If its inherent, then no, it doesn't count against. I'll suggest working that into the errata.

And as for necessitating vs. suggesting...well, I gave you the bulk of the reasoning behind it. In Shadowrun, the rules sometimes define the fictional aspect of the world and sometimes reflect it - and eventually they end up doing both.

Right, and I understand that. But with the premise of trying to have a simplified rule system with sr4, the more books that come up, the more little finicky rules I see show up. As far as this one, I really don't see why its required, as sapient critters typically won't be in shadowrunning groups.

In the same manner as most Critter Powers, the sapient creature's Uneducated is specifically listed as a Weakness, not a Quality. Since this Weakness (which just so happens to be mechanically the same as the Uneducated Quality) is an exception in that it can be bought off, whether at chargen or afterward, a rule needed to be included to reflect this fact. Seems to be a logical place to put it to me.

As GM I would count the 20BP to buy of uneducated to the 35BP Budget for Positive Qualities.

Moreover I think it is better the way it is in the book, because so it is clear that uneducated is more than recommended. It is the normal state of being for a Sapient Critter, anyone without is an possibly rare exeption.

cya
Tycho

It is usually possible to buy off a Negative Quality at chargen by spending a number of BP equal to the BP you obtained by taking the quality in the first place.

If you aren't an idiot, qualities bought off this way don't count towards your limit, either. I don't think anyone needed a rule to tell them that if they picked a Quality that they don't want then they can just erase it from their character sheet during chargen.

Runner's Companion happens to have races that start with Qualities automatically. Those Qualities that are inate to their species, of course, cannot be removed. Those that are not, however, should be removable. The rule in question just makes this explicit.

Another point: This thread is actually, seriously, started by someone thinking Pixies were over-powered. By having them have Uneducated where, if they want to buy it off, they can by spending 20 BP, that means that they sink 20 BP into it that could have been spent elsewhere, and making them cost 55 BP. It is a balance thing, really. Personally, I think Centaurs she be able to buy off both Uneducated and Uncouth in the same way, but, by RAW, they can only buy off Uneducated.

Of course, to show something off...Here is a Pixie Physical Adept I built...

They can. p.84

Theres a tucked away little rule. Did it not warrant a tagline at the end of the Uneducated buyoff section instead? Especially considering it shows up before you ever get to the uneducated buyoff section?

Things get moved around a might during layout and editing. In this case, however, since it only applies to centaurs, and that's where Uncouth is listed, that's where it ended up being put. <shrug> Why say it twice?

An ontopic pic. (Those who prefer dark SR beware.)

@AniH: Avoiding the term divination while reading ideas from our mind?

SURGE?

they'd not be functional . . ok, as the flight of the dragons and the pixies(god they gotta hate being compared to the others) is magical and not physical, one could argue that neither are the pixie wings but meh, you get what i mean ^^

Yeah, i know, putting feathers on your pixie doesn't make him a bird, but there wings aren't really functional to begin with, right?

Off-side: Can pixies breed with the rest of meta-humanity?

Nope, no chance.

But that doesn't mean they can't try ...

Theres that interesting Black Box in the RC Shapeshifter Section about such topics.

Yeah, some freelancers who won't be name insisted on finding out whether or not the shapeshifters could...and centaurs...well, let's just leave all that to the fanfic, hmmm?

Or to table talk. My GF is playing a tiger shifter.

With some generous application of "glossing over", the most debated topic was "what if you take someone home, and awaken next to a tiger?".

i could have sworn that showed up in some fanfic or other...

In "Into the Shadows", one of the first Shadowrun books published, the shifter Striper/Tikki takes a callboy to bed, then changes to her tiger form and kills him because he sold her out. It is implied that they have had sex in the past and she was sort of a regular customer of him.

I do believe that the proper action in that case is to continue to enjoy the experience. You certainly don't want to offend a tiger by freaking out. Just cuddle a little and let the tiger lead.

Unless the tiger is leading you into a room covered in plastic...

What, not Bat shifters?

Hmm....back to that idea of the pixie samurai....

a pixie adept. hmm...well, we houserules Improved Attribute to be .5/level, which could take care of the Body/Strength problem...boost reflexes, lots of Critical Strike, Killing Hands, and nothing says pixies can't learn +6DV of martial arts damage just like everyone else...

Ok, they'd be glass cannons, but ''cannon'' would be the operative word there.

''Aww, how cute...lookit the little guy...''

*POW*

''...he did HOW much?''

''Well, after his Enhanced Strength qualities and adept powers which managed to get him to a 5...plus six points of Critical Strike, six points from his martial arts and the fact he was wearing Pixie Sized heavy military armor with a +3 Strength Mod, his Killing Hands...he hits you for...16P. He had 3 levels of penetrating strike, as well. What's your armor?''

now i remember, it was the transcripts from some campaign someone had played, where one of the character where called barbie (the player also used that as the nick on the old undernet shadowrun irc channel). SR2 timeframe most likely and insanely over the top. im not sure if it was barbie or some other character that was a phanter shifter...

well, there was the female panther shifter in one of the novels as well . . i think it was eternitas or something like that . . kaimag, the lead nega mage actually threatens someone to fuck her just to see what would happen . . he destroyed foci just by touching them and in a similar manner broke through unbelieveable strong magical wards or something like that . . his touch actually hurt normal mages, as though he were a living mana void

Trust me, you don't want to get to this point.

of all the things to quote

oh god, don't remind me of bondage fairies please x.x i once read one of those comics by accident x.x . .
it is now an all too possible possibility (@.@ maho?) in SR4 . .

One word : monowhip.

or mono garotte . . or mono chainsaw . . even if it's small, it will hurt more than just your feelings ^^

Mono-chainsaws actually suck as a weapon.

not style wise, they don't . . and they won't rules wise, as soon as i figure out how to launch them at people over distance too!

I'm pretty sure ranged suck still sucks.

but it will suck WITH STYLE! <.<
and suck from so far away, that you won't see where it came from so it don't matter anyhow 'cause i won't be there anymore so nyyaa!
and a small chainsaw going through your bellybutton into your guts is still as bad as a big chainsaw going through your stomach into your guts <.<

Now I want to make a pixie Adept with a bow named Cupid.

Can pixies SURGE?

Yes.

"Need two surged pixies, one with horns and the works, one with a face that can melt glaciers. Name your price."

"Specify 'the works'."

Red skin, tail, satyr legs, bat wings, a pixie-sized pitchfork, and high Fast Talk DP for giving Evil Advice, I imagine.

The other pixie should have feathery angel wings, a halo, and an equally high Fast Talk DP for giving Good Advice.

Both should be comfortable siting or standing on a person's shoulder for long stretches of time.

Exactly

Nice job, gang. Not what I was initially thinking, but still.......Bravisimo. *applause*

The Pixie as a PC is not very far fetched as they have had a 50+ years to come in contact with the modern world and at least with places like Tir Tangiere.

Some of them will surely have had a deeper contact and who knows, even set up tribes/homes in the sprawls.

Meet "Dust" the Pixie

Usually at home in Tir Tangiere he have moved to seattle after he got the word that his brother had disappeared when going to a gathering of his magical group.

Dust is a Bountyhunter and runner.

Now, what can he do? Well, his tiny little hand crossbow is the size of an SMG in his hand and have been modified with some extras.

Included in the package is a smartlink, improved clip and modification to the handle and trigger so he can handle it. He also have a Tazer Club that he uses in two hands.

What makes this little guy dangerous is that weapon strength isn't important with Stick N Shock arrows, Incendiary Arrows and Screamer Heads.
Ok, incendiary arrows aint so hot (no pun intended) as a direct damage weapon but people tend to panic a bit when on fire...

Commanding voice is also very nice as he can scream "Drop and give me 50" while completely hidden.

Not to mention that getting armour to fit is no problem as he is a mystic adept with the Fashion spell and Ruthenium Camouflage in the armour.

He also have five levels of "Cloak" adept power and a specialization against detection spells when counterspelling. Ah yes, he also have his Concealment power at magic rating 5...

Anyone trying to even LOOK at him would have how much minus?

First beat the -5D6 and succeed against the Concealment...

Then beat the Ruthenium -4D6 to see him normally...

Only weakness is that IF they find him with astral sight he might be in trouble...

That's when he actually hides...