ah yes, the troll with maxed out strength(16), maxed out stealth-skill with specialisation in sneaking throwing 8 dice with an +8 to be seen due to his ruthenium-polymer-suit and ruthenium coated and dikote'd pole-arm . . *sneak sneak sneak* *WHACK* *splatter* . . only problem was, that i failed to realize just how much splatter would happen . . the GM actually rolled and not even too well using the grenade scatter diagram *g*

Melee also has the advantage of reducing the number of guns firing at you once you're in melee range. Unless your mooks fancy shooting at their own teammates as often as the 'runner. There are ways to close the ground, most of the time, even if it's just scurrying underneath a hail of suppressing fire from your team's heavy weapons or drones, invisibility or smokescreens. And once you're close, as has been said, the mano-a-mano specialist should have the advantage.

Sorry, but I've played too much Shadowrun (and done far too much damage with melee attacks in that time) to get my mind changed that it's somehow gimped, no matter how much trouble someone goes through to post a list.

It's one more tool in the toolbox, just like in real life. Having a gun is no excuse for not knowing how to handle yourself without one.

Quite true. Melee is awesome. However, it is also limited in effectiveness. Sure, you can have awesome damage, but you have a slightly lower DP and very limited range. This is the balance. I see nothing wrong with being able to slice someone in half or knock their head off with one punch. This is Shadowrun, and yeah, It's kinda like that.

...the other drawback is a single melee attack is always a complex action whereas someone with a semi auto can fire two shots off at you per IP. They really needed to keep the old Counterattack rule rather than make it a Manoeuvre under a specific Martial art style (can't remember which one).

yeah, but remember, in SR3, an successfull melee-attack quite often meant not needing another go at that particular target *g*

..True, but this is 4th ed.

...the more I play and GM 4th ed the more I seem miss 3rd & even 2nd at times.

and here i thought this was general dikote your ally spirit madness O.o
seeing as there is nothing like dikote in 4th ed *g*
but yes, i will give you the point about close combat being not so good in SR4 anymore . . in SR3, even a human could punch harder than a heavy pistol would hit . .

...and as in the case of the Short One, not need 3d6 initiative to be a dangerous opponent in melee.

hell, i've yet to play a character with more than 2d6 ini and they still manage to take down most targets, one in reach . .
i bet if i had not forgotten the dikoted pole-arm back then, i could have taken the small feathered serpent in close combat <.<

It's riposte now KK, and don't be sore that Kyoto Kid cannot pull a Crazy 88 scene anymore, or that you have to learn martial arts now.

Has anyone used the old "automatic counterattack" rules in an SR4 game, and if so, how's that gone for them?

I'm not so sure melee is right proper gimped, to be perfectly honest.

Maybe shanking a fool or whatever, but in general?

See, I made a grappler for the DitG game, and when all was said and done, that sucker with 1 IP and built on 300 points I would reasonably consider taking into hth with any normal 400 pt shadowrunner that wasn't a melee specialists, and even then I expect he'd hold his own, considering the enormity of the handicap he was under. I mean, utterly mundane human with no cyber, at 310 points (more exactly) was tossing 12 DP to keep you grappled (meaning no attacks back) and 6stun a round.

Hell, even within the points value I could have made him much nastier, just by going with some cyber and making him an ork, say...

Subdual combat is a freaking unholy equalizer for low IP characters.... you just have to survive to apply it.

...awww, but that is what made her so much fun to play. One little 4'10" human Cuisinart she was.

I kinda miss, but also don't miss dikote. Plus with the whole nanotech surge lately, I figure Dikote will be roughly replaced by "Smart Material" mods, where alignment of smart materials can turn your normal sword into a space marine's power sword or something. Or Hardened armor, like the Crysis nanosuits.