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Redjack
A couple of thoughts on Shadowslang/shadow-profanity. The language we use, even in games, pervade our lives and became an integral part of our vernacular. The two primary issues with this when considering profanity are that it is considered unprofessional to use profanity in general speech and that it creates a barrier to the inclusion of teenagers. Argue as I am sure some will, it does not change the fact that mild violence is more socially acceptable than profanity. As a business professional, I would rather avoid accidental slips caused by becoming desensitized to profanity in casual vocabulary.

Also, the point of 'like it or not it is part of the Shadowrun history' is completely valid. In the end, your game is your game and my game is my game. For my game, we don't feel the need to cuss like sailors to have a good time or 'feel the genre'; Shadowslang works just fine.

QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Sep 4 2008, 08:11 AM) *
You know, after 20 years of in-game time it might be time to make up some new shadow profanity. Oh snap, you doubleplus meatbag blenders!

I agree.... anybody else?
Sir_Psycho
I would definately prefer new slang than a completely unexplained and contrived retcon in an attempt to be "edgy". What's next? Orks calling eachother niggers?

I still use old slang, because I love it as game flavour. But I might be open to new slang.
Ancient History
It has been noted that the current crop of books have a bit of a potty-mouth flavor <display_sheepish>. Its not that we don't invent new slang and terminology (wait for Feral Cities), but no-one wants to overdo it. I for one would be open to some more sufficiently clever bits of slang.
NightmareX
I fully agree with Wes there. Personally I would rather see some integration between the "quaint" (as noted in Night's Pawn) present day slang/"swearing" and classic shadowslang. Because simply it is a fact that shadowslang was prevelent in SR society from (at the latest) '50 to '64. Likely earlier than '50 due to how long it would take for such slang to achieve saturation. Thus, I cannot help but see the current use of contemporary slang as a retro fad of sorts (save for Fastjack of course).

That said, Redjack does have a point about the use of having alternative "swear" words. It has in the past come in rather handy IRL for me even. Reflexively belting out a "frag", "drek", or even "poodoo" tends not to have the same effects as the real thing at work, and is oddly satisfying like one has gotten away with something. Juvenile a bit I suppose, but meh wobble.gif

Lastly though, applying a liberal peppering of fucks, shits, etc doesn't make material more compelling, more intelligent, or more mature regardless of what popular culture would seem to think. It sure as hell didn't work for White Wolf.
Murrdox
In my game we use (or I use, I'm still encouraging my players) various Shadowslang and custom curse words.

I've always liked "drek". It flows off the tongue nicely, and works well as an expletive.

"Frag" I'm not so hot on, I just usually use the english "F" word.

I know a few Japanese words, so I try to use those in some dialog, mostly higher-class individuals. A random NPC in the barrens is more likely to say "Yo" than "Konichiwa".
It trolls!
QUOTE (Murrdox @ Sep 4 2008, 05:00 PM) *
I've always liked "drek". It flows off the tongue nicely, and works well as an expletive.

"Frag" I'm not so hot on, I just usually use the english "F" word.


Same here. Maybe it is because in German "Dreck" actually is also a valid curseword. The reason I don't like "Frag" all that much is bthat it reads like FASA had tried to make the books more appropriate for children (which was probably the reason).
Apart from that, please feel free to invent some new slang and please add a "Seven words you can't say on Trid" fluff piece to the corresponding sourcebook!
Redjack
QUOTE (It trolls! @ Sep 4 2008, 10:00 AM) *
Apart from that, please feel free to invent some new slang and please add a "Seven words you can't say on Trid" fluff piece to the corresponding sourcebook!
That rules! (and a fitting tribute as well).
Wesley Street
It all depends on the tone of your game and what you consider acceptable in-game behavior. Some games are your classic-good-clean-fun style, some are more gritty. It's whatever the group is comfortable with. I had a DM drop an in-game, in-character f-bomb during a D&D session. Though I'm an adult who has used profanity in anger or pain or jest, I was a little shocked and didn't care for it. It broke the mood. In terms of SR, I personally would have trouble GMing for a PC who followed a toxic or blood magic path of magic or was a serial killer rapist. It's too twisted for my taste.

That said I can't think of more than twice when in a SR4 rulebook or supplement a contemporary "R-rated" profanity was used. I'm sure there have been more but they must have not stuck out in my mind. Reaction against it seems overblown. It raised an eyebrow but it didn't particularly bother me. I'm of the mindset of where, "Well, you are playing a game where traditionally you're a professional criminal. Slang and profanity are part of the landscape. And if I had kids I wouldn't want them playing this game at all until they hit high school, neutered speech or not."

R-rated profanity has been around for centuries and I don't realistically see it disappearing from the vocabulary of the populace in 50-70 years time. That said, I can see new slang and terms being introduced; drek, frag, hoop, whatever. I listen to hip-hop music and I learn new street slang all the time. "Skeet skeet skeet" didn't seem all that bad... until I found out what it really meant. But I don't see new terms replacing the old; merely complementing them.

If I was developing this game line I would tell my writers, "If you want to use contemporary profanity in your characters' speech that's fine. Just make sure it fits the tone. Hobgoblin is shaping up as a bit of a blue-collar twat but the rest of the regular shadowposters tend to be level headed, educated and intelligent. And if you are going to use profanity, mix it up a bit with either the retro-future-slang from earlier editions along with any foreign slang you see creeping into the vocabularies of the time period." British slang and profanity is a good pool to pull from (toerag, tosser, wanker, slag, bollocks, shite, arse, piece of piss) as are Chinese (Firefly's a good example) and Japanese (kusottare! yariman! manko!). Orwellian Newspeak is another good source. We're globalizing as a culture and that should show in a 2070s time period. I say "bollocks" all the time and I'm from Indiana! smile.gif

My GM philosophy on this is: Don't say anything that would be racially inflammatory in real-life but if you want to mock the Flava-Flav (yeaaaaah, boyeee!) and cracker redneck cultures, go for it. Also, don't drop in random foreign phrases when a character is speaking English (ex: a Cuban woman shouting "Ai, papi!"). That's a lazy writer's trick to show ethnicity and is mildly insulting.
BRodda
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Sep 4 2008, 10:48 AM) *
I would definately prefer new slang than a completely unexplained and contrived retcon in an attempt to be "edgy". What's next? Orks calling eachother niggers?

I still use old slang, because I love it as game flavour. But I might be open to new slang.


In my game street orks use Tolkien as a reference for their slang, I did a big post about it a while ago.

It made a lot more sense considering one of the biggest trog gangs were the Sons of Soron.

As for swear words, I don't have a lot of them as cursing is back in vogue in my setting.

So its not "F#$% you!" its "May a Shediem find your cooling body!" or "May the bugs take a fancy to you!"

It is dramatic and colorful. It also ties into "snap" contests; expletives show that you are stupid and unimaginative.
The ubbergeek
The classic slang have a taste, but as quoted, you have to admit... It sounded like mellow, light censoring. And there is quite a few rpers who found it... lame, frankly.


Same remark toward D&D's infamous Planescape Cant, albeit it have a more historic (based on real ancient english slangs), fantasy bent.
Ancient History
What's the average Dumpshocker's reaction to the term "scut" for a person of either gender who engages in prolific and undiscerning sexual relations with multiple partners?
BRodda
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 4 2008, 12:58 PM) *
What's the average Dumpshocker's reaction to the term "scut" for a person of either gender who engages in prolific and undiscerning sexual relations with multiple partners?


I don't like it. We tend to refer to people like that as "Plug and Play" or a "Universal (Input/Output)"
Ol' Scratch
I prefer just using standard profanity. But then I prefer my games to be more Tarantino-ish than Winnie the Pooh-ish.

Even when new slang terms come up in the real world, they usually fade away like a fad after a few years as the classics come back into vogue. I don't see that changing any time soon, especially now that the entire world is communicating on a regular basis.

That's not to say that I don't use some of the quaint-by-2070 slang of older editions with my characters, both PC and NPC. It's just that when a situation really calls for profanity, as opposed for mere emphasis, the standard profanity comes spewing out. I rarely envision one of my characters having the presence of mind to censor himself with a "frag" when he gets shot in the chest anymore than I see myself saying "gosh darn it" when I get extremely frustrated in the real world.
Chrysalis
I would feel you are more Scottish grandma than street credible if you were to use a word like scut.

Zoyne is far more disrespectful.

-Chrysalis
paws2sky
This issue seems to come up just about every other time I discuss the old SR and the new. Count me among the crowd that is a bit turned off by the so-called "potty mouth" phenomena in SR4. I'd be all in favor of seeing some new "canon" shadowslang.

You know, I always liked reading the shadowslang, but it seems like we rarely used it in game. It was more interesting reading things like frag and drek instead of fuck and shit.

In a similar light, I find things like Firefly/Serenity's approach to cursing to be very clever: do it in another language. They don't use it enough to make the characters seem truly bilingual, but they certainly seem to have picked up some choice swearing and insults from Chinese. smile.gif

As a side note: I've sought to cut the ED/SR connection in my games, going so far as to rule that Or'zet and Sperethial are derived from two real world artificial languages - Klingon and Quenya, respectively. Most of my players (the ones who care) get a chuckle out of it and it reinforces a running theme of my games that the future is heavily recycled (fashion, slang, fads, furniture, etc.).

-paws
K M Faust
I don't want to give the impression that Shadowslang doesn't appeal to my adventurous side, I'm just thinking of (like FarScape, a show I hold dear to my heart, but used slang a lot in each episode) where to draw the line so it's not the main focus of each adventure. Over use can become abuse. cyber.gif
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 4 2008, 01:58 PM) *
What's the average Dumpshocker's reaction to the term "scut" for a person of either gender who engages in prolific and undiscerning sexual relations with multiple partners?

Indifferent. Sounds like British rhyme slang or something from A Clockwork Orange. My droogies.
QUOTE
Zoyne is far more disrespectful.

If you're a superstitious Greek throwing rocks at a pregnant teenager. Doesn't quite have the punch in the West.
TeOdio
"Why you go around cussin all the time? Save those words for when you really angry, that way people know your're serious." Attributed to Socrates, ex con philosopher in Always Outnumbered, Always Out Gunned. I feel that there is a difference in profanity and slang. The same profane words used today will more than likely be the same profane words we use in 2070. I would guess with the rise of city speak, the Aztlan resurgence, and Japan cultural exportation, profanity from Japanese and Spanish origins would creep into the shadows as well. Slang changes from generation to generation. Go and watch any "gangster" movie from the 30's and 40's. They are riddled with slang we don't use today. A lot of slang is only used by certain groups. An Alamos 20K cell made up of spoiled corp brats is gonna speak very differently than a group of inner city Sons of Sauron orks, yet they may be talking about the same things. Even careers and hobbies carry their own slang terms. Who here knows what a twink and a munchkin are? Try telling the high school jock he is a twink because he spends so much time in the gym maxing out his strength attribute and he's gonna show you how twink he is. I generally don't use slang in running my games because frankly, I don't want to come off seeming like an idiot. If I feel one of my players is "not in tune" with the person they are talking to due to pervasive slang, I just tell he or she they are having a hard time making out what the person is saying. One thing I can use with confidence is occasional profanity. It is always understood.
nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif
Beetle
I find my group tends to mix up standard SR slang and regular old cursing. I have noticed a lot lately that "Frel, Frak, and Smeg" are all the four letter words I really need. They are quite versatile.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Sep 4 2008, 01:13 PM) *
I would feel you are more Scottish grandma than street credible if you were to use a word like scut.

Zoyne is far more disrespectful.

-Chrysalis

QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Sep 4 2008, 02:43 PM) *
Indifferent. Sounds like British rhyme slang or something from A Clockwork Orange. My droogies.

If you're a superstitious Greek throwing rocks at a pregnant teenager. Doesn't quite have the punch in the West.

We could always bastardize words like these. Both nadsat and swear words from foreign languages could be legitimate. It might seem contrived, but when you think about it, words go in and out of fashion all the time, and when some sim-star with a penchant for old flatvids watches Clockwork Orange and then drops Horrorshow in an interview, that kind of thing can catch on pretty quick. Also, Horizon is probably behind it all.

Here's a list I've got on my computer (No idea where from)


Angel n. A benefactor, especially an unknown one.
Arc n. An arcology.
Breeder n. Ork slang for a "normal" Human.
Business n. In slang context, crime, Also "Biz."
Buzz Go away. Buzz off.
Chipped adj. Senses, skills, reflexes, muscles, and so on, enhanced by cyberware.
Chummer n. "Pal" or "Buddy".
Comm n. The telephone.
Corp nl, adj. Corporation. Corporate
Dandelion Eater n., adj. Elf or elven. Highly Insulting.
Dataslave n. Corporate decker or other data processing employee.
Datasteal n. Theft of data from a computer, usually by decking.
Deck n. A cyberdeck. v. To use a cyberdeck, usually illegally.
Decker n. Pirate cyberdeck user. Derived from 20th-centery term "Hacker".
Deckhead n. Simsense abuser; anyone with a datajack or chipjack.
Drek n. (vul) A common curse word. adj: Drekky
Dumped v. Involuntarily ejected from the Matrix.
Exec v. Corporate executive.
Fetishman n. A talismonger.
Frag v. Common swear word. adj: Fragging.
Geek v. To kill.
Go-go-go n. A bike gang or gang member.
Heatwave n. Police crackdown.
Hoi Hi Hello. (Familiar form)
Hose v. Louse up. Screw up.
Ice n. Security software. "Intrusion Countermeasures," or IC.
Jack v. Jack In, or enter cyberspace. Jack out, or to leave cyberspace.
Jander v. To walk in an arrogant yet casual manner; to strut.
Kobun n. (Jap) Member of a Yakuza clan.
Mr. Johnson n. Refers to an anonymous employer or corporate agent.
Mundane n. adj. (vul) Non-magician or non-magical.
Nutrisoy n. Cheaply processed food product, derived from soybeans
Nuyen n. World standard of currency.
Oyabun n. (Jap) Head of a Yakuza clan.
Panzer n. Any ground-effect combat vehicle.
Paydata n. A datafile worth money on the black market.
Plex n. A metropolitan complex, or "metroplex".
Poli n. A policlub or policlub member.
Razorguy n. Heavily cybered samurai or other muscle.
Samurai n. (Jap) Mercenary or muscle for hire. Implies honor code.
Sarariman n. (Jap) From "salaryman." A corporate employee.
Screamer n. Credstick or other ID that triggers computer alarms if used.
Seoul Man n. A member of a Seoulpa ring.
Seoulpa ring n. A small criminal gang with connections to others like it.
Shaikujin n. (Jap) Lit. "Honest citizen." A corporate employee.
Simsense n. ASIST sensory broadcast or recording.
Slot v. Mild curse word.
Slot and Run v. Hurry up. Get to the point. Move it. Emphysema
So ka (Jap) I understand. I get it.
Soykaf n. Ersatz coffee substitute made from soybeans.
Sprawl n. a metroplex (see Plex); v. fraternize below one's social level.
Suit n A "straight citizen." See Shaikujin, Sarariman.
System Identification Number (SIN) n. Identification number assigned to each person in the society.
Trid n. Three-dimensional successor to video.
Trog n. (vul) An Ork or Troll. From "troglodyte." Highly insulting.
Vatjob n. A person with extensive cyberware replacement, reference is to a portion of the process during which the patient must be submerged in nutrient fluid.
Wagemage n. A magician (usually mage) employed by a corporation.
Wetwork n. Assassination. Murder.
Wired adj. Equipped with cyberware, especially increased reflexes.
Wizard n. A magician, usually a mage; adj. gear, wonderful, excellent.
Wizworm n. slang. A dragon.
Yak n. (Jap) Yakuza. Either a clan member or a clan itself.
sunnyside
Right now I use a blend of slang and the real thing.

I think the trick is that curse words have to "work".

Some do and some don't.

Drek works well.

Also smeg and gorram work well, so I may try and incorporate them at some point.


Any foreign language equivalents for the F-bomb? That seems to be the hardest to get right.

Hmmm playing with babel fish (which may translate for the sex angle more than the curse)

French - Baise
German - Bumsen
Italian - Scopata
Portugeese - Foda

While Bumsen is kinda funny and Foda might work I don't know if I'm feeling them so much.


Caine Hazen
Also remember slang tends to to shift in time. In fact considering the 20 year gap, lots of those "edgy hip" new pieces of slang that were being used (cause anyone could say fuck..it was old hat) are now seen as old and stale by the new youth. Perfect way to pick out the old timer or person not "hip to the lingo". Your children are not going to use the slang you do, and most first ed 2050 characters should be getting into their late 30s to early 40s now. I always think n it from that perspective, and note that by the time 2090 rolls around, that the cursing should have shifted again.
sunnyside
Specific slang shifts. But the "core" curse words have been the same for, well, I dunno. A long freaking time.
MJBurrage
Given the perseverance of fuck and shit as curse words in the English language (a millennium or so) they are not going away anytime soon, and they fit the criminal types of the Shadowrun world. Having said that I also like and sometimes miss frag, drek, etc.

I have always assumed that frag and drek made their way to Seattle via city-speak, and that assumption seems to fit with their decline at the same time that the retro-punk culture of the '40s and '50s has declined.
Blade
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Sep 5 2008, 05:00 AM) *
Any foreign language equivalents for the F-bomb? That seems to be the hardest to get right.

Hmmm playing with babel fish (which may translate for the sex angle more than the curse)

French - Baise
German - Bumsen
Italian - Scopata
Portugeese - Foda

While Bumsen is kinda funny and Foda might work I don't know if I'm feeling them so much.


I don't know for the others, but in French we don't use "Baise" (which is the translation for the "having sex" meaning). We have a lot of curse words (and after hearing a lot of foreigners using English curse words, I'm proud of it), but I think that the best one to replace "fuck", according to the use, would be "merde" (shit) or "putain" (means prostitute literally, but is used as a "generic" curse word).
Chrysalis
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Sep 4 2008, 10:43 PM) *
Indifferent. Sounds like British rhyme slang or something from A Clockwork Orange. My droogies.

If you're a superstitious Greek throwing rocks at a pregnant teenager. Doesn't quite have the punch in the West.



Well scut comes Scots and is something you still hear up in the Hebrides of someone who is 24 and still lives at home or someone working a menial job. It basically means loser or good-for-nothing. You can also call objects on things scut. As in "my car is scutted" or "for fuck sake I am not doing your scut work."

Zoyne is Yiddish from the Hebrew for harlot.

I still think that the worst thing I can think of is being a "Le Puta negra"


Wesley Street
New for 2070:

TT1C n. abrv. Two Trolls, One Cup Any overtly sexual and/or disgusting ARO a hacker deliberately places in a node. See also Teetee Onsies.
Goatsed adv. A descriptor for any hacker who opens a TT1C ARO by accident.

Slamm-O left behind a little calling card in the security spider's Matrix web and the poor corporate hacker was goatsed by a TT1C.
sunnyside
By the way in case any of you don't know goatse is actually a current internet meme sort of thing. Um. You can look into it if you want.

But it'll result in some TT1C showing up on screen. grinbig.gif
KCKitsune
You know the guy who does (or use to do) Fear Factor watched that and was COMPLETELY disgusted by it... and he's seen some sick crap.
Little Johnson
I have to say as someone thats been out of SR since SR1 i was a little supprised by the swearing. not offended but supprised.

I know id not let my 12 year old read the book with out a talk first about the swearing.

but then again my daughter thinks crap is a swear word
Wesley Street
Crap was worthy of detention when I was in junior high. But, then again, I didn't go to an inner city school.
Sir_Psycho
The problem with saying that "fuck" and "shit" have been used for a long time is that while the words don't dissapear from the lexicon, they lose impact. For example, saying the word "Damn" or "Goddamn" or "Hell" used to be a really big deal. By blaspheming you were showing you were a bad-arse who wasn't afraid of nobody, God included.

Anyone ever watch Deadwood? The writers and producers decided to use contemporary swearwords (a whole lot, "cock sucker" is said roughly 400+ times in the first season alone) to give viewers the feel of just how lawless and morally bankrupt the Black Hills community were.

I think that by 2070, people will still say "fuck", but the kids will say it like they say "damn" today, or even "darn". That's why I like Shadowrun slang. It doesn't feel like censorship, it feels like a whimsical progression, and I can sustain my sense of disbelief. And people do come up with random offensive words in modern times. I remember jokingly bringing a girl to much frustration by suggesting that she was into "snowballing". In an accelerated culture, both in the mainstream and counter-culture, I can see words like "frag" and "drek" becoming offensive, especially if used by a creative and vitriolic pornomancer smile.gif.
Wesley Street
Fuck (earliest writings in 1495 from fokken) and shit (earliest usage 1585 from scitten [which is also linguistically related to the words ski and dissect (thank you Snow Crash)]) have been the exception in swearing. They're centuries old and they've always been socially unacceptable words (or at least words one doesn't use in polite company) despite what hip-hop culture might make one think. Damn (to condemn) and hell (the devil's stomping ground) aren't profane unless screamed in frustration (ie: God damn you!). The f-word and s-word have always been naughty/lower-class.

If I recall, Swearengen was the only user of cock sucker in Deadwood and that, like you said, was to emphasize his moral depravity in conjunction with his sheer intellect. Oh, and Wu, but he was just imitating; "Cooock Sukka!"

If my theoretical children used fuck in my presence they would be looking at a sore bottom. But they wouldn't be playing Shadowrun either. They can play D&D and slay dragons and be happy halflings riding unicorns.
Sir_Psycho
Almost all of them, with the exception of perhaps the newspaper man, used the word cock sucker. Especially Calamity Jane, Swearengen, Cy Tolliver, Trixie, Dan Dority, The Nigger General, Hostetler, Steve, and the list goes on. Even the Sherriff and Doc Cochran used the word.

Funnily enough, Deadwood has been a family activity for me. This was all fine and Dandy, until my mother got carried away and started calling our local video store clerks cocksuckers whenever hiring out the next deadwood disc. The worst of these times was when I had a female friend who had never met my mum and never seen or heard about Deadwood came around. I saw my mum had a pot of tea and I casually remarked 'Gee, why didn't you make me and Jayne some tea, huh?' and my mum shouted back 'Make your own damn tea, cock-sucka!'

Needless to say, I came back into the kitchen and Jayne was standing there wild eyed, thinking my mum actually talked like that.

However, unlike your theoretical children, my parents have always supported me using profanity in the correct circumstance and context.
paws2sky
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Sep 5 2008, 01:15 PM) *
Anyone ever watch Deadwood? The writers and producers decided to use contemporary swearwords (a whole lot, "cock sucker" is said roughly 400+ times in the first season alone) to give viewers the feel of just how lawless and morally bankrupt the Black Hills community were.


It struck me as cussing for the sake of cussing, which is just tired and annoying. It also tops my list of Reasons I Don't Like Deadwood. If they wanted shock value, the conclusion of the marshal vs lynch mob scene in the first episode was much more effective, IMO.

-paws
Wesley Street
I stand corrected though Swearegen was immediately who popped into my head as he was the greatest abuser. And somehow I don't see your mum calling the cashier at the supermarket a "cocksucker" in casual conversation. Unless she was in the merchant marines. wink.gif Though I'm sure the video store clerk got the little joke.

I live in the US. We are arrested for showing our breasts in public. Swearing is considered only a little less worse than that as it's "Un-Christian like" behavior. We are repressed.
wind_in_the_stones
You can make up a word, and tell everybody that's it's the worst word you could say to someone, but when you call them one to their face, the player won't really feel it. He could have his player react accordingly, but you really want your fellow players to feel what's going on.

Hearing bad language in the game doesn't really do much to me. But I still know which words are bad (ratfucker!), and which words are not so bad (darn you!). There are a lot of made-up swear words in the present day, (frikkin' frak!), and the Shadowrun curses sound just like them (frag!). So I think we might as well use the real ones.

My group doesn't really get future stuff. Whenever I try to make up some kind of image of the future, they look at me like I'm high. They don't even laugh at me and play along anyway - it really short-circuits the game. The most they can handle is taking something that's a little extreme in the present, and making it more commonplace. So that's one more point against Shadowrun slang.

On the other hand, something that seems to work well, is to work things from teh sixth world into existing profanity. Like "devil rat fucker!" Okay, maybe not that one...
Sir_Psycho
No offense meant at all, but it sounds like your group aren't really made for shadowrun if they act with incredulity at "future stuff".

QUOTE (Wes)
I live in the US. We are arrested for showing our breasts in public. Swearing is considered only a little less worse than that as it's "Un-Christian like" behavior. We are repressed.

It's funny that. Here in australia, most of our vulgarity (at least in our urban centres) are complete Americanisms. For example, most people I know say "ass" instead of "arse", we use words like "jerk" that were acculturated through a saturation of American media and programming on all of our commercial television stations. We even use the single finger rude gesture as opposed to the traditionally british two fingered flipping gesture.

It's funny that most of our pop culture is your pop culture, (yet it's amusing to note the cultural stereotype of "stupid americans" being the ones who are uncultured) although you could argue we are less repressed. There's a new feature out called "Not Quite Hollywood", about Australian genre films like Razorback and The Man From Hong Kong which were infamous for their nudity and violence and dangerously low production values and professionalism. Also, I'm pretty sure no-one in any American analogue of our parliament could get away with saying eachother have gone "troppo" and calling fellow parliamentarians "pineapple heads". In fact, a politician here in Australia recently got in a bit of trouble for sniffing a female members seat. Some-one caught a photo of it, I recall, and it was all over the papers.
HeavyMetalYeti
How about starting a new list of 2070 slang and/or vulgarities. Just post em here.

imperialus
I tend to switch back and forth between modern swears and shadowslang fairly frequently. Generally I just type whatever 'feels' right, using shadowslang for more everyday stuff and modern cussing for anything with more emotion behind it.

Here's an example from my PBP game from earlier today.

QUOTE
After a few minutes of banging on the bars a troll emerges and eyes Mongol suspiciously. Pursing his lips Mongol tries to emulate the actor from an Orksploitation sim he saw last night and says.

"Hoi Chummer! Can ya open da gate? I gots a meet at Busta Kaps dat I needs ta get ta yo!" He also raises his fist in a gesture that the sim suggested was a greeting among Orks and Trolls in Seattle.

Rolling his eyes the troll says in Orzet "You tryin' to be a fucking comedian? Frag off!"

Surprised at the rebuff, Mongol shakes his head and replies in Orzet "No... no comedian... I'm sorry. I am new to Seattle." pushing his comlink through the bars of the gate "See, I need to meet someone named Ivan for work at Busta Kaps. This is the only way into the underground I know. I came through two days ago with MilSpec."

shaking his head slightly the troll mutters "God damn tourists" to himself before opening the gate and letting Mongol in. After an awkward moment Mongol finally asks.

"Um... could you please give me directions?"

"Fucking hell! Don't you know anything? Just a second. As the troll disappears down a darkened passageway Mongol calls after him
Snow_Fox
we've always been careful with language
when we started there were parents listening in, now there are children listening in.

Frag and drek still work.

an old favorte "Mother puss bucket!"

big words work only so far- 'you ambulatory pile of rat droppings' after someone's daughter picked up the word 'profalactics' and proudly told it to her mommy. but there are the old fall backs. I liek them. there are classics and I don't mean the '7 words' and we're not doing heck/fudge/shoot but real classics.
and if youdon't like 'em, all I can say is Frak you!
Cain
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Sep 4 2008, 09:32 PM) *
Given the perseverance of fuck and shit as curse words in the English language (a millennium or so) they are not going away anytime soon, and they fit the criminal types of the Shadowrun world. Having said that I also like and sometimes miss frag, drek, etc.

As Wesley Street pointed out, this is completely wrong. Both words have been around for about 500 years, which isn't really that long. There are plenty of words in the English language that are derived from Latin or Greek; they've been around a whole heck of a lot longer.

As for me, I find that the Shadowrun swear words do wonders for reminding people that they're not in Kansas anymore. It's easy to think that because Shadowrun is set in the future of our world, it *is* our world, with a few things added on.
Smed
QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 6 2008, 03:47 PM) *
As for me, I find that the Shadowrun swear words do wonders for reminding people that they're not in Kansas anymore. It's easy to think that because Shadowrun is set in the future of our world, it *is* our world, with a few things added on.


+1. I wouldn't mind seeing some new slang show up, but the game's use of different slang words is one of the things that sets it up that its not just the present day world with magic and different races added in.
MJBurrage
QUOTE (Cain @ Sep 6 2008, 03:47 PM) *
As Wesley Street pointed out, this is completely wrong. Both words have been around for about 500 years, which isn't really that long. There are plenty of words in the English language that are derived from Latin or Greek; they've been around a whole heck of a lot longer.
As for me, I find that the Shadowrun swear words do wonders for reminding people that they're not in Kansas anymore. It's easy to think that because Shadowrun is set in the future of our world, it *is* our world, with a few things added on.
While the spelling f-u-c-k may only be datable to just over 500 years ago, its usage is older, and may date to Roman times. The non-written history of shit is equally hard to pin down exactly due to the size of the applicable written record, and that verbal curses are not recorded in writing in the same way as other things (especially before printing). So we know the usage is older than 500, possibly much much older, hence my use of the more general millennium, rather than a more specific claim.

Regardless, these words are not going away anytime soon.
Cain
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Sep 6 2008, 01:05 PM) *
While the spelling f-u-c-k may only be datable to just over 500 years ago, its usage is older, and may date to Roman times. The non-written history of shit is equally hard to pin down exactly due to the size of the applicable written record, and that verbal curses are not recorded in writing in the same way as other things (especially before printing). So we know the usage is older than 500, possibly much much older, hence my use of the more general millennium, rather than a more specific claim.

That dating of the words is highly debatable, and the usage of the words is unknown. It's highly possible that the words weren't in common usage until much, much later. People using "f-u-c-k" in Roman times as a common swear word is highly debatable, as even the first usages were nouns. At any event, it's been established that the first use in writing was around 500 years ago, and they weren't considered nearly as vulgar as they are now.

As for rather or not they'll go away: the word "Damn" is much older, and has had higher usage, dating back to Latin and Greek times. When Clark Gable said: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn", the nation was scandalized. Nowadays? You don't hear the word very often, if at all.
Rad
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Sep 4 2008, 10:58 AM) *
What's the average Dumpshocker's reaction to the term "scut" for a person of either gender who engages in prolific and undiscerning sexual relations with multiple partners?


Has a nice ring to it. Phonetically similar to "slut", but the (I'm assuming) hard C gives gives it more of an edge and makes it sound more forceful. Even better if it's got ties in an actual word with similar meaning. Borrowing expletives from random other languages is a time-honored cultural phenomenon.

Shadowrun slang never really bothered me, in fact I use Frag quite a bit in real life. I think the biggest problem people have with that word is that it sounds like (and may be) a kitschy replacement for Fuck. Personally, I see it as coming from Frag Grenades, and being a reference to extreme death, violence and destruction.

Frag You
This is really Fragged up
Frag Your Mother
Go Frag Yourself
That fragging drekhead
ect.

Kinda puts a new spin on it, huh?

Phonetics are very important in swear words, because it's not just what the word means, but also the way the sound of it hits your ear. Frag definitely loses a step to Fuck since it lacks the hard consonants, but to anyone in the sixth world I think it would immediately conjure the image of an exploding frag grenade throwing shrapnel around the room--and that imagery's got a lot of punch to it.

Drek's got it's ties with Dreck, and so feels like a gutterpunk's sarcastic parody of the corporate elite.

Honestly, "hoop" is the only SR swear word that still sounds silly to me, but when you consider the possibilities of such terms as "hoopsnake", it might stick around simply because it's a "ninja-swear": Doesn't sound that bad but is hillarious when you know what it means.

There's nothing quite so amusing as cussing someone out using words that don't immediately register as insulting. Great way to mess with the corporate stiffs.
MJBurrage
Was it ever bad to use damn regardless of context? My understanding is that it is only a curse in certain usage. Any word that is okay to use in one context, but not another, would be a lot easier to water down through over-exposure. The "F-word", is considered so bad that you could get in trouble even for using it in an academic discussion, hence the widely known euphemism. That puts it in a whole different class than damn.
Rad
I think damn was originally more of a genuine verb (ie: Damn you, You damnable fiend, ect) and eventually devolved into a swear word. Bear in mind that most swears are somewhat distanced from their literal meaning--something George Carlin pointed out. Words like damn are also tied to their religious context, and as that religion wanes or becomes taken less seriously, so do the the swear words associated with it. Being damned is a Big Deal to a christian, being fucked is a big deal to everybody.

Also, I just noticed this:

QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Sep 5 2008, 09:16 PM) *
We even use the single finger rude gesture as opposed to the traditionally british two fingered flipping gesture.


There's a two fingered version? I'm familiar with the Italian full-forearm variety, but hadn't heard of this one. Please describe. rotfl.gif
Not of this World
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Sep 6 2008, 02:59 PM) *
Was it ever bad to use damn regardless of context?


In my grandmother's time it was the worst cuss word one could use and brought down the wrath of the holy church (long before Oregon became one of the least churched states in the U.S.). The F word was girly giggles partially because it was bad, but mostly just because it was such an odd word to use. There are other words that were forbidden for my parents that they now use regularly. Suck was also a nasty pejorative to my grandmother but has become passe and I was used by my parents to use it. These days you have to stretch it out to "Cock Sucker" to get any reaction but it is already becoming common parlance with the current college crowd thanks to its shock value.

Hollywood has really had a major impact on the way the whole word curses. They're speeding up the cycling of cuss words and making it more universal. In the Middle-East the only two words of English I was sure every arab knew was the F word and Nigar thanks to U.S. movies. They're hardly swear words but more kewl american words to use. It was always amusing to explain in detail exactly what they meant since Qarid and Keleb are harsh swear-insults in Arabic (Ape and Dog).

That is just to solve the realism argument.

But the two biggest reasons to use some form of Shadowslang is simply for storyline continuity and to keep the game family friendly in the game stores that NEED to sell it.
MJBurrage
QUOTE (Rad @ Sep 6 2008, 06:28 PM) *
There's a two fingered version? I'm familiar with the Italian full-forearm variety, but hadn't heard of this one. Please describe. rotfl.gif
The two fingered version is chiefly British and is popularly thought to date back to English archers waving the fingers used to draw a bow at their French enemies circa 1415.
It is the victory sign but with your palm towards you instead of away.
See V sign as an insult for more details.
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