http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/wec.shtml

sweet merciful crap.

88 pounds (40 kilos) is god awfully heavy for a bike. That's the reason I don't like most of the current electric/pedal hybrids. The batteries weigh too damn much.
I live in ptown
http://sprockettes.org/
can't figure out how to make it a hyperlink.
http://www.myspace.com/sprockettes
Also check out CHUNK 666.. do a data search.

and the need for that would be what?

Just take a note of how many specialized designs (low wheel bases, rear facing, bubble canopied, double riders, or extra long) those bikes are. Sure, bikes can reach those speeds. Over 200 meters it said. With a running start. A grade allowed, and a maximum wind amount. I'd say the average bike speed especially in a city is considerably less than that. Meanwhile, the Sandal is probably about as large as a dwarf (judging by the picture and body rating), and can maintain its speed. Not to mention use GPS to avoid getting lost.

Yes, bicycles can be useful. The Revolution monocycle probably beats them for traffic speeds, since it can just roll OVER the traffic.

...I think I'm just going to set my WABAC machine for 2055 - 2060 again. Real decking, Real Rigging, Real Shamans, Credsticks, no wireless hacking, no RFID to worry about, and no fraggin' wireless socks.

It's a wireless extension cord! There doesn't need to be a need for it; it's awesome.

Seriously though, it's beamed power as a consumer electronics item. Even if it's inefficient and dangerous, that doesn't strike you as being really cool?

Check out the buy page, if you buy one now they'll offer you one for free!

and here i thought it was a joke related to the range of the vehicle...

Man Larme, you need to come give us a visit in Portland. I guess you have just never lived in a place with a crazy bike culture, if you had, you would probably understand fool and KK better (anyone else from the Rose City here?).

Aside from the Sprokettes, we have zoo bombers who constantly bomb down Burnside on BMX bikes with absolutely no brakes (one crazy fuck modified his bike so he is like 8ft off the ground). Its quite amusing to see them going the other way when Im driving up the hill. Bike couriers are also another staple of this town. Sure, the economy could probably do without them, but its part of our flare, you know? (Also, it probably is faster and cheaper)

I have always been fascinated by the possibilities of Cyber Samurai and bikes since I first read the sammy on a 10-speed. Assuming the tires/wheels/frame can handle his weight, with the right gear he could destroy a motorcycle on acceleration. I'd personally opt for a fixed gear high ratio bike (like those that set world records), pump up the +Athletics and +Fatigue resistance Bioware, work on strength and body. Not sure how much wired reflexes would affect acceleration, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. Throw some adept powers in the mix and you've got a monster. Also, consider what a possession Air Spirit can do with a low Object resistance bike (can anyone else say E.T.?)

Bikes really do deserve a place in SR, and I hope we can work out some rules for them.

Nooooooo! Skates!

I love the idea of rules for bicycles and other people-powered "vehicles". No love for skateboards? What if you wanted to play some kind of teenage street urchin or collegiate hipster type? Not everyone wants to play a character that only drives muscle cars, eats graphite and poops bullets. A troll could haul on a board and I can imagine all kinds of composite material "smartboards" in 2070.

If Catalyst is going to list rollerblades in Arsenal it's only fair.

or an extreme sports enthusiast?

There are a ton of non-core modes of transport that should exist in SR. Hell, the entire X-Games could use porting over. I'd personally like to see some street luge, skateboards, snowboards, skiing, and surfing (wind surfing too!). Who knows when you might need to run against a Hawaiian underwater arcology? Or cross-country ski through Siberia in winter? I like crazy environments, and crazy means of transport.

...the Short One also has a Sterling Team Cyborg board & DNA X-treme Disaster freestyle bike. Yeah, she's into the X-Sport thing. For now I use her her Gymnastics (for tricks) or running (movement).

...drive a vehicle? I don't think she'd make it past the written test.

think of the uses for canoes and paragliding.

...base jumping from high rise office slabs. They do it in RL, why not on a run?

...oh, and in RL Portland TT - er - OR, is long overdue for being an X-Games venue. Hell, a lot of that stuff was "invented" here.

...love to see them Land Luge down the Barnes/Burnside hill (have to be a local to appreciate this)

Yet another reason for a Rigger 4?

That would be the ultimate rigging challenge, wouldn't it? Remote controlling a non-wired, human-powered transport.

I think some type of Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life and Sprawl Survival Guide mash-up would be a good place for stuff like this. I still have no idea what a semi-ballistic transport in the SR universe looks like other than that goofy "throwback" illustration from NAGRL.

...it's called the Control Thoughts spell.

Oh man, base jumping or paragliding on some sort of ultra-super-high tech stealth glider from the top of one building to the top of a lower building, in order to break in through the roof. Sweet.

...my Rigger Josie did it back in the 2nd ed days to get across the wall into the Cermak zone. Very Escape from NY-ish

Uhh, there are rules for parachuting already.

No Rigger books. I don't want to have to buy a whole new edition of SR
I agree that a sprwal guide/ neoanarchist type book or a SOTA 2071.
There are rules for jumping out of planes. Paragliding is an entirely different animal. Base jumping is closer to parachuting i.e. you pretty much just go down, but paragliding is more like using a hang glider. You stand on a hill side, spread out the "chute", run down hill until it fills up and you catch a thremal so that you actually fly upwards. Using a combination of body positioning and cords to control where you go.
A couple of places that would be almost entirely exclusively bikes would be in Aquacologies (and any dictionary definition arcology.) Where you have everyone living within an enclosed space. The other is th OU. I can't imagin that the orcs would appreciate you running your smelly dirty growler down their combination hallway, main street. Also imagine the noise reverberating back on you, let alone letting everyone for 2 miles know that you were coming.)

Heh, now Mr. fool shows his true colors. He wants specific rules for bicycles and all other human powered vehicles, specific rules for paragliding distinct from the existing parachuting rules...

Simulationist! Burn him!

For arcologies though, I don't think they'd allow anything so chaotic as bikes. Imagine people riding freestanding bicycles in hallways. It's better than motorcycles, but they can still crash. Their transportation would probably be rail-guided and electrically powered -- smooth, safe, quiet, and efficient.

Honestly, segways and horseman would probably be the main transport in arcologies, since the pilots could be set to only drive on the approved areas and the like. While bikes would be much more un-regulated.

As far as paragliding... pilot aircraft.

The rules can (and probably should) still be pretty abstract.

bike mssgers in NYC are 'faster' because they lane split, which is illegle and on sidewalks which is illegal. Both are dangerous now.

open a car door and splat. In NYC i saw one bike mssger who mysteriously hit a building. He claimed that someone kicked his rear wheel but surprisingly, or not, no body saw nothing.

Thats in 1998/2008. imagine the elf bike messenger poing the troll pedestrian? or with the aremors cars and go-gangs on 2070.

Also since Sr was spawned form Seattle, that citie's perenial dampness is a real hinderance to rapid movement by bike

Why do'nt simply use the rules for inline skates from the arsenal page 62 but movement should be double the movement rate of the character.

Actually i don't want different rules for paragliding, I want more rules that encompass it (and other things.) Like I said, the current parachute rules seem to be just for going down, not up.
Seattle, back around the time SR 1 was becoming SR2 hosted the Bike Messenger World Olympics. I live where the climate is the same as Seattle and there are plenty of people riding bikes year round.
The part about lane splitting is exactly what I mean. They are faster. Especially if you have someone hack GG and cause a massive traffic jam. Or just hijack a semi rig and jack knife it.

Speaking as a bicycler I can go just as fast in the rain as when it's clear. But when it's raining there's a bigger risk of going SPLAT! as (sometimes) your breaks fail to grab the rubber tires. I've got the scars and there's a huge indent in a metal railing to prove it. Imagine a troll messenger hitting the pavement and the amount of collateral damage that would cause as his limbs go flailing.

*starts stacking firewood for the simulationist burning*

...[KSAF NewsStream Bottom Line] ...Local News: Ford Americar Totaled in Collision with Bike Courier...Vid at Eleven

Possible sample rules for paragliding: Paragliding uses pilot aircraft as it's primary skill for basic control, but you uses other skills to make do better things, gymnastics, running for example allow you to go faster and do fancy tricks. Paragliding requires significant updrafts and thermals in order to be used properly. These thermals are common in densely packed urban centers, and in mountains (GM is final arbiter of whether or not significant thermal updrafts are present.) Furthermore, this "vehicle" fits into a back pack. Cost is the same as a HALO Chute.
Another muscle powered "vehicle" that would be a good idea for some rules for is horses. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the NAN who use horses as their primary form of transportation.

...yes paragliding would be a specialised skill. For one, you have no rigid frame as a standard Hanglider has. Therefore during extreme manoeuvres the wing can suddenly collapse and turn into a ball of nylon and shroud lines. Second, in order to maintain it's airfoil and rigidity, the wing must remain inflated and therefore must always be moving forward to force air into the cells through the ram intakes. Stalling or making very sharp turns while heading downwind will break this balance and cause part or all the wing to deflate and therefore lose it's airfoil (and lifting potential).

While I have not paraglided myself, I have friends who do and am also an experienced sport kite flier who has flown both framed and "soft" kites including what are known as Power or Traction Kites (heavy pulling kites used for sports like Kite Buggying and Kite Surfing) which share many of the flight characteristics of paragliders. I have also participated in static Man Lifting in which the flier is actually lifted from the ground tethered to a pole anchored in the sand while flying a stack of steerable cellular power kites..

RL Paragliding gear for reference:

Cost of a paraglider wing alone varies between 1800 to over 4000$. Add about another 400 - 500$ for harness, telemetry and safety gear (not including emergency parachute).

Motors run about 5,500 (55 - 60 # thrust) to 7000$ (Tandem twin prop @165+# thrust).

one of the main advantages of bikes, their stealth has been removed from consideration in SR4. I.E. there no longer is a signature rating for various vehicles. While I thought the signature system was a little unrealistic, it seems to me that there is a significant difference in the ability to detect an approaching horseman from a scorpion. This is where a bike has a significant advantage. Often characters will opt for less raw power in exchange for significant increases in stealth.

Hm, Illegal and Dangerous you say? Well, then.

NYC also now has a fair number of bike paths, bike lanes, and greenways.

Mysteries abound, indeed.

This is why messengers and athletes wear lightweight densiplast and reactive liquid armor which affords similar (impact) protection to an armored jacket. But indeed, armored cars and go-gangs make it dangerous for everyone. (I'm sorry, I don't understand "poing" unless it's a sound effect, like biking into a troll and making a comical "Poioioioioing!" noise).

Hardly. Seattle's downtown has lots of bike messengers, bike cops, and regular bike folks. You don't have to play in Seattle, anyway. Denver, where all the SR missions are set, might be a great place to be a bike courier runner -- border crossings are a big part of playing there, and some of those guys could probably have special deals worked out.

...umm, back in Cannon Companion, wasn't there mention that Urban Explorer suits were used by bike messengers/couriers?

'poing' = 'P - O - ing' = Pissing Off.

Why? No other skill utilizes other skills for fancy shit in its use. That just causes a level of complexity that isn't present in the current ruleset.

As far as lane splitting goes... if you really want it there on time, have someone on a revolution go. They roll over other cars, I guarantee you it'll be faster than someone on a bicycle.

Do they really do that? I mean, regularly, in traffic, without being shot?

Because while your typical guy stopped in traffic in a car is going to be annoyed by and/or jealous of a lane-splitting bicyclist, he's going to be pissed off at someone rolling over his car.

Yes, revolutions roll over other cars. But they are not like big nerf toys. They are like motorcycles. Imagine driving a motorcycle over a car. Not pretty, is it? The revolution is better at rolling over stuff, because it's just a big wheel, but it will do heavy damage to most thinks that it runs over, sort of like any motorcycle would.

Right, so they would do that regularly in traffic and not get shot up? I mean, the lane-splitting bicyclist is perhaps annoying and certainly taking a risk, but he's not doing hundreds or thousands in damage to my car. Driving over vehicles is just not something I see someone doing with any regularity unless they're part of a really big, really-well armed gang, like the kind with badges.

Just a note: I see cars being considerably sturdier than cars in modern day due to all violence around. Most vehicles come with some form of armor off the factory.

I think they're mostly less sturdy. Commuter cars are not made with the Barrens in mind. Though there's violence in many places, commuter cars are made for wageslaves, who sort of by definition live under the safety of the corporate or government wing. That isn't to say it's totally safe, but they don't reinforce jackrabbits in case a gunfight breaks out.

Also, cars are a lot more efficient in the 2070s, which means their bodies are probably made out of lightweight polymers rather than just steel or aluminum like modern cars. The "armor" rating of most cars, I think, is not from actual armor, but it just represents the mass and durability of the vehicle.

I can't say that you're totally wrong, at least some cars might be sturdier. But short of an actual security vehicle, I don't think any car could get rolled over by a Revolution without getting its body messed up. I don't think it would make the car take damage, but it would make big ugly dents all across the hood and the roof. Legitimate couriers could not do that and keep their licenses. Though a Revolution would be pretty good for lane-splitting, since it's fast and highly maneuverable and stable, so it could make an unsafe activity a little safer.

I disagree. They do reinforce jackrabbits, thats why they have an armor rating.


That would be their body rating. Armor rating is armor. And obvious at that.


I think that because every Car in the books has an armor rating that is greater than the body of the revolution, it'd be able to roll over most cars without incident in most cases. It might snap an antennae, but beyond that, I don't think it'd put dents in their armor.

i'm gonna have to disagree with you on that.

sure, the revolution may not do significant damage to the car structurally, and the car will still run just fine (most likely), it is going to have a damaged paint job, scratches, probably at least some minor body damage (small dents) and so forth... nothing that will make the car stop working, but still expensive to repair... far more so than a messenger's salary likely can afford on a regular basis.

I'm just curious how you think rubber (the tire) which is being contoured to the shape of the vehicle is going to scratch the paintjob. Considering that even a subcompact has an armor rating of 6, which is enough to stage a basic light pistol shot (1 success) to nothing.

Erm, if the armor protects the paint, that would mean the paint's beneath the armor, where nobody can see it.

In any case, damage or not, most drivers have irrational attachments to their cars, and people are not going to react well to someone driving a vehicle -- even a light one with soft, gentle wheels -- over their frickin' roof.

and i'm just curious how you think a tire, which spends all it's time moving around the ground, doesn't get stuff stuck in the treads (like bits of gravel, for example), or that a car is built to support several hundred pounds on the roof, or that paint jobs on cars are not ridiculously easy to scratch. you put a backpack lying down on top of a car and pull it off, and you can scratch the paint job. you're telling me a motorcycle with a person inside of it isn't going to put so much as a tiny scratch on the paint?

My 2

I think a Revolution is going to do mostly cosmetic damage when it rolls over a car (bust out lights, dent panels, possibly scape some paint off too). I might reflect that in game terms as a couple points, at most, of vehicle damage.

If someone blew out my windshield, dented my hood, roof, and trunk and left a 2 foot wide smart wheel "skunk stripe" down the front of my vehicle I would probably kill them with my mind. Even though my vehicle is still perfectly capable of driving around (and staging light pistol damage) you've just incurred several thousands dollars of cosmetic damage to my glorious ride.

I'd also say that paint jobs in 2070 are probably a bit more resilient, what with all the acid rain and Shadowrunners falling out of the sky following botched 200th story jobs. But I just don't see superficial paneling getting a whole lot more resilent to 500 pounds of vehicle (or troll) screaming over the hood at 60 miles an hour.

That would make for a really entertaining trideo ad for "Super Dent Resisent Panels!" kinda like those ads Lexus ran a couple years ago. Except golf balls and shopping carts have been replaced by trolls in revolutions.