i am a near-complete newb to tabletop rpgs. i've always loved the SR universe, and i came to be familiar with it through reading the novels.

i came really close to being able to join a group for some SR gaming during the upcoming semester of school. however, due to class changes the would-be GM cannot run the game. problem is, i've gotten really into it. so into it that i now have ambitions of GMing a SR game with hardly any experience.

i bought most of the books, and i've been reading them. my first question may seem pretty dumb to you veteran and long-time RPGers.

ok, after reading a ton of SR3 and going through the combat rules, i decided to do some tests between two archetype characters (meaning only i was sitting at the table throwing dice for combat, trying to get the hang of it). i did get the hang of it. i understand initiatives, dodge rolls, staging damage, modifiers, etc.

what snagged me is this: when does the combat begin? when do characters roll initiative? and, perhaps more generally, how is combat initiated? for example, let's say i'm running a game and one of my players decides to attack someone. ok...so does he automatically go first for initiating the attack? let's say his initiative is really low...does the NPC he's attacking get to go first? do i announce, "the troll sees you reach for your gun." and begin the trolls combat phase instead of the player's? how do you go from just walking around a Stuffer Shack to combat turns? i could understand if the GM always initiates combat, then it's just "roll for initiative.", add details, etc. but what if you see a baddie walking around that you NEED to shoot, but he has higher initiative than you do. and if it's the case that he DOES get to go first, what about snipers?

or do you use Surprise rules in this situation? i'm sure this is a really general question and could apply to many rpgs. i had honestly never thought about it until tonight. can someone give me a really brief combat walkthrough? i'll play the PC if you want. or, at least, direct me to a walkthrough of standard SR3 combat. i've searched the threads and the net with no real success. i'd love to do a food fight run-through over the net because it seems like a good one to start with, and i am thinking of starting my players with it.

thanks.

Generally I rule if you're not surprised or caught flat footed, you roll initiative. If someone sneaks up on you, surprise roll. If you're sniped, oh well. But if someone is walking around nearby and pulls a gun, roll. If you're lucky, you'll roll higher, quickdraw, and kill him. If not, well, keep a spare character around.

so if one of my players is down the aisle from an NPC that he knows is up to no good, and he decides to pull a gun on him and take him out before trouble can really start...should i have the NPC do a perception test or something to determine if he notices my player pull the gun? then roll initiative if he does? or should i just have them roll, and use that to justify seeing the player pull the gun?

The surprise rules are on p. 109, SR3. They cover the situation you're describing.

thanks. i read the surprise rules a few times. and i've just read them again. it was still a little murky. it describes an ambush-type situation. i just mean if someone pulls a gun on someone not expecting it.

also, along the same lines, what if i want to shoot someone in the back? i assume it would go down much like the sniper situation Austere described--perception test. and if failed, no need to even roll initiative until after the first shot?

btw....wow, these are great, informative replies! and so quickly. thanks guys!

It REALLY depends on the situation here. Take the hypothetical example the original poster made. If both characters are aware of each other, and both are "on their guard", then I would say a surprise roll is not waranted at all. If Gunman A decides to draw down on Gunman B - initiating combat in the process - and then B proceeds to beat A on initiative, then that is just a case of B spotting A making his move, but then beating A to the draw. Nobody is surprised here, the guy starting the combat is just slower than his opponent. It happens - especially in a world of cyber modified reflexes.

Now if there is a back shot involved, or if one opponent has absolutely no idea that his opponent bears him any malice (because of a blown Perception roll or a ruling by the GM), then yeah roll for surprise. It's very much a question of the situation.

Short Rules of thumb that I use.

Both parties aware of one another:Roll initiative

One party making an agressive move the other suspiscious: surprise check, everyone in attacking party gets initiative.

Both parties surprised and agressive to one another (Unexpectedly opening a door on an unsuspecting security team.): Surprise check, its a big mess, possible for people on both sides to do nothing.

One party taking agressive action on completely unsuspecting party. (shooting someone from afar, sneaking up on someone asleep or oblivious) Free Action, followed by regular initiative for all, if anyone is left alive to react.

The thing that will happen most in a new game will be just regular inititive. I would just stick with rolling straight Initiative until your players actually plan an ambush, then explain the surprise rules.