Hello,
I know that this issue has been thru the forums a few times, but somehow i cant find anything on converted ghul rules for the 4th edition.
Somewhere in my mind i darkly remeber (or at least i hope so) that FrankTrollman posted somthing about this specific issue ... Am i wrong?

I am not only looking for human ghuls, but also for the other metaraces ... Help?

Practice patience, and you will be karmically rewarded.

I know ... The Runner's Companion comes soon ... But our new campaign starts this sunday ... So forgive my greed.

I think this is what you're looking for: SR4 Companion

-paws

Thank you paws. Say if i wanted to play an elfish ghoul i would have to add +1AG and +2CH to the ghoul rates inc the cost of 30bp ... Would this mean that an elfish ghoul would cost me 60bp during character creation?

The Ghoul stats in that thread are for a former human.

So, for a former Elf, I think it would be something like:

B: 5/10
A: 2/7
R: 3/8
S: 4/9
C: 1/6
I: 2/7
L: 1/5
W: 3/8
Edg: 1/6
Ess: 5
M: 1/5
Movement: 10/25

It makes sense that you'd apply the Elf attribute modifiers, then the Ghoul modifiers. Not sure if Edge would be adjusted though; probably not. (I suppose you could make an argument for dinging them a point of Edge, but its probably not worth it since it kind of sucks to be a Ghoul anyway.)

EDIT: and, yeah, it'd be 60 BP.

-paws

Damn it ... 60bp ... Its a lot. Did you forget the elfish CH boni, or why does an elfish ghul start "only" with CH1?

It'd be a wash. Elves get starting 3/8 CHA, but Ghouls apply a -2 modifier, which would affect both starting value and cap.

That's as I understand it, of course.

-paws

Miss those times where Ghouls were an own race and not some virusinfected thingies... *sob*

Thanks mate. You helped me here out, big time.

Maybe a better way to put it:

B +4
A +0
R +2
S +3
C -2
I +1
L -1
W +2
Edge 1/6
Ess -1
M 1/5

+/- modifiers affect the cap and starting value.
No starting value can go below 1.

Again, since the baseline Ghoul stats assume a Human, you could argue that they get -1 Edge too. But, as I mentioned, that'd just be mean.

For an elf i would put it down like this:

B +4
A +1
R +2
S +3
C -2
I +1
L -1
W +2
Edge 1/6
Ess -1
M 1/5

Pretty sure the +2 from being and elf and -2 for being a ghoul cancel each other out.

You are right, my mistake.

Karmic rewards aren't always nice, but yeah.

-Frank

Ghuls? aren't they the Cardasian nobles in ST: DS9?

That's spelled Gul.

-Frank

They have a cap of 6, instead of the cap of 4 for a formerly human ghoul. Also, 60 points may be pricey, but you get 130 points in bonus Attribute points. Still significant hindrances, but some adept builds or Intuition-based tradition mages might be pretty playable.

I wonder what the "official" version in Runner's Companion will look like? Probably a lot weaker, if the previous rules are anything to go by.

If so, I'll go back to the US and stab Ancient History in the face with mind bullets.

-Frank

I so hope the rules for PCs are the same as for NPCs. It's plain stupid if a NPC ghoul is superawesome and the PCs only advantage is his ability to call himself ghoul (or whatever critter he likes to play).

You hear that, dev team? Mind bullets are already loaded and aimed your way! Beware!

noo! . . not our dear old aunty! ._.

Even if the Attribute bonuses aren't as high, a PC ghoul could still eventually get as good, Attribute-wise, as the ghoul critter in the book, and probably have a better spread of skills along with adept or mage abilities. The one that really annoyed me in the old SR Companion was how they did shapeshifters. The NPC shapeshifters had abilities the the PC shapeshifters flat out didn't get (such as adding Essense to physical Attributes in beast form). I wouldn't mind rules similar to Bull's old ones, where fledgling vampires didn't start out with all of their powers, but over time could develop them. But if something is going to be allowed as a PC, then make the rules for it consistent with its NPC counterparts.

Great. When geeks argue.

You don't have to be a geek to know that...

It does help though...

Frank why do you want to use mind bullets when you could use speed holes? It would make him go faster.

Wasn't there already a thread devoted to stating ghouls already and how it is a very bad idea to make them into Shadowrunners? I mean you are kinda like the Nos Varatu in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines.