Is it possible to have several people engage in the conjuring act at the same time? I was thinking of having my character hire about 10 NPC's with a conjuring skill of at least 3 giving me upwards of 30 dice and a buttload of karma. The goal wil be to summon a force 24 elemental. What would the rules for this be? Would they pool the dice or keep them seperate? What about drain would that be divided between the people? Good idea or bad?

ritual conjuring is an interesting idea, but there are--as of yet--no rules for it.

As mfb said, there are no rules for this. Even if they were, and even if you had 30 dice, you *still* only have a 2.31% chance of summoning a force 24 spirit.... and dont forget the 24D physical drain for every ritual member... mmm, delicious.

Hmm, with each one also using spell pool you could get up to 60 dice which upgrades the odds a little more, but the drain would still be killing.

Reminder : spell pool is just for that, spells. Spell pool is not usable for Conjuring purposes.
You can help with totem modifiers, Centering and spirit focus, however. A Power focus raising your Magic Attribute is of some help too, as any Sustaining focus with Increase Charisma Attribute...

Here is what I suggest to stay canon and nonetheless use a team to conjure a spirit:
- one person of the team is the conjurer, the others will only help him.
- the team can help him study the particular spirit he aims at conjuring (such preliminary study can earn him some benefit for conjuring itself, at the GM discretion).
- the team can try to use magic to make the conjurer a better conjurer : increase his Charisma Attribute through (Ritual) Sorcery for instance.
- they can help him concentrate during the long ritual (if elemental spirit is conjuring for instance), and help him use Centering if relevant.
- they can protect him during the ritual, so that he won't be disturbed nor harmed.

Not to mention splash water on him to keep him awake... Conjuring a force 24 elemental would take a good 24 hrs of straight mojo... *whew* Hey, I bet this kinda craziness leads to being able to summon things like the Wild Hunt, wherein drain is measured by how many magicians die during the summoning...

What're you going to do with a Force 24 elemental that you probably only get to use once?

Are you kidding, I got ten services out of him...

Do you realize, that summoning of an elemental almost always happens? What you're really making the test for is to see if you can control it. If you score 0 successes, you have an extremely angry and very very hostile force 24 fire elemental that only a pair of greater dragons could take down.


No force 24 elementals for you! bad bad. Stick to puppies or something.

but who else will bring me my beer and women?

Mind Controlled team mates, of course.

of course, but they have all gone out to the seven eleven to get me muchies im a Rastashaman....

Yet 'ritual conjuring' appears so often in film, TV and books. Strange that it should not be incorporated...? (Images of Carpenter's Robin of Sherwood and a coven trying to summon Satan! )

Indeed, perhaps an interesting difference would be just that. Normal conjuration summons up generic examples of elementals or spirits, whereby Named spirits are a different matter? (Yes, I know about the use of 'names' in conjuration, but just thought that I would throw this out anyway...)

Kage

I could've sworn I'd read something about not being able to work magic while being under the influence of mind control. If not in 3rd edition, maybe 1st or 2nd?

I realize that there are no direct rules out there about it, but at least in my games a 24 force Conjuring library is something only an immortal elf or great dragon "might" have. It's well beyong the ability of even AAA megacorps.

Joker: Nope. First of all, as has been said, there are no canon rules for ritual conjuring, period. Second, check out the rules for ritual sorcery... whatever it is about using magic that causes drain, everyone participating in ritual magic suffers the full effects of it.

booklord: Good call about the rating 24 conjuring library... I guess they'll have to kidnap toxic shamans instead. Force 30 free toxic spirits are tastier anyway.

No, because precedent is already set in how Ritual Magic works with Ritual Sorcery. If Ritual Conjuring were allowed, it would logically follow that Drain would work in a similar fashion.

I still think a seperate Metamagic would be the best way to house rule Ritual Conjuring.

If that is the case what is the advantage of ritual sorcery? I would love to look it up myself but my GM took the books with him when he went home for christmas break.

Umm Joker? you said this:

I am not contradicting myself. Drain is the same for all magical skills. and what is the one thing conjuring and sorcery have in common? Suprise they are both magical skills! When I was reffering to how different they are I was reffering to how different they are in use and pratice (For example casting a spell and canjuring a spirit are two completely different things) I apoligize for not making myself clear on this point earlier.

A lot of dice in the pool also mean potential BIG area of effect for spell cast by ritual sorcery...

Also, when casting a spell using ritual sorcery, one can spare dice so that the ritual sustains the spell a number of hours equal Magic x # spared dice. That's a cheap sustaining focus ersatz.

About 20+ Force spirits, I seem to remember that 3rd Edition set a limit of max Force of spirit a conjurer can try to conjure. This limit is IIRC function of the Magic Attribute.

MitS, page 34, under requirements (first line).

Magic in the Shadows page 34, first sentence of the first paragraph on the first page of the chapter on Ritual Sorcery under "Requirements."

Heh... thanks. Don't have my books with me, and I must have missed that on my last readthrough. Just had to make sure it wasnt someone's vague rememberance of how it works...

The other thing I was waiting for someone to point out was that CoalHeart was wrong about the spirit always appearing when summoned... if there are no successes, no spirit shows up... so no rampaging force 30 free spirits. Oh well.

I'm not sure about a normal spirit showing for a failed conjuring.

Trying to bind a free spirit requires knowing its true name, so it will show when its true name is spoken 3 times. Also, when attempting to conjure a great form spirt, you first make a conjuring test, the spirit shows, then you make a second test at 2*F, if this fails to achieve a success the spirit goes uncontrolled.

Will it be pissed? I think there should be some die roll to determine if it can stay even long enough to make anyone worry about it being pissed, but I think about all canon gives is a roll for how it may become a free spirit.

BtW, What is the difference between an uncontrolled spirit and a free spirit? I know what the mechanics are, but what is to keep the GM from just saying no spirits become free (and hence subject to binding by anyone with its true name) and uncontrolled spirits (that operate much as free spirits with limited abilities) that can only be controlled by someone of the same tradition (a much smaller population and one that the GM can manipulate by never having elementals go uncontrolled around mages, nature spirits around shamen, only spirits of the elements around regular mages and shamen , etc., you get the idea. But how do uncontrolled spirits act differently than free spirits? Do they just act like homicidal maniacs until they decide to return to their native plane? Do they have to return to their native plane? Can they decide to stay?

So am I right in making the assumption that in ritual sorcery everyone in the group casts the spess and combines their collective successes?

no... everyone combines their sorcery into a collective pool for the ritual leader to divide up among the various parts of the ritual (linking, sending, casting and drain resistance).

wonder if there are great form ally spirits...

Everyone in the ritual must be capable of casting the spell at the desired force for ritual sorcery. The same would hold true, every conjurer would have to have initiated at least twice to conjucre a force 15 and with a drain TN of 7, you'll want to have a lot of dice to resist drain (which means a lot of dice that can't be used to get the TN of 15 to conjure the elemental).

Find ten initiates with power foci who want to give you an overwhelmingly powerful tool, and give it a try.

i belive the phraise is money talks

Not that much it doesn't! Not in the Sixth World, where magic is somewhat rare, and any magically-active person that wants money that bad would already be working for a Corp. You aren't going to easily find 10 Initiates with the right qualifications who are willing to risk crippling themselves (or worse!).

true didnt think of it that way. Ill Just have to work on initating and binding power focui. Plus is it possible to buy an edge after character creation?

That depends on your GM. If he does allow it, the suggested cost is 10 Karma per Build Point cost of the Edge.

No, that's the cost for buying off a Flaw. Officially, you can't buy an Edge after the game begins. The only way to get one is to have the GM just hand it to you. SRComp p. 16, "Edges & Flaws During Game Play" and "Eliminating Flaws."

I know it isn't officially sanctioned, but I was sure that I had seen it mentioned somewhere. There are times when a character could possibly gain an Edge during the course of a campaign. If the GM isn't willing to give it to them for free, then the 10 Point/BP rule sets a good precedent for cost.