Dumpshock Forums > Magic Guns

DocTaotsu

Apr 12 2008, 03:07 AM

QUOTE (b1ffov3rfl0w @ Apr 11 2008, 09:57 PM)

How about magic guns? Can we have a thread on magic guns?

Here we are! Magic guns!
@set Thread=Goofy Fun

Now are we talking about guns that shoot magic or guns that are enhanced by magic?

I have this weapon in mind for my "Goofy Ultra High Magic Non-Cannon 500 bp Build" game. Using and abusing the rules of weapon attunement and weapon foci you create a firearm infused with orichalium and magical energies. Extra dice for tests, the ability to cast spells like "gyroscope" and "magical smartlink" to negate variou modifiers and so on.

Hell, lets give it special magical bullets so you can shoot people in astral space. When you fire on the astral plane it actually sucks away bits of your essence that regenerate over time. Blood magic rifle to the rescue!

Ancient History

Apr 12 2008, 03:14 AM

I like guns that are enchanted so I can pistol-whip you to death with them.

Or bayonets. I'm cool with bayonetting. Rifle-as-club works. Pistols with knuckle-dusters. True Vessels with free spirits that use the Wealth power to create silver bullets.

DocTaotsu

Apr 12 2008, 03:15 AM

"Wow you have an M22A4 weapon foci? Does that... work?"
"Yeah, but only for butt stroking and bayonetting."

Chrome Tiger

Apr 12 2008, 05:38 AM

QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Apr 11 2008, 10:15 PM)

"Wow you have an M22A4 weapon foci? Does that... work?"
"Yeah, but only for butt stroking and bayonetting."

This sounds so SO incredibly wrong... Not that there's anything wrong with that.

WeaverMount

Apr 12 2008, 06:00 AM

Thematically, I always really liked enchanted ammo fired from breach loaders. I described my idea in huge detail to a friend. He said oh like Outlaw Star. I said not at all. After bit of YouTube I said well slightly larger guns, slightly smaller rounds.

Daier Mune

Apr 12 2008, 06:48 AM

i sometimes like to ask complicated questions to the resident magic expert in order to give him headaches. this is one that he couldn't answer:

If i was a possession tradition mage, and had a spirit possess a bullet, then i packed the bullet into it's casing and then fired it out of a gun, would it count as a sort of weapon focus?

Glyph

Apr 12 2008, 07:33 AM

Why would it? Simply being dual-natured wouldn't be enough. Under Astral Combat on pg. 184 (main book) it says "Astrally perceiving or dual natured characters use their Physical attributes and skills to fight opponents with a physical body, and their Willpower + Astral combat to fight wholly astral entities." So against a materialized spirit, it would be a normal physical attack, and against an astral spirit, it would be as ineffective as ranged attacks typically are in astral space.

Using this tactic would also make every spirit start spending Edge to resist summoning tests - remember that spirits somehow "know" when a conjurer has been abusing spirits.

SIN

Apr 12 2008, 08:21 AM

On a similar note, the shaman in our game is an archer. After a quick read of the enchanting rules, I think it's possible to enchant arrows to let off spells when a prearranged condition (e.g. touching someone other than him - would that work?) is met. Essentially, he could have spell arrows (though they'd be expensive and more hassle than just casting a spell). Am I completely misreading this? Also, if I'm not, could these arrows be used on the astral if he had a weapon focus bow?

Apologies if these are silly obvious questions.

SIN

Glyph

Apr 12 2008, 08:49 AM

Anchoring costs Karma, so it's not something he would want to do regularly, but yes, you could anchor spells to arrows. There are no weapon foci bows, though, and even if there were, an arrow would be too slow against purely astral targets.

KCKitsune

Apr 12 2008, 09:29 AM

What is the problem with enchanting a gun to be more accurate? the spell would be on the weapon and not the ammo it would be firing.

Chrysalis

Apr 12 2008, 09:42 AM

I want a cross that transforms into a dikoted orichalcum possessed spirit shooting machinegun!

WeaverMount

Apr 12 2008, 10:38 AM

Actually possessing bullets does two things. First it would have a DV of F/2 as per SM 87. I'm not exactly sure if this DV stacks or overlaps or replaces an existed DV on either the physical or astral. This would be extra usefull for cutting Imunnity to Natural Weapons, and explicitly let's you shoot things on the astral.

Second if you could get a spirit with Engery Aura it would get extra nasty. Energy Aura let's you add +4 to a melee attack. I know this isn't exactly RAW, but I'd allow it because the spirit is in physical contact with the target. Now here is where it get's nasty. If you don't recall the spirit to possess the next round in your chamber & the bullet lodges in the victim's body they are basiclly dead, if you don't fallow the strickest RAW. If someone makes a melee attack on a spirit with EA they take damage with DV=Force. I know that if you lodge a bullet in someone that they aren't going to melee their own bullet hole. But if punching something with EA is enough to I would think that having it lodge in you would hurt at least as much.

I know this is a really loose rules interpretation of EA, but it should do something. And anything is grizzly

Chrome Tiger

Apr 12 2008, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (Glyph @ Apr 12 2008, 04:49 AM)

Anchoring costs Karma, so it's not something he would want to do regularly, but yes, you could anchor spells to arrows. There are no weapon foci bows, though, and even if there were, an arrow would be too slow against purely astral targets.

...And anchoring a small quiver of arrows is one thing. Very time and resource consuming, but it pales compares to what anchoring a couple of AK mags or a box of beltfed...

I think having a troll with a gimble-mounted LMG spitting enchanted ammo would have disturbing effects on game balance.

Stahlseele

Apr 12 2008, 02:02 PM

i present to you:
Uncle Ancients Ideas!

QUOTE

The Endless Six-Shooter
A modern remake of the classic pre-American Civil War era Navy Colt .36 caliber six-shooter, cast from a genuine iron church bell, with a hilt made from golden boar tusk. Custom-finished with silver and orichalcum arabesque-designs and half-centimeter tall runes.

Aside from being a fine firearm that many a pistol enthusiast would be happy to add to their collection, this weapon is a stacked Anchoring Focus (2) [Enhance Aim]/Specific Spell [Spiritbolt] focus (4). In addition, the focus is a Unique Enchantment with a Force 6 free fire elemental is bound within it by it's True Name. The free spirit possesses the Wealth power, which is used to make an "endless" supply of silver bullets for the gun.

AANNDD:

QUOTE

The Ace of Winchesters
A sleek, classic Winchester rifle, made of bright steel and dull gems that seem to burn when the light catches them right. There are three notches along the ivor-inlaid stock.

Rumors has it the Ace of Winchesters was made during the abortive second Texas Republic by one of the Rangers, built from metal from the Heavens and gems from the earth and the bones of saints to kill the dark spirit of the Aztlaners. Some even claim the Ranger sold his soul to make the rifle.

The Ace of Winchesters is actually a Force 8 ally spirit, whose summoner gave it the form of a classic Winchester rifle. Seamus O'Grady, the summoner, rents out the ally spirit as a weapon, quietly encouraging the legend he's built up around it. The Ally Spirit is dual-natured at all times while "on assignment."

O'Grady came up with the idea after finding an astral construct of a set of bullet-casting tools in an abandoned mine. He sends spirits searching far and wide across the astral, bringing him other astral constructs made of metal, smelting them into bullets for the Ace of Winchesters with the aid of a fire elemental and the tools.

Renting the Ace of Winchesters costs 10,000 CAS dollars per diem, paid in advance, and comes with three "astral bullets" and a box of ten silver bullets for more ordinary fare. Once the time-or the bullets-are used up, the Ace of Winchesters returns to O'Grady.

DocTaotsu

Apr 12 2008, 02:16 PM

Mmm... yes yes this is all very nice but do you have any in... vorpal?

nathanross

Apr 12 2008, 04:05 PM

The most magic gun I can think of is an Attuned (Gun) which a Phys ad can have. +DP = Magic/2 (round down?)

Fortune

Apr 12 2008, 04:58 PM

From Steve Kenson's website ...

QUOTE (SR3 Ally Spirit)

Loud Boy: A particularly deranged combat mage decided to bind his ally spirit into the focus of his favorite Ares Predator. He named the spirit "Loud Boy" (which is engraved on the side of the gun) and uses his faithful intelligent weapon in combat.

Loud Boy has developed an aggressive and violent personality that mirrors that of its summoner. Together the pair makes for a dangerous opponent. If the spirit were to go free, its disregard for the value of human life would make it a dangerous rogue, capable of starting conflicts to satisfy its desire for violence.

Force: 2, Native Plane: Plane of Fire, Statistics: Force. Loud Boy's gun form effectively gives it Body 2 and 4 points of Armor. It is capable of moving and firing on its own and can use its Magic Fingers spell to even re-load itself. It will fly to the hand of its master whenever it is summoned. Powers: Inhabitation, Skills: Firearms 6, Sorcery 5, Spells: Influence 4, Flamethrower 5 (allows the gun to shoot flames), Magic Fingers 3, Karma Cost: 35

Stahlseele

Apr 12 2008, 05:13 PM

with the name loud boy i'd have figured some spell or elemental effect utilizing sound or boom or something like that O.o

swirler

Apr 12 2008, 05:45 PM

I remember in our SR1 game the guy playing the mage asked the gm
"I want a magical sword that I can swing it and it attacks people from a distance. Like I can stand here and hit them over there. Can I do that? "

the gm looked at him for a minute then said
"It's Shadowrun... BUY A FREAKING GUN!!!!"

Chibu

Apr 12 2008, 06:08 PM

Yeah in 2e I played a mage/gunsmith once who's longer term goals was to make enchanted bullets. they were going to work similar to outlaw star i guess. Anchoring a Detect Impact spell with whatever other effect (Hellblast anyone?) I wanted. So yeah, they were gonna end up costing an arm and a leg and lost of karma, and I'd still take drain as normal. But for the ability to use a sniper rifle from half a klick have them take the damage and then hellblast was gonna be worth it. Arrows could easily be done the same way. Or even better, I think having a Bow Combat Spell focus (or manipulation, depending on how you like it) and Arrow expendable (as in the disappear before you shoot them) fetishes to make glowing doom arrow spells would be pretty sweet. Ya know, like the girl on the front of 3ed companion.

Stahlseele

Apr 12 2008, 06:13 PM

should be more or less possible, if one were to use uncle ancients approach to the matter . . but then, his approach to most things is just unique *g*

b1ffov3rfl0w

Apr 13 2008, 06:17 PM

It takes much more than wild courage
Or you'll hit just the tattered clouds
You must have just the right bullets
And the first one's always free.

nezumi

Apr 13 2008, 07:50 PM

A focus is only active while it is in physical contact with the user, hence bullets are right out. However, tasers, could hypothetically be done (just don't use the reach-based prices in the book, make it yourself!)

Heath Robinson

Apr 13 2008, 08:42 PM

QUOTE (swirler @ Apr 12 2008, 06:45 PM)

I remember in our SR1 game the guy playing the mage asked the gm
"I want a magical sword that I can swing it and it attacks people from a distance. Like I can stand here and hit them over there. Can I do that? "

the gm looked at him for a minute then said
"It's Shadowrun... BUY A FREAKING GUN!!!!"

Too many fail to understand the intimacy and beauty of killing someone by propelling small pieces of lead and copper into them at Mach 1 using a chemical exlosive. That films do not often depict tactical combat does not help people understand how interesting a gun fight can be when it involves people who are seriously trying to avoid dying. Hence the fact that the average person believes that swords are cooler and more interesting than guns, and roleplaying games exist for the entertainment of those who participate.

Stahlseele

Apr 13 2008, 08:53 PM

amen to that . . as much as i love my maxed out strength troll with his dikote pole-arm doing 20D damage in close Combat . .
i like my maxed out troll having not that much(still too much sadly) trouble firing a minigun . . strength and surgical striking are good . . but filling the air with lead does the same in a much more impressive way . . and if all else fails, there's still the Ares Great Dragon ATGM to take care of EVERYTHING that you can get the drop on . . only really big dragons, some other critters and some bunker-like structures will still be operational, and they, too, will have a large chunk blown right out of them . .
bt a magical gun is, sadly, even to me still cooler than that *g*
i would likely try to get the Trigun-Hand-Cannon by magical means ^^

Screamin Demon

Apr 13 2008, 09:05 PM

As if Shadowrun didn't have enough Daka already. Juju shooters, huh? I am kicking around the idea of a sniper-mage who's rifle is a sustaining foci for the spell 'Analyze Device', +6 dice to shooting pool nothing to sniff your nose at. I like the idea for anchoring a spell to the bullet. Sure it costs small kine karma, but that bodes to illustrate his professional dedication to the kill very well

Unfortunately having a spirit posses your weapon doesn't help much other then giving you 2 extra simple (Or 1 complex) action for shooting in one round (If you are trying to burst fire I would rule no wide bursts as the gun cannot be moved by the spirit, only fired). Get yourself a good SA sniper rifle with ample recoil compensation (At least 4 points). Once you get the target in your sights you pop two bullets into him, then the spirit possessing the gun pops two more bullets into him the same turn. You could also spend your two simple actions aiming, and have the spirit fire off two shots out in the same turn that you aimed. If the +2 dice is really worth it.
I think that works... Sound good to you people?

(Reference pg 102 of street magic)

Chibu

Apr 13 2008, 09:10 PM

I don't think the aim should count if the gun is firing at the same time. It kind of throws aim off.

Stahlseele

Apr 13 2008, 09:29 PM

well, as far as i understood that, it would not REALLY be happening at the same time . .
he'd aim the weapon for the spirit and the spirit shoots, kinda like you aim your gun for the smart link and the smartlink shoots for you . . or the other way around *g*

oh and SD? O.o
there is no such thing as enough dakka!
there's only open fire and reload, the two gods of Juju Pete, the Orky Psyonic Shoota-Boy *g*

Daier Mune

Apr 13 2008, 11:59 PM

QUOTE (Screamin Demon @ Apr 13 2008, 04:05 PM)

As if Shadowrun didn't have enough Daka already. Juju shooters, huh? I am kicking around the idea of a sniper-mage who's rifle is a sustaining foci for the spell 'Analyze Device', +6 dice to shooting pool nothing to sniff your nose at. I like the idea for anchoring a spell to the bullet. Sure it costs small kine karma, but that bodes to illustrate his professional dedication to the kill very well

hmm. Anchored Deathtouch spell designed to work only against a specific person. "a bullet with your name on it" so to speak.

Muspellsheimr

Apr 14 2008, 01:29 AM

In one of the game's I am playing in, the mage's ranged weapon is a rocket launcher. His melee is a Force 4 Weapon Foci rocket launcher...

mrslamm0

Apr 14 2008, 03:44 PM

Interesting idea...this may give me some ideas on my current campaign im running "borrowing" some things from Final Fantasy 7 (Waits to be mobbed and killed by the rest of dump shock for saying that).

Stahlseele

Apr 14 2008, 03:47 PM

*shrugs* Gun-Blades are totally fair game in a System that now Allows Battle-Tech Mechs and Power-Armor . .
wasn't there the thing about the anchor having to be at least that and that big and not being moveable because the spell would dissipate?
but i admit, the Rocket-Launcher is cool . . especially, since rockets are more or less big enough for such things and can be filled with other magical things ^^

lunchbox311

Apr 14 2008, 03:53 PM

If the taser idea works (I say it would as long as the cords are not disconnnected) would a grapple gun work too? Less damage, but a lot longer range for attacking those spirits.

Stahlseele

Apr 14 2008, 04:32 PM

what i find even worse in the idea of the taser and the grapple gun being able to do such things . . imagine you being on the well isolated and and another mage or yourself shooting lightning into the connecting wires/rope . . eh voila, you're now your own high-voltage-landline o.O

mrslamm0

Apr 14 2008, 04:46 PM

*Looks in Luchbox's direction* I am suddenly worried about the next game you run.....

Stahlseele

Apr 14 2008, 05:12 PM

*snickers* turnabout is fair game ^^
dumpshock gives anybody even more bad ideas, players and GM's equaly ^^

mrslamm0

Apr 14 2008, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Apr 14 2008, 10:12 AM)

*snickers* turnabout is fair game ^^
dumpshock gives anybody even more bad ideas, players and GM's equaly ^^

Very true well Dumpshock, Video Games and movies...

Siege

Apr 15 2008, 01:17 AM

I haven't followed the thread silliness for a while, but is there anything that prevents a spell/power focus from actually being a gun?

Say, the custom grips or the frame of the Ruger Superwarhawk revolver...

-Siege

Fortune

Apr 15 2008, 01:35 AM

QUOTE (Siege @ Apr 15 2008, 11:17 AM)

I haven't followed the thread silliness for a while, but is there anything that prevents a spell/power focus from actually being a gun?

Nope, there is nothing preventing this at all. Pretty much anything can be a Focus, as long as you take into account the OR during the Enchanting process.

Ancient History

Apr 15 2008, 03:42 AM

Be aware of the rule of thumb "Never enchant anything bigger than your head." Which with Augmentation received the annotation "Don't enchant your head or anyone else's either."

Chibu

Apr 15 2008, 03:45 AM

QUOTE (Ancient History @ Apr 14 2008, 11:42 PM)

Be aware of the rule of thumb "Never enchant anything bigger than your head." Which with Augmentation received the annotation "Don't enchant your head or anyone else's either."

This gives the the greatest idea ever: Cyberskill Spellcasting focus; Specific Spell Mana Bolt.

"I can kill you with my mind... I mean with my skull!"

BetaFlame

Apr 15 2008, 04:21 AM

QUOTE (Chibu @ Apr 14 2008, 10:45 PM)

This gives the the greatest idea ever: Cyberskill Spellcasting focus; Specific Spell Mana Bolt.

"I can kill you with my mind... I mean with my skull!"

Power Focus in the form of a Encephelon case

Screamin Demon

Apr 15 2008, 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Chibu @ Apr 13 2008, 09:10 PM)

I don't think the aim should count if the gun is firing at the same time. It kind of throws aim off.

Yah, that factor is represented in SR with recoil and recoil compensation. Make sure you have at least RC 3-4 and you should have no problem. Assuming that the weapon is SA. A BF/FA weapon...? Stack RC up as high as you can and you can technically FA fire twice that turn. As the movable mount is technically part of the gun, your spirit would then be able to move the gun on it's own as well.

Have the spirit possess a mounted minigun (Or Autocannon) and unleash a dizzying 10 short bursts in a single initiative pass!

Screamin Demon

Apr 15 2008, 10:28 AM

QUOTE (Chibu @ Apr 13 2008, 09:10 PM)

I don't think the aim should count if the gun is firing at the same time. It kind of throws aim off.

Yah, that factor is represented in SR with recoil and recoil compensation. Make sure you have at least RC 3-4 and you should have no problem. Assuming that the weapon is SA. A BF/FA weapon...? Stack RC up as high as you can and you can technically FA fire twice that turn. As the movable mount is technically part of the gun, your spirit would then be able to move the gun on it's own as well.

Have the spirit possess a mounted minigun (Or Autocannon) and unleash a dizzying 10 short bursts in a single initiative pass!

DocTaotsu

Apr 15 2008, 10:03 PM

To hell with that! Weapon Focus cyberskull!
Maneuver: Head Butt of Cleaving

WeaverMount

Apr 15 2008, 10:24 PM

Ok Great form spirit with Endowment. Clip full of just enough foliage on/in the bullet to be endowed with Energy Aura. Any thoughts on viability? How you resolve that?

Siege

Apr 16 2008, 01:39 AM

QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Apr 15 2008, 11:03 PM)

To hell with that! Weapon Focus cyberskull!
Maneuver: Head Butt of Cleaving

I thought your butt was already cleft...

-Siege

DocTaotsu

Apr 16 2008, 09:12 AM

Well it was either that or "Head-butt of Sundering"

Seriously... headbutt isn't a word is it?

Chibu

Apr 16 2008, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Apr 16 2008, 04:12 AM)

Well it was either that or "Head-butt of Sundering"

Seriously... headbutt isn't a word is it?

Headbutt. Sorry Doc

DocTaotsu

Apr 16 2008, 12:55 PM

I do not bow to wikipedia for wether or not a word is a word.

I bow only to Webster, and Webster says nay... the conjoining of head and butt does not yield the single headbutt.