Dumori
Sep 5 2008, 10:06 PM
Bah I think they would just stop watching this place. Every other post would flag something up XD.
knasser
Sep 5 2008, 10:20 PM
QUOTE (Dumori @ Sep 5 2008, 11:06 PM)

Bah I think they would just stop watching this place. Every other post would flag something up XD.
The aim of a government body is to perpetuate itself and increase funding. There are few exceptions to this.
Or to put it another way: when you're being paid to solve a problem rather than being paid for having solved a problem, there is little incentive to achieve success.
-Khadim
"Let's Add an Arab to their List of Reasons" Nasser.
Stahlseele
Sep 5 2008, 10:21 PM
if that were how i get paid, i'd be generating problems left and . . . oooooh! o.o
D Minor
Sep 5 2008, 11:38 PM
QUOTE
As to different age groups, I think it's seriously the case that there should be more mixing of different age groups. Yes - we game within our peer groups and they tend to be of our own age for various reasons, but if you look at the spread above, you can see the risk for the hobby of having too much concentration within a particular age group. When you reach my sort of age, there is a lot less free time for most of us due to families. And even if you don't have a family, you find that a lot of your friends do so it still affects you. And inevitably people drop out of the hobby for a while so if you don't get more fresh blood coming in than you have old blood going out, well that's the end of Shadowrun
Knasser, Do it dude. I sarted playing DD when i was 12. By 15, me and my buddy were youngest at the table buy 6,7 years( the group ranged from 41 to 21). Without playing with those guys and gals I would have givin up on Rpg's a long time ago.
So now I'm taking my own advice, I'm going to complete the metaplot I've been tossing around between my ears and taking my dice to the local gaming shop to see if I can't ween some of the kids off the trading cards.
Grimreaper500
Sep 6 2008, 12:00 AM
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Sep 5 2008, 07:51 PM)

Ok the w thing would be cute... Except you're a dude right?
You never know your luck love, you never know

.
Ye im a dude and if I didn't know better you where trying to chat me up.
You Peter File (didnt know how to spell paedophile)
-The Grim-
sunnyside
Sep 6 2008, 02:34 AM
QUOTE (Grimreaper500 @ Sep 5 2008, 07:00 PM)

You never know your luck love, you never know

.
Ye im a dude and if I didn't know better you where trying to chat me up.
You Peter File (didnt know how to spell paedophile)
-The Grim-
No. I'm happily married with a child.... like a bunch of the people here it would seem.
I guess I'm trying to get a handle on the new "youth culture".
Stuff like
QUOTE (Grimreaper500)
*Pouts*
pwerfect (w is intended)
confuzlcated
Aren't things I recognize. At least in regards to a guy saying/typing them.
hmmm I'm worried that could be construed as critical. It's not. I'm just curious what you whipper snappers are up to these days.
And I'm starting to get concerned that some of the guys "back in my day" that took up gaming might be prone in todays culture to going emo or something.
Do emos game?
masterofm
Sep 6 2008, 03:09 AM
Started playing when I was... gee 11 or 12 with D&D, then moved into some other table tops some sci fi some swashbuckling (although those few sessions sucked hardcore.) Then I LARPed once or twice then gave that up quickly and stopped when I finished high school. D&Ded for one or two sessions and have now been in an SR group for a year, year and a half. I am 25, and engaged to a wonderful lady.
wind_in_the_stones
Sep 6 2008, 03:36 AM
Interesting that (at this early moment) there are 44 people in their thirties, and only seven of us are in our forties. It seems like when this game came out, cyberpunk was at its height, and I was into it. In addition, I was still big into gaming, though it was on its decline. I guess it's a matter of most of us old-timers moving on to other pursuits (like families and homes). I do consider myself fortunate to have been able to play this game fairly continuously, since it came out.
Half my group is about 40 or 41, and the other half are about 31 or 32.
CanRay
Sep 6 2008, 03:40 AM
Just missed the 30-range.
Damn, where did the years go?
knasser
Sep 6 2008, 07:36 AM
QUOTE (D Minor @ Sep 6 2008, 12:38 AM)

Knasser, Do it dude. I sarted playing DD when i was 12. By 15, me and my buddy were youngest at the table buy 6,7 years( the group ranged from 41 to 21). Without playing with those guys and gals I would have givin up on Rpg's a long time ago.
So now I'm taking my own advice, I'm going to complete the metaplot I've been tossing around between my ears and taking my dice to the local gaming shop to see if I can't ween some of the kids off the trading cards.
You know, I think I will. There's a University near me and I can stick a message on a board up there, I'm sure. I would totally run a game for a younger crowd again, but I don't know anyone under seventeen socially and have no idea where I would promote such an activity. Also, I'm living in a country where paediatricians have their houses stormed by angry mobs because they can't spell Peter File...

But really, I just don't know how I could get a more general group going. There aren't really any game stores left near here that I know of, but I could have a look around. Will try, anyway.
As to D&D, I think it really is a "Gateway" Game. I started having read about D&D in a magazine and decided to re-create it for myself using the rules from "Fighting Fantasy" books. Did that four or five times and then got D&D for my birthday. From there it was a short step to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles RPG, whilst a friend discovered Shadowrun. Eventually, we all drifted into Vampire, followed by Mage: The Ascension. (probably one of the highpoints of my RP'ing history). Eventually returned to Shadowrun with the 4th Edition. I saw the third but found the core book rather cartoony and never got into it.
knasser
Sep 6 2008, 07:48 AM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Sep 6 2008, 04:40 AM)

Just missed the 30-range.
Damn, where did the years go?

This all reminds me of something a friend proposed to me: We have a vast resource in this country (the UK) of old people who don't really have that much left to lose any more and are, sorry to say it, quite likely to end up in a home for the elderly. What these people should be doing is exploiting their unique lack of punishability by ridding the world of corrupt politicians, crime bosses, etc. A prison is just an old people's home without the ugly bedspreads and they'd only be in there for a little while anyway. And at less cost to their savings, children, whatever, I might add. They may even enjoy the unique mix of new people they'd be meeting and they'd certainly enjoy the new respect society gave them after the first few Prime Ministers that faked evidence to start a war. And it's not that old people are incapable! They might not be fit enough to run up a beach in Normandy anymore, but there's a lot of veterans and life experience in there and many are perfectly capable of lobbing a home made bomb or holding a well-cared for WWII rifle.
Elderly people - more dangerous than you think. I reckon the next Shadowrun game I do, I'm going to have an elderly Shadowrunning team. Their attributes wont be super-high, but they'll have great skills, contacts and maybe some good resources. I don't know what the nuyen value of a house is in 2070, but I imagine if you sold it (after a lifetime of finally paying off that mortgage), you'd have enough for some nice chrome. "Does that old woman have Parkinson's or has she got Move By Wire?"

-K.
QUOTE (knasser @ Sep 5 2008, 11:48 PM)

This all reminds me of something a friend proposed to me: We have a vast resource in this country (the UK) of old people who don't really have that much left to lose any more and are, sorry to say it, quite likely to end up in a home for the elderly. What these people should be doing is exploiting their unique lack of punishability by ridding the world of corrupt politicians, crime bosses, etc. A prison is just an old people's home without the ugly bedspreads and they'd only be in there for a little while anyway. And at less cost to their savings, children, whatever, I might add. They may even enjoy the unique mix of new people they'd be meeting and they'd certainly enjoy the new respect society gave them after the first few Prime Ministers that faked evidence to start a war. And it's not that old people are incapable! They might not be fit enough to run up a beach in Normandy anymore, but there's a lot of veterans and life experience in there and many are perfectly capable of lobbing a home made bomb or holding a well-cared for WWII rifle.
Elderly people - more dangerous than you think. I reckon the next Shadowrun game I do, I'm going to have an elderly Shadowrunning team. Their attributes wont be super-high, but they'll have great skills, contacts and maybe some good resources. I don't know what the nuyen value of a house is in 2070, but I imagine if you sold it (after a lifetime of finally paying off that mortgage), you'd have enough for some nice chrome. "Does that old woman have Parkinson's or has she got Move By Wire?"
-K.
That is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard.
Also, the FBI is definitely watching us now--you just proposed forming a suicide revolutionary/assassin ring of old people.
Great idea, really--too bad I'm 26.
Wasabi
Sep 6 2008, 11:31 AM
QUOTE (knasser @ Sep 6 2008, 03:48 AM)

I reckon the next Shadowrun game I do, I'm going to have an elderly Shadowrunning team. Their attributes wont be super-high, but they'll have great skills, contacts and maybe some good resources.
EPIC WIN!!!
I am so gonna use this idea as well. It reminds me of the animated The Tick episode with the elderly supervillain 'The Terror'. Rock on, Knasser!
Rasumichin
Sep 6 2008, 12:05 PM
I'm in my late 20s now, started playing RPGs at around 10 or 11 and got into SR at 13 or 14 after 2nd ed had just come out.
At that time, we where a bunch of punks and nerds who looked at the cover of the first Germany Sourcebook (where Stahlseele's and my avatars are from), flipped through the books and went all "Guns! Anarchy! Helicopters! Orks with rocket launchers!"
Of course, i had to spend the next weeks blowing all my pocket money on that book, the BBB and Street Samurai Catalogue and we imediately decided to ignore availability rules and made characters who had helicopters, assault cannons, rocket launchers and every heavy weapon in the SSC (plus about 20 SMGs and assault rifles no one ever used) to terrorize the streets of Berlin.
At that age, it's just amazing to play in a setting where you don't stab orks with a sword, but can shoot Nazis in the face, call in an airstrike by the rigger and generally blow shit up.
Grimreaper500
Sep 6 2008, 12:27 PM
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Sep 6 2008, 03:34 AM)

No. I'm happily married with a child.... like a bunch of the people here it would seem.
I guess I'm trying to get a handle on the new "youth culture".
At least in regards to a guy saying/typing them.
hmmm I'm worried that could be construed as critical. It's not. I'm just curious what you whipper snappers are up to these days.
And I'm starting to get concerned that some of the guys "back in my day" that took up gaming might be prone in todays culture to going emo or something.
Do emos game?
Well first of all, I was playing to the steriotype's you old duffers have about us "whipper-snappers". OOO Rebelion I hear you all cry at my shocking use of words

(well at least I know what luke skywalker feels like).
Oh and dont worry, I didnt take it personaly, I know its old mans syndrome. (Joke)
And yes emo's I imagine do game, but, they probably come up with a suicidal nonce with about as much right to be in shadowrun as my character.
apollo124
Sep 6 2008, 01:05 PM
QUOTE (Grimreaper500 @ Sep 5 2008, 12:20 PM)


But seriously, ye I did and I was shocked how badly wrong they got the game. To be fair though it doesn't stop me from enjoying the game and I think this is better for me as I am very creative - story writing and such.
My parents also tell me i've got a vivid imagination

The Grim
I was about to say something about getting into SR from the Xbox abomination, but since you already cleared up that you know the difference (and PnP SR is WAY better), I'm gonna let you off with a warning. Teleportation, walking through walls, and Trees of Life are not allowed in REAL SR.
I got into RPG's back when I was a teenager, with D+D 1st ed and a bunch of friends who played. Then I got Top Secret S.I. because my parents wouldn't let me bring "devil worshipper" games into the house. When I went into the military, I noticed game and comic stores were almost always within walking distance of a military base, so I got into more games there, mainly AD+D 2nd ed. I got into SR with 1st ed and brought my D+D pals in also. Since I was the only one with any of the books, I was the GM. Always. Now I'm 37 and live 25 miles from a FLGS, working 20+ hours of overtime a week, so not so much time left to play. Still like the books and GenCon though.
Grimreaper500
Sep 6 2008, 01:26 PM
QUOTE (apollo124 @ Sep 6 2008, 02:05 PM)

through walls, and Trees of Life are not allowed in REAL SR.

(

) dont worry I know you cant, ive read through the rulebook, though some bits do confuse me. Is it me or are parts not really explained as well as they could of been.
apollo124
Sep 6 2008, 01:58 PM
Which parts in specific? Dumpshock is one of the really great things about SR. If there is something that just isn't clicking with you, do a search on the forums. More likely than not, someone else probably had a question or problem with some of the same rules too, and there is probably a thread about it here. Especially watch for posts by Bull and Adamjury and certain others who are Catalyst folk. This is the officially unofficial Shadowrun help site. Even posts by non-Catalyst folk can be very highly educational and possibly contain the answers you need, even if they're not RAW or canon.
Stahlseele
Sep 6 2008, 02:35 PM
QUOTE
walking through walls
tell that to high STR Trolls in SR3 armed with Dikote-Weapons and the core book rules for 2 hand fighting with cyber-implant-weapons . .
essentially, this here? this is shadowland *snickers*
while we're talking about it, where's Frank Trollman and Fortune the old Cookie? O.o
sunnyside
Sep 6 2008, 06:02 PM
Oh come on now. Who are some of the people putting in the older slots. We've had a couple admit to early 40's but nothing above that, despite the votes.
Stahlseele
Sep 6 2008, 07:30 PM
i did not, i voted 24 O.o
Dumori
Sep 6 2008, 09:40 PM
QUOTE (apollo124 @ Sep 6 2008, 02:05 PM)

I'm gonna let you off with a warning. Teleportation, walking through walls, and Trees of Life are not allowed in REAL SR.

Well the frist two are fine for free spirits to do...
crizh
Sep 6 2008, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (Dumori @ Sep 6 2008, 10:40 PM)

Well the frist two are fine for free spirits to do...
The second is something my Shaman in the Orc Underground game can do. Depending on the material...
(Disturbingly you are only 4 years older than my son. I feel very old all of a sudden....)
Stahlseele
Sep 6 2008, 10:36 PM
and you COULD do the third one too . .
great form plant spirit with LOS Regeneration? O.o
ok, the implanted characters would suffer, but technically it, works . .
alternatively, anchored focus with an area healing spell or something like that . .
Rasumichin
Sep 6 2008, 10:42 PM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Sep 6 2008, 11:36 PM)

and you COULD do the third one too . .
great form plant spirit with LOS Regeneration? O.o
That AoE stuff only works if the powers already have Reach : LOS, not Reach : self.
masterofm
Sep 6 2008, 11:40 PM
From my gaming experience the most emo kids I ever met was the two sessions of participating in a Vampire the Masquerade LARP. Certainly sullied my experience on LARPing forever. There was that very dirty feeling that there were people who had sunk so much further into the realm of power hungry geekdome that I could look down on them with distain.
Dumori
Sep 7 2008, 12:41 AM
QUOTE (crizh @ Sep 6 2008, 11:18 PM)

(Disturbingly you are only 4 years older than my son. I feel very old all of a sudden....)
Makes me feel young. But that's what I'm used to. Frag I knew almost enough science when I was 6 to pass my end of year exams I just had. I even did well in biology and that's my weakest science. I'm just a tad mature I know this when one of my good friends is setting up a family (he's 26 or there about). Freaks me out to think how much I've matured in the last two years of my life. My girl friend has just turned 18 and that freaks me out the most.
apollo124
Sep 7 2008, 03:55 AM
Probably gonna show my age here, but what the hell is emo? Or who? I've heard the term thrown around but I've got no clue what it means.
By the way, by walking through walls, I meant leaving the walls intact without a troll (or orc) sized hole in it.
masterofm
Sep 7 2008, 04:50 AM
emo was short for emotional and is a term that was created mainly to peg dark, broody, angst filled teens. You will most likely never see them smile, everything sucks in their life, and expect them to surround themselves or make as much drama as possible and wonder why they have to suffer through so much of it. Many people have the image of goths as emo or teens who cut on themselves for attention (or just cut on themselves for no reason) as emo. The term "life is pain" if a person says it while hurting themselves in some way is very emo. This to me says emo.
It has been taken and changed to mean all kinds of things though. For instance when someone is complaining about the economy or brings up anything bad on a forum and an asshole forum jock will basically respond with "Wah wah wah your so f*ing emo. Go cut your wrists and bleed to death in a bathtub." To me this does not mean emo, but to them it certainly does. I think the first part more justly describes what emo is supposed to represent. Emo though has a negative connotation attached to it, and pretty much everyone will take offense if called one.
*edit* in response to the second part of what you said though. I have walked through walls myself (drywall) and you don't really leave an impression so much as a large broken hole. From the busted open hole I guess you could infer if it was a troll considering they are 8+ feet tall.

*edit*
sunnyside
Sep 7 2008, 05:19 AM
Though be careful with assuming because someone calls someone something on a forum they actually think the person is that thing.
If that was true 99% of the population must be gay.
masterofm
Sep 7 2008, 05:29 AM
WHAT!? I'm not gay! Your gay! You big gay head of gay gayish gay gay gay!!11!one!
The internet has a lovely way of twisting words to mean something completely different. Almost in the way that some people just add "your mom" or "thats what your mom said last night" after everything you say.
knasser
Sep 7 2008, 08:39 AM
I saw someone walk (charge) through a full length glass window once (well, I came in to the room when I heard the noise). There was what looked to me like a great deal of blood. They were taken away in an ambulance but came back okay.
Alcohol was involved.
Stahlseele
Sep 7 2008, 10:34 AM
QUOTE
Many people have the image of goths as emo or teens who cut on themselves for attention
but don't make the mistake of saying emo to a goth . .
DocTaotsu
Sep 7 2008, 11:05 AM
Marines+Alcohol+Glass=Punched out glass+Broken Marines
No, I don't have the foggiest goddamn idea why it works like that. I just pick up the pieces.
Hoorah for being in the moral majority! Er... wait.
I started getting into cyberpunk when I was 14 and Shadowrun shortly after that. I too think that D&D is the gateway to gaming as it has some fairly simple themes that people can grab onto and run with "I are half-orc with spiked chain! Raaagggh!" and that it takes a fair amount of slaying dark elves in the underdark before you burn out and start looking for richer game settings. I started playing D&D when I was 9-10 and I knew about Shadowrun I just didn't... get it. At least until I read Snow Crash, then the themes of "I are guy with katana and totally awesome motorcycle surfing through The Street while killing Alteutian psychos... er wow." made sense and the joy that is SR came soon after.
I too intend to bring my oversized d6's to the retirement home. I mean... have you been in a retirement home lately? Unless science delivers on cyberlimbs/organs and cheap regenerative therapy there really isn't a whole lot else to do.
I wonder if we'll be ridiculed for being nerdy shut-ins when our "betters" are out fighting over shuffle boards
Smed
Sep 7 2008, 11:10 AM
I didn't start playing until I was 19, when I saw the original AD&D rules, back in college in 1983. I started with AD&D, played it, along with some Rolemaster, and I think Traveller. The gaming options back then were a bit limited, not that many systems out there to use, so by default, AD&D was the game. After college I gradually got out of the gaming scene, until I discovered Shadowrun back in about 1992 I think. I was hooked, and have played it off and on ever since, along with some Earthdawn, Ars Magica, Champions, and various D&D version up through 3.5. Shadowrun was the game though that got me back interested in gaming again.
sunnyside
Sep 8 2008, 04:10 AM
Well if this has pretty much run the course it looks like the average and most common age around here is low 30's.
Geez. And here I was feeling old being in my later twenties.
The worrying bit though is the late teens early 20's crowd. They'll be the ones buying and keeping it going so there'll be new stuff when we're in the nursing homes.
Someone was saying they'd try getting a group going in a local college. Good job man. Actually by the time you're as old as we are you should be ready to give the GM thing a whirl.
Cain
Sep 8 2008, 04:18 AM
QUOTE (Smed @ Sep 7 2008, 03:10 AM)

I didn't start playing until I was 19, when I saw the original AD&D rules, back in college in 1983. I started with AD&D, played it, along with some Rolemaster, and I think Traveller. The gaming options back then were a bit limited, not that many systems out there to use, so by default, AD&D was the game. After college I gradually got out of the gaming scene, until I discovered Shadowrun back in about 1992 I think. I was hooked, and have played it off and on ever since, along with some Earthdawn, Ars Magica, Champions, and various D&D version up through 3.5. Shadowrun was the game though that got me back interested in gaming again.
I was about the same. I started with the original D&D, before they split it into the Basic Set (the red box, plus the expansion boxes for higher levels) and AD&D. I futzed around with a few other systems over the years;
Top Secret and
James Bond come to mind, plus a lot of others. Many years later, in 1989, I discovered Shadowrun. I have a lot of fond memories of the early Shadowrun days, but the most important thing for me was that
Harlequin taught me how to be a good game master. Before that, I thought I was good, but I was actually a power-gaming railroader. Shadowrun was the game that actually cured the worst of my munchkin habits, and taught me how to be a better roleplayer.
QUOTE (Smed @ Sep 7 2008, 04:10 AM)

I didn't start playing until I was 19, when I saw the original AD&D rules, back in college in 1983. I started with AD&D, played it, along with some Rolemaster, and I think Traveller. The gaming options back then were a bit limited, not that many systems out there to use, so by default, AD&D was the game. After college I gradually got out of the gaming scene, until I discovered Shadowrun back in about 1992 I think. I was hooked, and have played it off and on ever since, along with some Earthdawn, Ars Magica, Champions, and various D&D version up through 3.5. Shadowrun was the game though that got me back interested in gaming again.
I bought the AD&D DMG at the Kenosha Gencon.... I think I was 15 or so?
I bought SR1 at the Gencon booth. The fact that everyone who was involved in the game failed basic statistics drove me away. Did you ever look at the examples and wonder how likely they were? Insanely unlikely. All the fanboys got all defensive when I mentioned this at a subsequent Gencon seminar.
Mostly played AD&D in HS, played Champions, RQ and CoC in college. Played all sorts of stuff after, ended up mostly playing HERO. Knew a pretty good number of the FASA people in Chicago from the Andrew Keith days (I played Traveller with Andrew for a while) and onwards (heard them whine about how Jordy kept screwing up perfectly well designed games with his last minute "improvements").
Bought SR3 at Gencon, and was one of the lucky few who got SR4 at Gencon after the same printer that had screwed FASA over before did it again..... And they weren't ever a cheap printer anymore.
The system flaws are annoying, but it's got some great ideas.
Platinum Dragon
Sep 8 2008, 08:41 AM
QUOTE (masterofm @ Sep 7 2008, 02:50 PM)

emo was short for emotional and is a term that was created mainly to peg dark, broody, angst filled teens.
As an aside, the term arose as the name of a style of music (sort of dark/moody punk, if I'm not mistaken) and evolved into a term for angsty goths and suicide cases (thus jokes like 'I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself'). Personally, I resent the term's huge negative connotations, as they reinforce the sterotype that 'real men don't have emotions.'
I prefer 'real men wear pink.' =P
Dumori
Sep 8 2008, 01:16 PM
QUOTE (Platinum Dragon @ Sep 8 2008, 09:41 AM)

I prefer 'real men wear pink.' =P
I prefer "real men wear pink if it suites them"
Kairo
Sep 8 2008, 04:37 PM
These poll results seem to make sense. Most of the players were in their teens to early twenties when Shadowrun first came out.
DocTaotsu
Sep 8 2008, 05:20 PM
I think it's funny that the "Not in this batch" is a fairly helpful metric here. Most runners are under 40...
TKDNinjaInBlack
Sep 9 2008, 04:12 AM
I had a friend in the fourth grade (1994) who was really big into Battletech. He got me to watch the old TV series and play the Sega Genesis game. Throughout the years I got purchased a few battletech books (but never played) and the Mechwarrior games on PC. Through this stuff I developed a sort of latent consciousness of Shadowrun because FASA was always had ads and pictures of artwork from the setting books in their Battletech products. I also collected Star Wars comics, so I off-handedly saw or witnessed the books at my local comic shop.
Growing up around that time, my family had HBO and Encore channels in our cable package, so I always saw movies that were really popular in the eighties and early nineties (thus altering my tastes to be vastly different from my peers). At about the time I was graduating high school (2003) I took a trip to Germany and since I collected comics, decided to take a look at what was big in Deutschland. I didn't realize that Shadowrun had such a following and I saw a huge section of books over in a corner of this shop. I mostly flipped through the books looking at the art (my German was workable, but not good enough to read cyberpunk fluff), but really loved the setting. It wasn't until 2006 in college that I found out a couple of my friends were playing a SR campaign. I jumped at the chance knowing what it was and that's all she wrote. I couldn't get enough of the setting and underlying stories of the major players. It was at this time I learned what the term cyberpunk was and realized all of those cheesy movies I grew up watching and loved to death were the roots of this.
Since it was the first RPG I ever played, I can't argue against the system in SR4. It was clear and concise for me as a new player. Granted I have a problem every now and then with some wording and I have to take a couple passes at it to fully understand it, but I more or less leave the rules as is. The only house rule we ever came up with was that a hacker could only use a program at a rating equal to his logic. It covered my GMs concerns with retarded uber hackers with good skill and good warez, and my argument for keeping the rules intact. If the hacker was using a program that was higher than his logic, it was bumped down to represent his lack of understanding of setting preferences or parameters to best help him do his job.
Funny you guys mention EMO culture. They are the reason that true Cyberpunk is dying. Cyberpunk is rooted in counterculture. Doing a bit of research, you can see how cyberpunk is first influenced by punk culture, and then by the grunge of the nineties. With the death of grunge, cyberpunk drew it's influence from the newly popular but older industrial (possibly using influences from this earlier). The Matrix was cyberpunk renaissance and it did so with big beat electronic culture, and pretty much killed the dark and gritty. Since big beat was so popular and accepted, cyberpunk had nowhere to go for counterculture influence and more or less died a bit. Unfortunately the current counterculture is EMO, so that doesn't help things. They don't fight for anything like the punks and they aren't driven by nihilism like the industrialists. They don't do much of anything but bitch and complain. That's why we have postcyberpunk, or transhuman. It's mostly the average or normal people doing things now, the cops, the reporters, the normal man, etc. rather than those who fell through the cracks of society and don't give a shit. It reflects our current world where all of us bend over and take it from the corps and the government and we don't have a movement to fight commercialized oppression or to right our wrongs. Without a movement that can fight and has the volume and density to send major ripples to change and disrupt the current zeitgeist, we'll keep getting more of the normal man scenarios in our cyberpunk media. This goes for comics, anime, books and movies.
We need more nitty gritty and flash and chrome. To get that nitty gritty, we need a counterculture that doesn't give a frag and fights against the flash and the cosmopolitan. We can't get that needed inspiration from EMO culuture. They'd rather whine and not do anything and concern themselves with the "pain" their self absorbed little minds think they experience. Shut it, you're a kid living in the suburbs with no bills to pay and all your necessities provided for you. Do us a favor and cut deep enough next time to remove yourself so we don't have to listen anymore.
wusselpompf
Nov 12 2008, 01:05 PM
as I see it, most of the rpg-players started with their hobby in the early/mid 90ies while there was kind of a boom in the industry. These people are now in the 20ies or 30ies and still form the majority of players. for various reasons (TCGs, MMORPGs, other stuff) RPGs coulnd't pick up a bigger number of new players after that time, as much as they couldn't benefit from the whole fantasy-boom of the last couple of years.
I only have a german perspective but from what I read here, the only difference between the main english-speaking market and germany might be that D&D does a much better job in attracting younger people than it does in germany (correct me if I'm wrong). RPGs are stagnating or even declining.
this means, that the RPG-players (and customers) will keep on aging and that can't be healthy for an industry ("hey CGL, can you please enlarge the type in your books? my looking-glass doesn't help me anymore when trying to read the SR 10th ed. BBB").
I personally started roleplaying with "the dark eye" (german RPG) around 1995, Shadowrun came soon after that (2nd. ed) and I barely now any SR players who are younger than I am (26).
bofh
Nov 12 2008, 01:11 PM
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Sep 5 2008, 02:24 AM)

Wow. Only two non drinkers so far. We really are an older set.
Well, don't let age fool you. I'm sure the younger ones have likely had drinks. And I'm 51 and don't drink, although I have had a few over the years (averaging less than 1 a year).
Carl
Tachi
Nov 12 2008, 01:14 PM
QUOTE (nezumi @ Sep 5 2008, 05:43 AM)

Do keep in mind, this is only a poll of DSF, not of Shadowrun players. While I'd let my 6-year-old play Shadowrun, I don't think I'd be so quick to let him hang out with you lot.
This post proves that your are a very wise person.

Or, at least good at faking it.
Drogos
Nov 12 2008, 03:13 PM
I've been roleplaying for 13 years (well, 17 if you count this one fake tactics game that a friend of mine invented in grade school that looking back is basically a RPG without a ruleset). I started with Vampire the Masquerade, so naturally I got into MET. I didn't play SR until a couple years later during 2nd. In the years, I've played at least a little bit of anything roleplaying.
I've always enjoyed SR as my fantasy fix. I still prefer Vampire and other WoD games for my intrigue. I like DnD, it's just that dungeon crawling only holds my interest for so long. I feel like I could have spent the same time playing a video game and get the same sort of enjoyment from it whereas nothing matches the feeling of playing SR or WoD.
streetangelj
Nov 12 2008, 03:13 PM
Another problem with attracting younger players is that cyberpunk is rooted in "Big Brother/NWO" (not the cheesy reality show/wrestling group), "Hackers" and "Terminator" style anti-technological fears/wonderment. Most of us grew up without the everpresent tech that exists even now. My daughter is 7 and frequently uses the computer at home (I never saw one until I was 10, and didn't have a PC - a Commodore Vic-20 at that- until I was 13; now that kind of computing power is smoked by a calculator or cellphone) and plays video games on the PS2 (I saw games only remotely comparable at the expensive arcades). She also knows how to use a cellphone better than I do, because her mom and grandma have always had them. The new edition of SR is moving away from cyberpunk because their isn't any real substance left for cyberpunk to draw from. In the US, we have privatized public services (my city just tried to lease out its sewers), security companies with their own SWAT teams (my brother worked for on in Toledo, OH 15 years ago), private armies (Blackwater, anyone?), wireless digital communication and computing practically everywhere, Megacorps (Chrysler, Disney, the german holding company that owns RJR-Nabisco and other large companies like it which I can't remember the name of, and that's just what I know about off the top of my head), a government that is rapidly decreasing our liberties "to insure our safety", and medical science making leaps and bounds in Biotech/Cybernetics/Robotics. All those fears/wonders are facts of everday life and hold no special "mystique" to draw a new player in.
I think in order to draw in the younger players, you need to stress the one thing about SR most of us have been brushing under the rug for years- the fact that a shadowrunner is a professional criminal/mercenary. Look at the popularity of "The Sopranos", the Mobsters Myspace App, and multiplayer FPS shooters. Give the players a chance to "stick it to the man", like most teens want to do instinctively. You also need to highlight the magic aspects of the setting, which is what seperated it from all the other (effectively dead) cyberpunk games. That way you can draw on all of popular culture to inspire someone new into the game.
On topic, I'm 35 and got into SR when it first came out and have run it off and on since.
Cantankerous
Nov 12 2008, 07:13 PM
QUOTE (Smed @ Sep 5 2008, 11:52 AM)

Am I the only one over 40 here? <sigh>
Not by a long shot. Wait til some of us dinosaurs see this thread. We ain't as young as we use-ter be and them quick post thingees make us old folks snappish.

Isshia
sunnyside
Nov 12 2008, 07:27 PM
By the way the young gamers are out there, they just need to be shown the way. On a different board (alright it's one for anime) I've started a RP and it's swarming with 15 year old females.
So gamer outreach. Go for it. Also forums seem to be a good way to go about that. In real life me hanging out with a gaggle of jailbait would likely:
1. Be a little weird
2. Piss off my wife
Though once someone hits college I think think for RPGs all age limitations are off. I remember being a college freshman in the gaming club and the loooong out of college crowd we allowed to attend were always a lot of fun.
I discovered that I hadn't really played CP2020 or Shadowrun until I played them with a 40ish year old weird BDSM guy and his wife, and the boarderline insane coast guard vet.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.