I realized the other night that I have not ever had a player use skillwires. It seemed to me, especially with things like optimization and DIMAP and chipjack expert drivers, that a skillwired character would not only be a lot of fun to play (providing a whole new meaning to the saying "I know everything"), but would also hold up rather well against other sorts of archetypal characters.

So, to verify my assumptions, I went about making one. After playing with it for a while, I realized that there was a discrepancy between my understanding of the wording in the BBB and the CC. My current understanding is that, the term "Max Rating" refers to the sum total of all simultaneously running chips. As such, following, the formula for skillwire system cost:

= (max rating) X (max total MP) X 500

A system that would allow you to run 2 rating 5 activesofts simultaneously would cost:

10 X 150 X 500 = 750,000

Assuming every single chip you buy is also optimized (as per the CC option), that could be 375,000 (with the tradeoff of doubling chip cost)...
but anyway... I suppose I should ask my questions.

1) Is my understanding of the cost calculation currently correct? (check out that alliteration!)

2) How many skills is it really reasonable to expect to use simultaneously?

3) Would switching out softs be a free action (assuming, perhaps, either a 4-slot chipjack or that a number of softs are in headware memory)? "Activate cyberware" is a free action, but the description of what "activate cyberware actually" means is a bit different than this.

4) Has anyone ever played with a skillwired character and found it to be both fun and worth the cost?

I work under the assumption that anything over a rating 3 chip is exceedingly hard to come by, given that 3 is considered trainded in the Shadowrun skillsystem.

Most of my characters use skillwires at level 3 because of the flexibility it gives a character. without making that character too broken.

I absolutely adore skillwires, especially if used with a bit of reason by the player (as opposed to totally munching them out). One of my favorite combos of implants included:

* Obvious Cyberforearm with a Custom Finish (Silver) and Engraving options (taken from the Firearm Creation rules) just to make it look cool for 40,200 nuyen.
* Skillwires ASIST 4/Pulse 24 for 48,000 nuyen.
* DNI-Controlled Skillsoft Jukebox with 10 Ports at 24 Mp each installed the forearm for 28,800 nuyen.
* Chipjack with Chipjack Expert Driver 3 routed to the cyberforearm for 17,000 nuyen.
* ActiveSofts 4 with the Customized option for 24,000 nuyen a pop or Optimized for 9,600 nuyen a pop.

I usually didn't bother with DIMAP softs as the costs were too great and I don't like using Skillsofts for weapon skills anyway. I kept them around for those skills you're unlikely to really ever need or want to train in, but which might come in handy sometimes. Skills like Parachuting, Diving, Submarines, Fixed-Wing Aircraft, and Lockpicking. I'd also use them for Technical and Build/Repair skills and things like that, as well as obscure weapons like Gunnery and Launch Weapons. I also never really bothered to get wires that could support more than one skill at a time, as it rarely comes up outside of using Stealth or Athletics at the same time.

It really depends on what you're trying to build, however. The 'wires I mentioned above would routinely give a character approximately 7 to 8 dice on most tests, and that's almost too many in most situations. Especially since I only used 'em for Skills that don't normally allow the use of pools to begin with, so even a well-trained doctor would have a hard time keeping up with your slotted Biotech skill.

But for the most part, yes, your calculations above looked right to me. Just decide what skillsofts you're going to use your wires with before you get them, then build the implants around that.

Never, never, never take Combat skillsofts. I doubt you'd want to be in the middle of a firefight waiting for your Assault Rifles 6 skill to load while your teammates are all being shot up. Learn all your Combat skills the natural way, and do other things with Skillsofts. Just as long as you aren't in combat or in a huge rush, you should be fine using them.

Well, the BBB lists the availability of activesofts at 6, regardless of rating. Optimization adds 2 to the availability, but 8 is still doable under standard chargen rules. The difference is that a rating 5 soft costs about 3 times as much as a rating 3 soft. I understand that in different games house rules apply... but I would like a strictly canon perspective.

(Edit: this was to Nomad... )

It's probably 'reasonable' to only use 1, MAYBE 2 skills at the same time. The only thing I can think of that you might need to do without 3 seconds to swap chips would be combat, and it's pretty useful to actually know how to use your guns without having to fiddle with your ware.

I'd guess that swapping disks that you already have in the jack would be a simple action (it needs time to download into headware). Grabbing the chip out of a bag would be complex.

I've made two skillwired characters, and they were both pretty neat. This is especially true of the pre-eratta CED. I've only done this so far with B&E characters, since the system really is very essence expensive, and since B&E really requires a very diverse skill set. It's just a fun idea, IMO, that I can go buy a chip for 'pilot helicopter' and off we go. Unfortunately, it still requires a bit of preparation, since I can't usually by the chips while I'm in the corp facility. And normally I just end up needing either a drive skill or a weapons skill (one in memory and one in the jack so I can swap 'em when I need to), since nothing else really comes up that often. But from what I've seen, activeware is really only a benefit early on in the game. Unless you're a mage (in which case it'll be a low level system anyway), you normally end up with a fair bit of karma you can put into random fun skills to get them to level 3, and the only skills you really want at 4+ you probably want to actually know. But they do take up a lot of essence, so you can't get a lot of other neat systems and really I could have gotten just as good results by swapping money priority with skill priority.

I've gone ahead and put the knowledge soft link on my decker, since that's very essence friendly and probably also pretty fun (if I'm reading the rules right, you don't need the whole skillwire system for knowledge soft, just the reader thingy). But we all know how often we use knowledge skills...

Right. Skillwires are only needed for ActiveSofts. All other Skillsofts can get away with just a Chipjack or Knowsoft Link.

Don't forget that the thing with skill wires is you can have a max MP rating completely unrelated to the max soft rating. So if you have (shudder) Max 10 rating/300MP wires, you could load one R10 skill. Hooray! But really, are you going to need, let alone find a R10 active skillsoft? Ignoring the street index and availability and that, think about how these things get programmed. You'd need someone that good, then be able to get a year or so of their time to gather data... prohibitively expensive if you ask me. No-one would do it except as a custom job. But with Rating 10 capable wires you could reasonably acquire and use a rating 6 soft, which only needs 108MP. Far cheaper. And with only 108 MP, but a max R10 set of wires, you can instead run 3 R3 chips with MP to spare. Or with an extra 48 MP on that you could run a R6 and a R4. A skill soft jukebox and you're away.

That's why I like skillwires. Very expensive, especially if you want them at a higher grade, but those kind of limits and flexibility DO make an interesting character to play. They can get kinda abusively powerful if you let them, but anything can be munchkinned if you try hard enough and really want to for some reason. Just keep the skill levels reasonable/realistic, and you can really get some enjoyment out of it. Just do try not to overshadow the other players if you can do things better than them. Do your best to complement the team. I'm sure you would anyway, I just think that with this type of character you sometimes have to really watch out for it cos its very easy to get carried away!

EDIT - on the subject of how many to allow running at once, I'm not sure if there's a canon quote, but we've always played max # skills =MaxRating/2. Otherwise what's the point of a skillsoft jukebox except as a handy data terminal. The idea is to run them concurrently imho. That's why they're so expensive in terms of both essence and cash, because they ARE powerful (and difficult to make, and harsh on body infiltration).

Eh? Skillsoft Jukeboxes costs exactly as much as a standard computer with an equal amount of megapulses would cost. A Skillsoft Jukebox with 10 100 Mp ports costs 20,000 nuyen. A Desktop Computer with 1,000 Mp (10*100) costs... 20,000 nuyen. The fact that the Jukebox is basically a Pocket Computer (Concealability 3 for both) actually makes it significantly cheaper, as Pocket Computers normally cost five times as much.

The real question is why the frag computers cost so damn much in Shadowrun, or why a Skillsoft Jukebox has to have all of the chips loaded into its memory instead of just swapping them in a more sane fashion.

I didn't mean jukeboxes were expensive, I meant the wires themselves. Sorry.

I was just saying what's the point of a jukebox if not to run them concurrently, otherwise you may as well as you say just buy a pocket secretary or whatever. Its an external way of getting multiple chipjacks, the only point of which in the first place could be so you could access a number of different things at once, rather than switching between them.

Uhm, no... the point is that you can freely switch between them rather than having to slot a new one each time. Sure, you can do it with Headware Memory or a Pocket Computer, but Headware Memory is insanely priced (and costs way too much Essence), and a Pocket Computer is five times more expensive.

Standard loadout for my mage (skillwires-3 + CED-3 + chipjack-4, all Alpha):

Slot 1) Attached to jukebox with various active skills. Pistols(Remington Roomsweeper) by default. Car, Car(B/R), Electronics(Security Systems)(B/R), a few others I can't think of right now.

Slot 2) jukebox with knowsofts and languages. Parabiology/botany, Japanese, Hermetic library, Conjurer library.

Slot 3) The 'magazine rack'. UCAS Today (gives you something interesting to read while the Johnson's prattling on about not having enough money. Also good if you need to make a Current Events check), Seattle StreetBeat (weekly listing of clubs and hotspots - you never know when you'll have to find a crowd in a hurry), Paterson's Guide to Paranormal Animals, Jane's Almanac (when you need to find out what you're up against - NOW!) .

Slot 4) Empty, in case he needs to slot something in a hurry.

Yeah, I know it isn't good min-max to put combat skills on a chip, but he's a mage - if all he's got left is his gun, it's cryin' time.

Oh, and all jukes are loaded for voice activation, for easy swapping.

All for 1 point Essence.

Hah! Spooky, you're the second person I know of to use the same idea.

Jane's Weapons, Patterson's Guide to Paracritters, Britannica Encyclopedia (just because), Gray's Anatomy, Burke's Guide to Toxicology and Pharmacology

The list just goes on and on and on.

-Siege

My mage, Skee, is primarily an illusionist, so having a catlog of pics in your head of various people, critters, vehicles, and weapons of mass destruction can come in handy when trying to scam some poor, unsuspecting Mund .

One of my most powerful characters ever owed much of his ability to skillwires. Instead of relying on chipjacks alone, I used headware memory to hold smaller skillsofts (this was under SR2 rules, which were considerably different). Now, I'd probably stick to specializations and maybe one or two often-used non-pool skills in the headware memory.

I don't know if any official ruling was made regarding whether you could use an expert driver on skillsofts stored in headware memory. I also don't know if you could optimize skillsofts like other programs, cutting your storage needs in half (64mp for a rating 6 activesoft... nice!). I'd be inclined to allow both, but that's me. Anyone know if either of these issues has been officially addressed?

CED's can not be used with softs stored in headware memory, only with chips currently slotted in the chipjack on which is it installed (which is why you have to get a separate CED for each chipjack, rather than just routing the single CED to all of them). It is, afterall, a "Chipjack Expert Driver" rather than a "Skillsoft Active Driver"

You can get an activesoft optimized (CC, 62), which halves program size and doubles program cost.

You can always route the Chipjack to Headware Memory, thereby gaining it's bonus with headware memory-loaded 'softs.

Oh good grief. Yes it does, because the "skill encoded in a chip" is downloaded into headware memory. Normally, headware memory isn't access by a chipjack, but the router allows it to. In effect, the router is routing the headware memory's download of the skillsoft into the chipjack just as if it were a chip being slotted.

Things like this are the entire *point* of routers.

Which, again, is why the Headware Memory is being routed to the Chipjack (as opposed to the Chipjack Expert Driver).

On a related note...
How would you handle MA (martial arts) maneuvers for chipped MA skills?
I know chipping combat skills is a Bad Idea™, but I do think it would be interesting to have someone switch between MA skills Matrix-style depending on the situation.

So... say you call up your fixer to get your hands on KungFuMaster 4.0 -- would a "default" set of maneuvers be included on the chip, would the 2 extra 'skill points' per maneuver count toward effective chip rating, drekcetera.

I've been looking through CC, but it looks like this isn't stated anywhere explicitly. Anyone seen otherwise?

OK.. in your game, sure. Not in mine, ever. Yeah, a router allows data communication... so you could copy something you recorded with your opticam into headware memory onto a chip and hand it to someone. I think of the CED as being, at least in part, a structural modification to the chipjack... otherwise, as I said before, why would it be called the chipjact expert driver? Why not just call it the skillsoft expert driver and have it affect everything? Or why not allow it to be installed in a datajack, such that a soft piped through it could gain the benefits? Probably because the CED involves, at least in part, a degree of structural modification to the chipjack to improve data efficiency... and no router can emulate the insertion of a chip into the chipjack to gain the benefit of those structural modifications.

Again, in your game, thats cool. Do whatever you want. Just realize that its largely a house rule on the functionality of routers.

The *point* of routers is exactly as described in MM, to link up chemical analyzers to headware cellphones, and other things that arent normally interconnected.

Please show me where I ever said the CED wasn't an accessory/modification to the Chipjack. I'll save you the time -- I never did and agree with you 100% on that topic.

However, just like an Opticam is an accessory/modification of a Cybereye, so too is the CED an accessory/modification of a Chipjack. And you seem to have no problem whatsoever with using a Router to send from an Opticam to Headware Memory. Your logic there is utterly and wholly baffling. I can't even comprehend how you think it's a game balance problem, either; it's exactly the same as using a Skillsoft Jukebox (which, I might add, is *INFINITELY CHEAPER* in both Nuyen and Essence than Headware Memory) with a Chipjack. In fact the ONLY difference of consequence is that you're replacing a fiber optic cable of the Skillsoft Jukebox with the Routing of the Headware Memory.

And no, it's not a house rule on the functionality of a Router. It's what a Router does, just like the other examples you've given.

I see it this way: You can port a chip to memory, but it loses some integrity. You can already port an installer from a CD to your HDD, and it works almost exactly alike. There are a few nuances that only the most trained would notice, but for the most part, it's all the same.

Then I guess you can't use Headware Memory at all with Skillwires, as the description for Skillwires also specifically state that they interact with "specially designed optical chips."

I'm sorry, this is really a silly, silly argument. There is nothing to suggest that it can't be done or, god forbid, that it is in any way unbalancing whatsoever.

Let's see, a Rating 6 standard ActiveSoft takes up 108 Mp. To run two of those from Headware Memory you have to blow 0.72 Essence and 32,400 nuyen for the Headware Memory alone, not including the Router or Datajack you need to route it to the CED. Now let's say you're using a Skillsoft Jukebox for the exact same thing; two 108 Mp ports cost you 4,320 nuyen and -0- Essence. No Router or Datajack required. And god forbid you want to juggle between more than two 'softs with Headware Memory.

Oh, how horribly unbalanced! The world's surely coming to an end now! Hell, for the same price as that Headware Memory you can have a Skillsoft Jukebox that supports 15 Activesofts of the same rating... and you didn't need to lose 0.72 Essence.

Sarcasm... just another service provided by the good doctor.

Yes, you CAN Route Headware mem to a CED. That's the entire purpose behind a Router. Do you honestly think there's anything you could put on the tiny tube that makes up a Chipjack that could not also be mirrored in HeadMem? Seriously, you're throwing away the definition of a Router when you say you can't do that.

Sphynx

And like previously mentioned, the entry for Skillwires specifically mentions that it gets its information from those same, optically-encoded skillsofts. So, naturally, based upon that phrasing headware memory can't be used in anyway whatsoever with skillwires -- as it specifically states that it requires the skillsofts. And that's just silly logic.

What keeps you from routing your headware memory to multiple CEDs, thereby gaining assloads of dice?

I'm with Spooky. The CED is specific in that it works with the skill on a chip; after all, it's a chipjack enhancement. Skillwires aren't a fair comparison because they even mention buying a chipjack "and/or" memory in their description. It is obviously intended that they be usable with headware memory.

The same thing that stops you from routing multiple Chipjacks with CEDs together -- nothing except the GM putting their foot down (and the new errata that says the maximum rating, and logically the maximum benefit, from a CED is a Task Pool of 3). And sorry, they'd still be reading from the chip in that case, so even that rather weak argument wouldn't help out there.

You guys really need to read up on Routers, too. You don't route parts of an implant to other implants, you route the entire implant. For instance, you route a Chipjack, a Cybereye, or a Cyberarm to another implant, not a Chipjack Expert Driver, or Thermographic Vision (unless it was just a reticle implant and not an accessory to a Cybereye), or a Cyberlimb Cyberdeck.

But as the usual comments goes -- play it however you like in your game.

Err, no you can't. You can do that no more than you can double the benefit of, say, Vision Magnification 3 by routing it to another Vision Magnification 3. Just like you can't route two Skillwire systems with an ASIST rating of 4 together to run a single Rating 8 ActiveSoft. You can't install two sets of Wired Reflexes 2, route them together, and expect to get +8/+4D6 to your Reaction/Initiative, either.

In fact, none of the implants that I'm aware of "stack" in that fashion whatsoever, so there's no grounds to believe that it would work that way with multiple Chipjacks and CEDs.

So yes, I stick to canon as well instead of making up stuff to rationalize a house rule that makes no sense to begin with (either in-game or meta-game). Routers allow you to route Headware Memory to a Chipjack with a CED installed, and thus gain the benefits thereof. That's what Routers do.

Besides, a simple Electronics B/R (I believe) test can erradicate copy protection on a Skillsoft. I believe it's mentioned in the Cannon Companion somewhere, in fact.

Actually I believe its physically impossible to copy softs like that IIRC.

I'm awaiting a response from Rob on this subject.

ooops... edit

No, I'm reading the actual description of the implant. You know, the one where it says it makes the Chipjack itself more efficient, not the Skillsoft. There are no magic kung fu powers encoded in the chip that only the all-powerful CED has the ability to unlock. That's your house rule. It makes the Chipjack more efficient. Normally, a Chipjack can only access data encoded on a chip becuase it is a Chipjack -- hence the wording of the rules. That's why you use a router to route the information from a Skillsoft loaded into Headware Memory (most likely data coming through that very same Chipjack to begin with, but obviously the CED can't read the information it needs that way even under your mysteriously weird house rule, right?) to the Chipjack.

And Zazen, yes, the Task Pools from an Enchephelon and a Cerebral Booster "stack." But you can't have two Enchephelons or two Cerebral Boosters and expect them to "stack." Even if you did route Headware Memory to multiple CED-enhanced Chipjacks, the Skillsoft data you routed would only go to one of them. I don't care if you have ten dozen of them daisy chained together, they're still individual implants. Sure, you can send data from one to another, but it doesn't enhance their abilities in any way, shape, or form. You can just communicate between them. Again, you're using another house rule to try and rationalize another one. NOTHING in the game works the way you're suggesting CEDs work.

A story:

Imagine that we are playing in a lower-tech SR game, closer to current levels. Lets, furthermore, pretend that one of the characters, "d3xx0r", is a hacker who wants to upgrade his computer. A wiz new device that just hit the market is a brand new MiniDisc reader that, somehow, optimizes the reading, writing, and data processing of minidiscs so incredibly well as to make them actually faster than the R/W speed of his hard drive. This d3xx0r buys this new drive... but then he gets an *idea*

"Hey, GM" d3xx0r says, "I would like to re-wire my computer so the hard drive uses the new MD drive's firmware to increase its own R/W speed"

Now, as we exit the story, I ask you... what would you say?

"Sure, make a computer b/r and an electronics b/r test?"

or do you say

"No, a chip on your MD drive can't improve your hard drive just by hooking them together with wires"

...Well?