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Larme
Apr 9 2008, 08:58 PM
It seems to me that lots of throwing adepts are based on "look how powerful my throws are!" But with all the uber-dodging that samurai can do, it really doesn't matter how powerful your throws are, if you can't hit... With that in mind, I made this throwing character whose throws are much weaker than your typical twinked out ork adept, but she has enough dice that she's still very deadly. Instead of twinking out Strength (which really is the bitch of all attributes in SR4, except logic), I have pigged out on the more universally useful Agility.

The character's name is Yuan, pronounced Yoo-ahn, after the Chinese currency. She was born dirt poor in a Hong Kong slum, and the most treasured of her few possessions was a souvenir version of an old style Chinese coin, the kind with the square hole in it. To her, the coin represented money, and money represented the cure for everything that was wrong with her crappy life. She tried to make her fortune starting at a young age by acting as a package runner for some really small-time chip dealers, which she did ok at. But she had little success when she tried to strike out on her own as a dealer herself, she just didn't have the social aptitude for it. She Awakened at around 14 when some rival dealers had cornered her and were about to engage in a 'buyout' of her operations, the kind that involves a lead pipe. All she had was her precious coin squeezed in her hand for good luck, when without thinking about it, she threw it through the leader's skull, scattering the rest of the group. As her magical abilities and throwing skills improved, business picked up, even though business took a sharp turn in the murder for hire direction. Eventually, she was doing well enough to afford bioware to further enhance herself, and then to get out of Hong Kong and hit the cash-lined streets of Seattle.

Yuan has short, spiked green hair with red tips, the colors of blood and (at least traditionally in UCAS) money. She is obsessed with symbols of cash. She wears gold shades, and a gray Actioneer suit with all of the buttons replaced with souvenir Chinese coins. Her talisman is a bracelet of souvenir coins that reminds her of her origins, and the primacy of currency. Though she has trained primarily with knives, Yuan always has dozens of souvenir coins on her person. She can usually be seen idly doing sleight of hand tricks with them, but she doesn't hesitate to hurl them to impress people or to kill anyone who's not worth wasting a 20 yen knife on.

[ Spoiler ]
Larme
Apr 10 2008, 11:40 AM
43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? frown.gif
Cthulhudreams
Apr 10 2008, 11:51 AM
Buying leg casings from the 'leg and arm casings' - gets you an extra +0/+1 for 8/7 encumberance.

If you just got an FFBA helmet and put that on during the action that gets you 8/8 for a real armour of ?/9 which is sweet, but does require cocking about, so option A might be better.
ArkonC
Apr 10 2008, 12:00 PM
Optimized Agility is genetic optimization, I assume, so it only costs 0.2E...
Other than that it looks good...
Maybe you could fill up the remaining .4E with reflex recorders and/or cybereyes, free up some PP for some of the cooler powers...
Or maybe get some skillwires for easy diversification...
Malicant
Apr 10 2008, 12:29 PM
QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 01:40 PM) *
43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? frown.gif

It sucks. Happy now? biggrin.gif

But now some serious comments.
Genetic optimisation costs .2 Essence, not .4. Keep the free space to upgrade Muscle Toner later in game.
I not sure why you chose Improved Ability (Gymnastics), I'd replace it with Combat Sense. And Improved Sense (Eyelight) might actually be something that connot be done with that power. Since Eyelights is not a sense at all.
Buy yourself some armor to wear with FFBA, like the PPP stuff and some Armored Clothing.

That's kind of it for a quick glance. wink.gif
Ryu
Apr 10 2008, 01:17 PM
Body 4, Strength 4... Power Throw ensures sufficient range... take Body 5, Strength 3.

I would go with Agility 5(7), without the genetic optimisation. That die is expensive. I agree that your choosen path is the best way of having base agility 6, as long as the ressource allowance is high enough.

On the same note, consider starting with Improved Thrown Weapons 1 and Magic 5. Remaining base Thrown Weapons pool if doing both is 14, more with knives. Not bad at all. 17 won´t hit the full-defense samurai either, and if it does, you need the typical munched damage to punch through armor. That single magic point can be bought for 12 karma ingame (it then being the fourth point of magic), but costs you 25 BP now.

Improved Senses should be passive, Eyelights are IMO out.
Daier Mune
Apr 10 2008, 03:03 PM
Something I had been thinking about for a while now is a throwing adept who uses a lightweight spear along with a few knives. would give him a little bit more utility than just a thrower.
Larme
Apr 10 2008, 05:01 PM
Yay, wonderful commentses love.gif

I'm pretty sure genetic optimization's essence is a typo, thanks for catching it.

Combat sense is a good idea. It only gives one die instead of 2, but it applies to more than just full defense.

I do have armor to go with the FFBA, it's the Actioneer suit.

Leg and arm casings would put me into encumbrance. Actioneer has armor 5, plus have of the FFBA, for a ballistic armor 8. If I add anything with more ballistic armor, I become uncumbered. I could get better impact armor from a helmet with shin guards instead of shin guards and forearm guards, but I don't want to wear a helmet, so I'm sticking with a point lower impact armor.

@Ryu -- good ideas on shifting body and strength, especially since I could drop in a point of muscle aug to compensate. Though I do want to keep agility 6. It's an expensive die, but it's really not that bad.

On eye lights, the power says anything that can be done with cyber, excluding stuff like ultrasound or radio. Since eye lights are light, not some special technological force, I think they would fit. If not though I can just strap a lowlight flashlight to my shoulder wink.gif
Malicant
Apr 10 2008, 06:42 PM
QUOTE
Any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power.

Eyelight is not a sense, not even in the broadest definition wink.gif

QUOTE ( @ Apr 10 2008, 07:01 PM) *
I do have armor to go with the FFBA, it's the Actioneer suit.

I was thinking about armor that does not make you look like you on a business trip while breaking and entering, or even walking down a street.
Get some armored clothing plus PPP plus medium FFBA and you have armor 10/7 (I think) and no encumbrance. Or get Body up to 5 (Strenght down to 3) and you can wear the big FFBA with armored clothing and PPP, giving you 12/8 armor and no encumbrance.
Larme
Apr 10 2008, 08:11 PM
I was planning to dress the suit up considerably and make it look more ganger style. But part of that consideration was that the actioneer had the exact amount of armor I wanted wink.gif I'm definitely open to rethinking her image and her clothes if I end up raising her body to wear more armor.

As for improved sense, I thought it could reproduce any vision enhancement that cyberware could do... Am I missing something? question.gif
Malicant
Apr 10 2008, 08:49 PM
It pretty much says sense, not enhancement, so I guess Eyelights are out.
Mr. Unpronounceable
Apr 10 2008, 09:03 PM
Well, the thing is, it's not so much a vision enhancement as an eye modification...should "improved senses" allow the protective cover, as well?

edit: scooped.
nathanross
Apr 10 2008, 09:03 PM
QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 07:40 AM) *
43 views and no comments? Not even a flame? frown.gif

Wow, can anyone else say min-maxed? This thing reeks of Vanilla. This is one of my problems with Orks in the new rules, they are just free BP. You get Body 4 and Strength 3 for free, so you get a Bod 4, Str 4 for only 30BP, instant savings of 30BP, and total savings of 25BP (after the human looking edge). Just play a human for Christ's sake. And Logic 1? Really? We have a Logic 1 player in our group and when correctly roleplayed, is completely fucking useless out of combat. It smells of dump-stat completely. Also, Charisma 2 Ork, really original.

Also, Synaptic 2 on an Adept? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! And when did adept powers put flashlights in your eye? I assume that is what you are talking about with "Improved Sense (Eyelights)". I hope that is enough of a flame for you. wink.gif
Adarael
Apr 10 2008, 09:11 PM
So you're saying you hate the character because you don't like the rules on Orks in 4th edition?
That's bogus, man.
(For the record, I also agree that he is vanilla, but that's because I have no clear picture of his history, lifestyle, or outlook based on skills.)

1) Free BP for making an ork? Well, that's the way the rules are set up. Change the rules in your own game, sure, but don't get down on a guy for making an ork. I do admit, though, that the 'human looking' is silly. I just hate the human looking advantage in general, though. If I can reliably tell the difference between eastern and western chinese ancestry (I can, apparently) no 5 point merit should ever fool me into thinking an ork is a regular human.
2) Charisma 2 for an ork should be about average. Why the hell should he pay for high charisma if there's no reason to? Stat level is fine here.
3) Logic 1... Okay, I admit, I was on board with this when I first saw the character, but you know what? I've re-thought it, and it could be awesome and amazing. Supposing the PC was a total street warrior, didn't go to school, etc, then this is totally fine. He has intuition 4, and all of his knowledge skills are Int-linked. This is a guy who SHOULD have a tiny logic. He's got nothing to use the stat on. Frankly, there probably hasn't been much for him to practice being logical AT.
And I like the idea of the adept street warrior who's so zen he reacts purely by instinct and consequently has a totally shit logic score.
MarCazm
Apr 10 2008, 09:26 PM
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 10 2008, 11:03 PM) *
Also, Synaptic 2 on an Adept? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! And when did adept powers put flashlights in your eye?


So you would spent 3 magic points for getting improved reflexes instead of losing just 1 point of magic for the same result?

You gotta be kiddin'
DTFarstar
Apr 10 2008, 09:34 PM
On the eyelights thing, I'm pretty sure you can't do it, but beyond that I've always thought that was silly. Nothing says shoot me in the eye like them being the only light source in a battle.

Chris
nathanross
Apr 10 2008, 09:49 PM
@ Adarael and MarCazm, I am being extreme! He asked for flames and I gave them, I hoped the " wink.gif " would be enough note this, but I guess not. Still though, Orks really do lack the ugly in SR4, and yes, 5BP means he looks like a human (no tusks).

And as for bioware adepts, I find them boring. I have houseruled Increase Reflexes power at 1pp/level, but even with RAW costs, I would never put Synaptic in an adept. I see no reason to do so other than BP efficiency, and unfortunately that is all I see in this character. I do like the Gaes though; one of my favorite flaws.
Stalker-x
Apr 10 2008, 09:56 PM
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Apr 10 2008, 05:34 PM) *
Nothing says shoot me in the eye like them being the only light source in a battle.


Nope.

QUOTE (Arsenal @ p. 38)
The tight beam and polarization minimize the beam's scatter, so the light can’t be seen unless the user is staring directly at another person or this person is able to see the small spot illuminated by the eye light system.


I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know nyahnyah.gif). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one wink.gif).
Adarael
Apr 10 2008, 10:09 PM
QUOTE (nathanross @ Apr 10 2008, 01:49 PM) *
@ Adarael and MarCazm, I am being extreme! He asked for flames and I gave them, I hoped the " wink.gif " would be enough note this, but I guess not. Still though, Orks really do lack the ugly in SR4, and yes, 5BP means he looks like a human (no tusks).

And as for bioware adepts, I find them boring. I have houseruled Increase Reflexes power at 1pp/level, but even with RAW costs, I would never put Synaptic in an adept. I see no reason to do so other than BP efficiency, and unfortunately that is all I see in this character. I do like the Gaes though; one of my favorite flaws.


Sorry. I am tired today, so I am missing otherwise apparent cleverness. My bad, not yours.
Larme
Apr 10 2008, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (Stalker-x @ Apr 10 2008, 05:56 PM) *
Nope.



I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know nyahnyah.gif). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one wink.gif).


They're Restricted, so you need a license to carry them. Though obviously there isn't a harsh penalty for having them without a license wink.gif

QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 10 2008, 05:11 PM) *
And I like the idea of the adept street warrior who's so zen he reacts purely by instinct and consequently has a totally shit logic score.


smokin.gif
WearzManySkins
Apr 10 2008, 10:38 PM
your Metalink is a paper weight with any OS software. Even with an OS software no programs again a paper weight.

Eye Lights is out.

Save some build points in Throwing, by taking it down to a 5 skill. That 6 is very expensive.

Again I agree about the magic rating of 6, it is very BP expensive just to have it lowered by bioware.

Suggestion for some contacts Tongs. If you can get it read Shadows of Asia.

No Martial Arts Positive Qualities? This character really needs some of them.

WMS
DTFarstar
Apr 10 2008, 10:46 PM
The thing is, Stalker-x, You are right, that it isn't like a flashlight coming from your eye, but you are going to be looking directly at whoever you are fighting or you aren't going to be attacking them very well. So while I was being flippant, it still applies just to whoever you are fighting at that given time.

Chris
b1ffov3rfl0w
Apr 10 2008, 11:05 PM
QUOTE (Stalker-x @ Apr 10 2008, 04:56 PM) *
I am just now wondering about something different: Why purchase a Fake Licence for knives? I can understand that you do want a licence for handguns - it's hard to explain why you're in possession of an unregistered firearm. Knives, however, do not require registration (as far as I know nyahnyah.gif). They're easy to hide, even easier to purchase, and it shouldn't be illegal to carry them with you (and let's hope the cop does not know how to distinguish a throwing knife from an ordinary one wink.gif).


It shouldn't be, maybe, but it is in a lot of places. Carrying a "concealed" knife is illegal in some places, while carrying a knife unconcealed might be considered brandishing the knife, particularly if you look threatening or out of place (as in "yew look outa place, boah"). Knives that are too small may be considered "concealed", whereas knives that are too large are swords. Owning a knife is usually not a legal issue, just carrying one. I am not a lawyer.

As for throwing versus ordinary knives, it's unlikely that the policeman will be a connoisseur of the impaling arts, but they may be equipped with visual databases of prohibited items in addition to their police training.

Cthulhudreams
Apr 10 2008, 11:49 PM
QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 10 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Leg and arm casings would put me into encumbrance. Actioneer has armor 5, plus have of the FFBA, for a ballistic armor 8. If I add anything with more ballistic armor, I become uncumbered. I could get better impact armor from a helmet with shin guards instead of shin guards and forearm guards, but I don't want to wear a helmet, so I'm sticking with a point lower impact armor.


You need to go back and actually read leg and arm casings. If you buy the set, but elect to only use the leg OR arm casings, you specifically only get +0/+1 (no ballistic!) which for you is a free bonus point of impact armour.




Ophis
Apr 11 2008, 12:34 AM
It looks okay apart from one thing, I hate the idea of a street raised athlete having the minimum body for her race. It's basically enough of a disconnect for me to turn down the character as a ref. I could live with average, but minimum seems unrealistic, this charcter will have exercised during her life and so will have developed a good physique, which should be represented by at least average Body and Strength to me. Then again I remove racial mods from the equation for increasing a stat with karma so an ork getting 8 strength has had to do as much work (with heavier weights I'll concede) as a human has getting 6 Strength.
Larme
Apr 11 2008, 12:41 AM
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Apr 10 2008, 05:38 PM) *
your Metalink is a paper weight with any OS software. Even with an OS software no programs again a paper weight.


Hehe, good catch! Forgot to get that stuff.

I mean... I knew that! It's just a decoy commlink that I'll use to assassinate people where weapons aren't allowed >.>

QUOTE
Eye Lights is out.


Yeah, you guys are prolly right... I haven't reviewed the text again, but I wasn't that sure about it in the first place.

QUOTE
Save some build points in Throwing, by taking it down to a 5 skill. That 6 is very expensive.

Again I agree about the magic rating of 6, it is very BP expensive just to have it lowered by bioware.


On the Throwing, I actually forgot to charge double for the last point, even, so yeah frown.gif

QUOTE
No Martial Arts Positive Qualities? This character really needs some of them.


Meh. Martial arts weren't necessary before, and they're not necessary now. They don't become necessary just by existing. They improve your character, but if you can't afford em, you can't afford em!

Though with some of the efficiency ideas people have proposed, I might be able to smile.gif



QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Apr 10 2008, 06:49 PM) *
You need to go back and actually read leg and arm casings. If you buy the set, but elect to only use the leg OR arm casings, you specifically only get +0/+1 (no ballistic!) which for you is a free bonus point of impact armour.


I think you're getting confused wobble.gif "Leg and Arm Casings" is one piece of armor. It covers the upper arms and upper legs, and has a rating of +1/+1. But you can choose to wear just the leg or just the arm, and it becomes +0/1. "Shin Guards" and "Forearm Guards" are both separate from leg and arm casings. They cover the lower leg and the forearm respectively.

No wait, I'm the one that's confused. silly.gif You're right! Thanks!
Cthulhudreams
Apr 11 2008, 01:26 AM
Yeah it's a brilliant hack. Annoying the !$#@%@%#$@ thing doesn't work the other way so this great character concept I had wearing a bunker suit pretty much sucks.
Glyph
Apr 11 2008, 02:05 AM
I agree that you could save a lot of points by lowering Quickness to 5 and losing that last point of Magic, but you do NOT pay double for raising a skill from 5 to 6. You only pay double build points if you have the Aptitude quality, and raise it to 7. So your throwing skill of 6 is fine.

Martial arts would be a good investment for your character. Unlike a punching specialist, you don't really need that much of it. But 5 points in Pentjak Silat , and 4 points to buy two maneuvers, could get you +1 DV using edged weapons in melee, two-weapon style (essentially +4 to defense if you use two knives), and iaijutsu (why waste 0.5 power points when you can get quick-drawing as a maneuver?). That's not bad for 9 build points.
Fortune
Apr 11 2008, 02:19 AM
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 11 2008, 12:05 PM) *
... but you do NOT pay double for raising a skill from 5 to 6. You only pay double build points if you have the Aptitude quality, and raise it to 7. So your throwing skill of 6 is fine.


I was just going to say that.
nathanross
Apr 11 2008, 08:32 AM
QUOTE (Ophis @ Apr 10 2008, 08:34 PM) *
It looks okay apart from one thing, I hate the idea of a street raised athlete having the minimum body for her race. It's basically enough of a disconnect for me to turn down the character as a ref. I could live with average, but minimum seems unrealistic, this charcter will have exercised during her life and so will have developed a good physique, which should be represented by at least average Body and Strength to me. Then again I remove racial mods from the equation for increasing a stat with karma so an ork getting 8 strength has had to do as much work (with heavier weights I'll concede) as a human has getting 6 Strength.

Thank you Ophis for saying what I could not hit as well. The issue with the Bod 4/Str 4 is not only LOW for the race, it is LOW for the concept. Which makes me wonder whether it was done for the concept or for BP efficiency. I'm guessing it was done towards the later. In other words, the character is inept in Body and Logic (relatively) and low-average in Strength and Charisma. I usually like good background for dumpstats, especially when the ones closest to it (Log-Intuition) are so different. What circumstances prevented them from even the most basic Logic, but allowed them such an exceptional intuition. And why is this Ork who has been living a rough life have such a low Bod and Str? Shouldn't they have been relying on these stats the most in terms of background?
ElFenrir
Apr 11 2008, 09:02 AM
I have to disagree on the Body/Strength thing.

Ok, ive been a bit torn on this concept, to be totally honest, for a long time. Ive gone back and forth on it-ive seen some instances where it just doesn't look like it makes sense, and some where it does. I think ive finally found a good stance, though. For awhile i was really anti-severe statdump because of the rash of what i thought were idiotic, Natural Agility 8, Body 5, Reaction 4 Strength 1(3, of course with Muscle Augmentation) Samurai who had 5's and 4's in every physical skill. It was SUCH a blatant abuse/twink, IMO(and i, being extremely lean, who will accept 95% of character concepts, say that VERY RARELY), that I really began to baste anyone who did this because there was just such an explosion of it. I mean, they couldn't give up ONE DIE of their 25 Pistols dice to have an 'average joe' natural strength of 2?

On the other hand, though, it depends how you look at it. Is an Ork with a Body of 4 and a Strength of 3 weak? Or not too shabby? If 2 is the 'Average Joe Human' stat nowadays, and a 3 is the ''Still Joe Human but the stat that he pays more attention to'', and 4 is ''damn, this is a good stat you have, Human'', an Ork with a 4 and a 3 is still well above the typical human-he's just a little below the 'joe average' Ork. (who im guessing would be Body 5, Strength 4, if going by the 2 rating of humans.)

A Charisma 3 Elf is still Charisma 3. He's still as charasmatic as the human who probably does PR for his everyday job(3 being the 'professional' rating, assuming). Compared to other elves he might be 'guttertrash' but to the rest of the world he's pretty damned good. The 'Joe Average' elf has charisma 4, again looking at it using the 2 as the 'Joe Stat'. This means Joe Elf is like, a friggin rock star.

All that being said, is it really wrong for a healthy Ork to have Body 4 and Strength 3? This throwing adept concept was said to be much more Agility than Strength based. Perhaps the character just never bothered with regular strength. You can look at it as with an ork or troll, it's pretty EASY to worry about other stats when you are guarenteed at least some kind of decency.

When Jimmy the Troll, who is actually pretty smart for his age decides he likes computers and just never works out physically; he can still armwrestle all of his friends-and he doesn't even have to try. Even his human friend Johnny on the wrestling team(Strength 4, he's a beefy teen lets say nyahnyah.gif), can get beaten in armwrestling by the nerdy Jimmy, because Jimmy has a natural strength of 5. Now, Jimmy's also kind of slow so he starts to run a bit and try to build up manual dexterity. He never worries about strength training though-he just doesn't care about it because he feels that being able to lift 75kg off the ground without a test is just fine. I can see an ork that's concentrated on throwing like this. Maybe she worried more about quickness, subtlety and aim than strength; having an average ork level isn't bad at all. As for body, perhaps they are just light and small for their race. A light, small ork is still like a really damn tough human.

Johnny the Wrestler in school, though, being a human on the 1-6 scale, he's gotta work out to get that 4. Hell, he's gotta work out a bit to get his 3 first. Now there's Jeff the Ork. Jeff also is more nerdy; but he starts with a 4 and a 3. He's smaller than his other ork buddies who work out and do sports; but compared to humans, he's actually a pretty tough cookie.

I guess it depends how you look at the stats. Are metahumans with minimal physical stats sickly? Or do they simply look at it like 'we really don't need to worry about these, we can pay attention to other things'. I sorta take it the second way, these days. I think this ork's physical stats are actually good for what she does; someone that pays more attention to speed over brute force.
Larme
Apr 11 2008, 02:38 PM
It's irrelevant whether something is minimum or not. Minimum is pure metagame. It has little to do with reality. Nor does "growing up on the streets" atuomatically give you particular stats. Thanks to that miracle of genetics, some people are naturally stronger or tougher, and others are naturally weaker. And some people with a hard life spend a lot of time running around and getting more fit, while others would rather practice throwing coins than work out. If I saw this kind of GM interventionism in a campaign, telling me to make minor adjustments to my attributes to fit the GM's concept of how my character ought to look, I'd think twice about entering the game. It's my character, I decide how she grew up. If there's an inconsistency between her very rough background and her sheet, I can alter one or the other; I don't automatically have to change the sheet to suit the background, because neither is set in stone yet. The complaints with low body seem to be twofold: doesn't fit the background, and is twinky. For the first one, as I've said, I think that's wrong. She is easily as tough as she needs to be to survive. As an ork, she could get tougher, but she just didn't need to, so she didn't. And for the second one, I really don't care if someone thinks the sheet looks twinky. I think the sheet is efficient. It starts with a concept and builds that concept into a functional character. This is a far cry from the most powerful character I ever made, so who gives a damn whether her body is at the exact right score to suit someone else's personal preference?

Thanks for all the tips everyone, I may post an updated version a little later. smile.gif
Larme
Apr 11 2008, 07:02 PM
Alrighty, here's a tweaked version cyber.gif

I raised body, dropped genetic optimization, lowered agility, added synthacardium, some martial arts, and got cyber eyelights to go with my ork lowlight vision. Though I have sensitive system, the halving of cyber essence is negated by cyber being my lower category of ware smile.gif

[ Spoiler ]
ornot
Apr 12 2008, 12:21 AM
QUOTE (b1ffov3rfl0w @ Apr 10 2008, 06:05 PM) *
It shouldn't be, maybe, but it is in a lot of places. Carrying a "concealed" knife is illegal in some places, while carrying a knife unconcealed might be considered brandishing the knife, particularly if you look threatening or out of place (as in "yew look outa place, boah"). Knives that are too small may be considered "concealed", whereas knives that are too large are swords. Owning a knife is usually not a legal issue, just carrying one. I am not a lawyer.

As for throwing versus ordinary knives, it's unlikely that the policeman will be a connoisseur of the impaling arts, but they may be equipped with visual databases of prohibited items in addition to their police training.


I'd guess the legality of knives varies. In the UK now it is illegal to carry knives without a legitimate reason, for example, a chef is entitled to carry a roll of knives to their place of work. I'm not sure how a permit would work though...
WearzManySkins
Apr 12 2008, 01:07 AM
Augmentation page 38
QUOTE
Eye Light System: The eye light system consists of tiny but
high-powered low-heat lights in the character’s cybereyes that channel
a tight, polarized beam outward along a path parallel to the
optical center of the eyes. An eye light system illuminates a small area
the character is looking at with a dim light (enough to illuminate
about half a page of paper or to work within an electronic device or a
control box). It also enables a character with low-light vision to see up
to a distance of 25 meters even in total darkness. The tight beam and
polarization minimize the beam’s scatter, so the light can’t be seen
unless the user is staring directly at another person or this person is
able to see the small spot illuminated by the eye light system.

This appears to say that a eye light system is only for cybereyes.

Also from the text the light beam is no where near blinding.

Also the essence cost is 0.1 not 0.14.

You have not upgraded the firewall on your comm link?

WMS
Glyph
Apr 12 2008, 01:50 AM
If it wasn't available as a modification to natural eyes, it wouldn't have an Essence cost (since mods take up capacity, rather than Essence, in cybereyes). Compare the eye light entry to that of the eye laser system, which is only available for cybereyes. Don't know where the 0.14 Essence is coming from, though. I'm assuming it's a typo.
WearzManySkins
Apr 12 2008, 02:18 AM
QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 11 2008, 08:50 PM) *
If it wasn't available as a modification to natural eyes, it wouldn't have an Essence cost (since mods take up capacity, rather than Essence, in cybereyes). Compare the eye light entry to that of the eye laser system, which is only available for cybereyes. Don't know where the 0.14 Essence is coming from, though. I'm assuming it's a typo.

With the many and wide spread issues with typos in Augmentation, you may be correct or both of us wrong. grinbig.gif

IIRC the original intent of the lights was to used blind/cause glare in ones opponents eyes.

It would still be cheaper to use a flashlight than eye lights.

WMS
Larme
Apr 12 2008, 02:51 AM
It costs .14 essence because: I have sensitive system, doubling the cost to 0.2. They're alphaware, which makes it .2 * .8 = .16. It says .14 because I inputted a .7 multiplier for alphaware instead of .8 embarrassed.gif But halving the essence from my cyber essence being lower, it ends up having a .08 impact on my essence instead of .07, so my correct essence total is 4.02

@Wearz: I think if it has an essence, it can go into natural eyes. Every other eyemod can go into natural eyes, why not this one? The description does mention cybereyes, but it never says cybereyes only like it does for the eye laser system. I think it's much more likely that the word "cybereyes" in the description of eyelights is a mistake (or just imprecise language) than is the essence cost, especially because the essence cost is repeated both in the original table and in the table at the back of the book. I think you could go your way, but it feels like nerf-batting to me. I don't like seizing on technicalities in the language to stop players from doing simple, non-broken things. That sort of thing isn't my bag.

Though I have no idea what you're talking about with the original intent of the eyes being to blind people. You must be thinking of the flash system from SR3, which was basically a flash pak in your eyes. But SR3 also had eye lights that work exactly the same as they do in SR4. There is no hint of the intent you describe. In fact, the intent seems to affirmatively go against what you're saying. It specifies that the light is dim. Dim light that only illuminates directly what you're looking at isn't going to blind anyone. The intent of eye lights is that it's like a lowlight flashlight in your eyes.
Glyph
Apr 12 2008, 07:08 AM
In Man & Machine (SR3), you could take the brightlight feature (with optional superflash bulbs) as an accessory to the eye light system, but the eye light system itself was about the same as it is now in SR4.

Eye lights can go into natural eyes. Eye mods can go into natural eyes by canon, and the sole exception to this, the eye laser system, explicitly states that it can only go into cybereyes.
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