Woman sure she exists; government agencies don't acknowledge her

Without a valid ID, she's found that she can't buy a home, rent an apartment, buy a car, get married or even get a job.

“You've got to have ID for everything - everything,� she said.

The only help she has been able to get is from Medicaid and food stamps, assistance she was receiving before losing her license.

“It's making me nonhuman. I haven't done anything to deserve this.�

Not unheard of. You can't vote in Indiana without a driver's license. Talk about a denial of basic American rights.

I am ok with someone not being able to vote without a photo ID. The inability of the system to be flexible enough to work through the details of her circumstances I am not.

One of the points that got me is the vicious circle she is in. She lost her license and cannot get originals of the birth certificates.... so she is a non-citizen. She is effectively SINless. I see this as a direct paradigm to questions posed in the past like: How can you have SINless in a country like the UCAS who are not illegal aliens? What are the effects of being SINless? What is the lineage of the state of being SINless?

Especially considering the destructability of originals. One building burns down, there goes the original proof of your birth!

I know a number of people that has happened to, they are very, very, VERY careful with their current birth certificate. One keeps it in a Bank Lockbox.

Very interesting...

Reminds me of the newspaper story I read awhile ago about a chap in India who had been declared dead on the evidence of some nasty relatives...
...And couldn't prove he was alive - even though he would visit the relevant offices !!


Thanks for posting this...
...I'll add it to the news article section of my own website..

I'm not. There is no reason to have such a requirement. There was a time when people trusted each other. There was a time when all you needed to do was say ho you were and that was that. There was a time when you could go about your business without the government constantly poking its fingers in your ass. The requirement of ID to exercise fundamental liberties is just one minor symptom of this.



She has options, of course, easy ones. She could borrow some money from a friend, go down to kinkos, and make herself a new driver's license. While she's at it she could also print out FBI, DEA, CIA, and Homeland security IDs that way she could do things like flash an ID, say "I'm commandeering your car for official business", and steal a hopefully nice car.

IDs make people complacent and easily duped. People trust IDs. And it is very easy to make a fake one. All you need is a color printer and some plastic cards. Even modern "security features" such as holographic foil can be duplicated with a little applied science.

The birth certificate is also fun, since it is effectively a useless document. There is no way to tie a birth certificate to an individual so one can simply obtain someone else's birth certificate and get an official state ID in that person's name.

Um. And you had to be male, white, and own land. Great times back then.

These days at least in the US we have the issue of millions (litteraly) of illegal immegrants who might like to vote, and sometimes get to anyway. I'd think some stuff like the started the origins of the SINless. Others probably feel through the cracks. They became homeless and forgot to carry all their paperwork on them. Then they had some kids.

I agree with Hyzamarca. REQUIRING an ID to vote is ridiculous. It leads to the possibility of unnecessary discrimination, against people who don't drive, against people who think the government is out to get them (it is), against people who don't exist, etc. If they can prove they have knowledge about who they are, ex: home address, political affiliation, etc., that should be sufficient. If someone is stealing someone else's vote, it'll come up with the real person comes in to vote. Otherwise, voting, like gun ownership, is one of those rights that should have as little government interference as physically possible, excepting when you're playing a dystopian game, in which case it's okay.

Also, as a government employee, I feel compelled to tell you that woman does not, in fact, exist. It's all just a farce made up by the mass media. Swamp gas.

Well, thanks for invalidating your first point with the second.

As to voting, there's too much voter fraud as is. An ID is not an unreasonable control in an attempt to reduce that. Imperfect yes, but better than nothing.

So getting back to the relevancy to 2070, this creates quite a vicious circle that will only only get worse when all documentation is electronic. A malicious change or one as a result of data corruption and you go from Joe citizen to SINless and homeless.

There are a few excerpts and examples in Emergence that discuss a few people who lost their SINs in the Crash and what happened to them afterwards.

RE: The Kinko's Connection--YMMV, but the Kinko's employees are instructed to contact Law Enforcement if they suspect forgery. I'd recommend visiting in the late hours or using one of the busier stores.

There was a major hullaballo in Quebec in the last election.

You need photo ID and show your face, or swear upon a bible to legally vote. (Or both if you're not registered in the area. I had to do both as Elections Canada still thinks I'm in Ontario, for example.).

Some Islamic women were upset as they could not show their face, and, of course, could not swear upon a bible for religious purposes. (At this point I will say that while Canada accepts all religions, it is still a Christian Country by the Glory of God. Sorry, that's the way it goes.).

This lead to people showing up in Halloween masks to vote and refused to remove them.

I presume you're referring to scanning and printing ??

Would that even be possible ??
Home scanners and Adobe software will not not allow you to work with money in paper form...
...As per this quickly googled link.

So I'd imagine something similar for all scanners in shops, photocopiers, etc.

And that time has long since passed.


That's pretty much the very purpose of all governments that ever have or will existed.


No there isn't. In well over 99% of claims of voter fraud, it has turned out to be complete shit. And there are several US attorneys who will agree; they were fired because they called bullshit when demanded to act on falsified or non-existent evidence in order to, let's be frank, keep Democrats from voting.


Boo fucking hoo. Or am I alone in thinking that is a retarded line to draw when it comes to accepting subjugation?

It split the country pretty fairly.

On the one hand, why should an exception be made.

On the other, we are required, by culture, morality, and law, to respect religious requirements.

And then we got the jokers who came out in the Donald Duck masks.

When I changed my name it was very difficult for me to convince various agencies that I was who I claimed to be and I had supporting evidence of the legal name change. I was going to Italy for my honeymoon and I didn't get my passport in my new name until about four days prior to leaving! I still haven't been able to get some bills to use my new name. It was a major mess, and one that no one seems to be interested in solving. I can't even imaging the problem that this person is having if I've been unable to penetrate the bureaucracy given supporting documentation and three years of work!

its one of the few thing that make one love living in a area where everybody knows you by face...

That is simply a false statement.... though I am sure fraud is even worse in a dystopian world like Shadowrun. Instead of just the misguided sympathizers, unions and businesses trying to rig the vote, you also have widespread corruption via organized crime and poli-clubs as well.

Not to mention those Shadowrunning Bastards casting multiple votes with their numerous fake SINs.

I mean, hell, that's how Dunkie got elected over the Good and Richeous Brackhaven!

What seemed really odd to me about that is the requirement that it was a Bible. You don't need to swear on a bible to provide testimony in court for example. When I needed to do so I took my oath on a copy of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I see no reason that the Islamic women couldn't swear on a copy of the Koran, provided they brought their own.

*edit* good god I'm derailing threads left and right here today.

Got me, but with all the French-Catholics and the power base they have in Quebec, it's easily understandable that they'd insist that it be a Bible.

And they might be changing it to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms now because of that. Which, IIRC, was written as religiously neutral as possible. And, considering modern Canada, rightly so. Wish I knew where my copy was. Lost it in a move.

But back to being SINless. It's not as far as one would think. Especially if you carry your SIN/SSN Card and Birth Certificate in your wallet/purse! I mean, you have to pretty much carry your Driver's License and Health Card at all times (If you have Health Insurance in the US, that is. Go Canada and Universal Health Care! The cockiest Jaywalkers in North America!).

With those gone, how do you prove you're you?

In fact, if your keys are stolen as well (Easy enough to believe, get mugged, and there you go!), and you can't even get into your home for your Passport (If you're lucky enough to have *THAT*!).

In my wife's family there is an individual who took the name, SSN, and birth certificate of a young boy who died in infancy. We can't prove it but we think that he is running from the mob.

Identification exists for a reason, it helps stop criminals and such from taking advantage of people (as shadowrunners who lose their fake SINs will no doubt find). As with all systems created by man it has flaws. Yes it's really terrible what happened to that lady and so many other people (though I think it's important to note that there are still agencies willing to help her survive at least, Go Democracy!). But I sincerely believe that it's the lesser of two evils, as Shadowrun itself should point out.

As for requiring ID to vote, that's a pretty obvious one. Both to prevent multiple votes from the same person and to stop illegal immigrants from voting. Even though it's relatively easy to get a fake ID if you know the right people, it's enough trouble/danger/whatever that most people just won't do it.

Also, to Hyzmarca: Really? Are you really making a post about trusting people on a Shadowrun Forum?

Also to OP, nice example.

I nearly had this problem myself. I live in Australia, and I was home-educated. Which meant when I actually wanted to get some form of ID, I had a really hard time getting it. To get ID, you need other ID. To get a copy of my birth certificate, I needed ID of some sort... and I needed the ID to get the certificate. Total catch 22. I only got into the system because I convinced the local bank to make an account for me without any ID, on the basis that I'd been visiting the bank with my mother for 15 years, and thus probably existed. Having a bank account "proved" that I existed, and thus allowed me to get a copy of my birth certificate.

Ahh, the virtues and shortfalls of a system without any kind of centralized record-keeping.

Again, really only a problem for people who feel constrained by rules. Had you just sunk $400 for a quality printer and found a laminating machine, you could have gotten yourself settled in a fortnight.

Birth certificates aren't laminated. They do, however, have a raised textured seal imprinted in them with a rather simple machine. Reproducing these is a bitch and frankly not worth the effort. Stealing these, however, can be done.


I thought that Shadowrun clearly stated that it was the greater of two evils and that mutually beneficial cooperative individualist anarchism was the lesser evil.




Yes, it also makes it easier for the winner to send death squads to exterminate the people who voted against him.
This isn't a problem in most of the United States (I'd wouldn't tempt want to fate in some small towns), but requiring ID to vote does set a bad example for those parts of the world where El Presidente can be expected to send out death squads to kill whomever voted against him.

The form of fraud that is actually dangerous is fraud perpetrated by people in charge of counting the votes. This doesn't require circumventing and sort of safeguards, it just requires walking out of the counting room and saying that the person you want to win did, in fact win. This is most probable in small towns where are few people might wield a great deal of power and influence. A corrupt official in a small town can hijack the election process this way and though it tends to be blatant and obvious state and federal governments are notoriously reluctant to get involved in local politics.




Historically, such laws have been implemented for the sole purpose of preventing marginalized minorities from voting. Here in the American South, we used to have literacy tests and poll taxes to keep the negroes away from the ballots. You ingenious Canadians have found a way to prevent Muslims from voting without shipping them off to Cuba.



The purpose of requiring ID is, and always will be, to oppress certain segments of the population which the government considers to be inferior but not so inferior as to require summary extermination. In modern western capitalist societies, thus group consists of immigrants and the working class.

Here in Australia there's no requirement to present photo ID. At the last election (local, state and federal are all compulsory) I just rocked up, told the lady at the desk my name, she looked me up on a big printout of the local electoral role, asked me if my address was what it was, I said "yep, that's me, thanks", she ruled a neat line through it for computer recognition purposes, and I was done. It doesn't stop multiple votes, though most Aussies find it a big enough of a pain in the bum to vote once. As for illegal immigrants, they're not such a drama numbers wise here as some other places.

I also understand that our voting system is remarkably streamlined and efficient compared to, say, the U.S. (hard to believe that other places could be worse, given the rigmarole that goes on at election times). Voting, counting, and declaring the winner of a federal (or any) election typically happens all on the same day, so if you did want to try and scam a few extra votes you need to be quick about it .

(I was referring to making your own ID, not a birth certificate.)

ANYONE's election system is better than the USes!

That's why I like Canada's system. If you can't mark an "X" in a circle the size of a quarter with a pencil, you don't deserve to vote!

Whereas, in the US, you have... Florida.

Despite stories of people voting from beyond the grave I have a hard time believing that's even a problem.

It's pretty much impossible to do anything anymore without some form of legal identification which sucks for the poor and for those who weren't born in hospitals (the poor or the elderly). If a Crash 2.0 happened in RL, American society would be well and truly screwed. But then again I'd be tempted to go SINless! Work for cash, never pay taxes again, and be completely untraceable.

IDs aren't laminated, either, but are printed on PVC card stock.

you forgot: unable to rent an apartment, "special" civil rights, and sweatshop labour

Well, that would still be a question of qualification, connections and the amount of people without ID. It is simple enough to work around all that today in most places - usually done by 'illegals', but not exclusively.

And with a rising number of SINless, the amount of services to them would rise. Simply because there is money to be made.

I could get one of those sketchy studio apartments with the Korean immigrant landlord who always yells, "You pay rent! You pay rent now!"
I would invest in a good pair of running shoes in case the cops wanted to have a "conversation".
And I would make an excellent nanny!

Depends on the ID, doesn't it? I've seen plenty of school IDs which are laminated, and he said that's all he needs.

The AEC is like the gold standard of electoral bodies in the world. Every aspect of australia's electoral system is effectively managed compared to the clowns that run so many other countries. Did you know that in some US districts people had to queue for 8 hours? haha, 8 hours ahahaha, there major crying when people have to wait half and hour here. When wait times spiked out in victoria in some busy polling booths, there was an audit of what went wrong and much chewing of fingernails and recriminations of bad planning.

Voting fraud happens and happens right in the open. In the USA, you have about four million people disallowed from voting due to criminal convictions. According to this, in several states, one in four black people is forbidden to vote due to convictions. Florida is probably the most outstanding case due to its role in Bush's election. Amongst all the other voting irregularities that took place, this state permanently refuses the right to vote once a conviction has been secured. Given felony convictions correlate with poverty, the system is demonstrably biased against the poorest segments of society. (I haven't verified these figures, though. I welcome corrections.)

I also looked for but couldn't find, video footage of republican supporters physically breaking into a building to prevent a recount taking place / stop vote counting, though I do remember such seeing such a thing and would liked to have verified my memory.

In the UK, the recent Mayor of London elections are unverified. A friend has been ranting about this (summary - they used machine counting and couldn't show they were accurate, there were some reasons to believe that they weren't and the end result is an unverified election). It's not the worst abuse, but I might feel differently if I lived in London. Apparently there is some progress in preventing this from happening again, however. Don't know about the USA, though. For some reason, the USA is leading the world in unverifiable voting machines.

And lastly, if anyone hasn't seen this it's definitely worth a look.

K.

For a more serious look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WMG34cv0zM

The Onion is a parody site... aka not really... aka a joke...

She needs to come to North Carolina then. Apparently its freakishly easy for people without the proper documentation to get a drivers license. Just ask the drunk guy who crashed into my car and is facing deportation.

start worrying about the day when you cant tell the onion from the real news

I find that the onion has more content than Fox news.

-Chrysalis

See here we go again... Then I have to reply about how Fox News is the only major news with any journalistic integrity, then we are off topic and flirting with the Terms of Service.... Let's just keep this about Shadowrun...

Um, I know that. I posted it to add a little humour. You didn't really think I thought...

Though that said, they are making a very good point.

do such a thing (a news source with integrity) still exist? i thought it was all about eyeball and adds these days...

When a news source is owned by a corporate monolith (NewsCorp[Fox], Disney[ABC], General Electric[NBC], Viacom[CBS], Turner [CNN]) you have to question its integrity and objectivity. You can always check the BBC, CBC, and PBS/NPR for non-corp news but in the US there's a growing trend of citizen journalists and bloggers. Which was touched on a bit in the Seattle chapter of Runner Havens. Ha! Tied it back in to Shadowrun. I find the idea of playing a citizen journo-as-shadowrunner to be a fascinating idea.

Having seen similar posts where the poster was unaware and given the content of the rest of the post... no, I didn't think you were aware. No personal slight, just didn't know.

I actually have a character who sells partial details about his runs to an info broker in order to make the rent. He's in a low-ball, street level game trying to maintain a mid-lifestyle for him and his crew. He usually makes more from the information than the run itself... and much like the modern media, he censors the details before forwarding them on.

I work as an election judge. I can assure people that, at least in my state, those felony convictions only have right to complain if they're too lazy to lie (or cheat or whatever). Slackers.

On the flip side, do they even bother with elections in Shadowrun? I mean, if you're in Renraku, I'm sure the arcology has all sorts of giant adverts for their politician of choice, and can give incentives if he wins (they're extraterritorial, after all). And basically all of the big corps are going to support a select few people. So really, why even bother?

The two best news sources that I know (and use) currently are the British newspaper The Independent which probably isn't perfect, certainly omits the odd topic that I'd be interested in and has some dubious ideas on the part of two of their columnists (Tracy Emin is 100% ignorant, but only talks about herself so it doesn't matter. Dominic Lawson is about 63% ignorant but tries to talk about politics so it's worse), but is certainly better than any of the other British papers I know. The other, and extremely interesting news source, is Stratfor. I was a subscriber to these people for some time, though I lapsed and they put their prices up a bit since then. However, they gave what appeared to me very good analysis of world events. It was quite absorbing so long as you didn't allow yourself to pick up any of their morality-lite point of view. Because it's a paid service with an intended audience of businessmen and investors, it is greatly stripped of the cultural mind-control present in mainstream news sources. If you want to know what a presidential candidate stands for, you don't watch what they say at public rallies, you read what they said to their backers.