  It still won't be able to account for environmental factors like wind.  Even wind is variable within the distance...wind at 100 may be different than at 250.  Throw in shadows, camoflage, lots of local distractions (like...oh...mortars going off...) and it becomes a real cluster in a hurry.

Yeah, it's a game. But, keep your character's expectations realistic...he or she would know these things.

Y'all might want to get some real trigger time.

Done. Granted not in a battle scenario nor killing someone, so if that is your definition, I guess I will just have to live without it.

As for one shot, one kill--I have seen what an exit wound 7.62mm (standard SR round) headshot looks like. That is definately a kill. And no, not a single gaming system will ever illustrate real life combat for a number of reasons. However, my information was accurate for a first shot of a standard military/police sniper per the real life information I was going from (testimonials from snipers and the breathing exercise before a shot illustrated in the Ultimate Sniper). I realize that nothing in any game system I know of stands up to a RL combat situation though (not to mention issues of cold bore firing, windage, etc.), but my illustration above is realistic (as in time lining up a shot) for a sniper. Thus explaining, using the game mechanics, how it would work for the 'one shot, one kill' scenario.

Next time you talk to your buddy, tell him thank you from me for his service to our country.

@Dragos

Incorrect sir about no gaming system modeling wounds correctly.

Phoenix Command system. Caveat the time it takes to roll out one combat increment can take over 15 minutes.

@cREbralFIX
As one who honors Carlos Hathcock, one shot one kill does work. Ask you marine sniper about Carlos and what he has done for modern snipers.

There are RL sniper systems that even factor in the rotation of the earth for long range shots.

WMS

Fair enough, there is no PLAYABLE game system in existance to factor for all the nuances of RL combat

Actually there is one system I think it's called The Greatest Game, or something like that

Playable? I used to play Eastern Front the board game, it took longer than 15 minutes to just figure out where all the 200+ counter/units were and to figure out what attacks to make and at what odds. On average a game took weeks to play.

WMS

At that point is it really a game, or a meditative simulation for obsessive-compulsives?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Hahah!