Seriously. Shadows of Latin America has become a sort of mystery file floating around in referes that I seem to remember even gets mentioned in some book. I'm reminded of the early days of SR before the UB was exposed where there were hinted at refernces to a secret UB file 'real horror trid stuff chummers'.

So how many of us have actually seen the file? I know I haven't and I'd love to.

do we know why it was never published or won't ever be?

All I know for certain is that it's supposed to be available for download when Holostreets comes out. Of course, we've been waiting on Holostreets for five years or so....

IIRC SoLA was never completed as a polished book, supposed to be released polished up on Holostreets (a website that hasn't been realized as of this date). Developers have always said someday, when time allows and the stars are right we may one day see SoLA. Until then you'll know more when we know more is the party line.

I've seen it. I actually have the finished chapters on my harddrive. SoLA was where I got my start freelancing for Shadowrun.

Shadows of Latin America was in development to be released shortly before System Failure and SR4. Several problems arose towards the end of development that caused serious delays. These delays meant it was unrealistic to attempt to release it before either of those books came out, so development was paused. Following the release of SR4 we decided it would be counterproductive and would send the wrong message to put out an SR3 book. However, since we did/do have the final drafts for the book exist on file, rather than throw away the concept we decided it would be a nice project to release under our planned Holostreets subscription service. Unfortunately FanPro's situation, the change-over to Catalyst and numerous license issues with e-rights that require Wizkids to get their house in order following their parent company's buyout have delayed Holostreets. Having since renewed our SR license and been granted approval to explore a number of additional options with the property (ie. novels, merchandise, e-rights, etc, etc) things are starting to change. Catalyst will be releasing a number of ebooks in upcoming months (not pdf copies of print books, but rather ebook exclusive releases) to test the waters for a future Holostreets subscription service.

All that said, very few people aside from the authors, core freelancers, and the developers have seen any SoLA drafts. They exist and I have them on my HD waiting for the appropriate opportunity to release them. SoLA was actually my first "official" developer gig (SoE didn't count) and I'd very much like to see it published some time.

Like Shadows of Europe, the book was largely written by natives with Demonseed Elite, Ancient History (which is why he has copies), Jong (who drove the original project), and myself writing some of the missing chapters. As I mentioned above the partially edited drafts exist but they are not publically available and never have been to the best of my knowledge.

I am an archaeologist who has worked in Mexico and Peru. I've come across some interesting stories and myths. I would really like to see this document some day.

Peter

OK, here's my questions;

#1: "ebook exclusives"? What does this entail? will I be able to save it to my own harddrive or CD-Rom for back-up?
(Yes, I know what an E-Book is, tyvm)

#2: If Holostreets does become a reality, what subscription type will it be, free or pay (if pay it should be at least under $5 US)?

#3: What e-books will Catalyst be releasing?

IIRC one of upcoming e-books some additional material connected to Street Magic.

In Sept. chat I think they mentioned some New York material.

Of course, System Failure was a SR3 book, and released after SR4 hit the shelves....

By sixty days. I don't think that's a huge time frame in the grand scheme of things. SR4 has been out for exactly three years at this point.

If the authors of the various sections became convinced that SoLA would never officially see the light of day, could it possibly be put up for grabs as a PDF? I'm thinking of the way Asia Ascendant was released as an 'unofficial sourcebook' for Aeon Trinity after that line was closed down by WW.

Yes, that is definitely a possibility. But at that point it would be doomed to remain unofficial and they would forfeit any potential payment (small though it may be) for their work.

I think they could have managed to release SoLA in those 60 days if they had tried.

(No offense to them, but I think we need to organize a run against AH and/or Syn, and aquire their hd's...)

Of course; just like every other ebook we sell [or allow another vendor to sell.]

I was there, Cain. With the resources FanPro had available at the time, there was no way they could have done it.

Here in Germany Systemausfall was released as a SR4 book, complete with SR4 rules/stats and layout...

An e-book that Catalyst publishes is synonymous with the books sold in PDF format through BattleCorps, correct? I'm not going to need any other software outside of Adobe Acrobat Reader to be able to use an e-book, yes?

Sorry if that seems like a silly question but I work in the software industry. One vendor's "X" is another vendor's "Y" so I like to be square on what people are talking about.

Maybe not immediately, but the precedent was set for releasing SR3 books right next to the SR4 release, including one afterwards. I think it was SoA that was released a few weeks before SR4 hit the shelves? Since I don't know how RPG publishing works, how long would it have taken to get SoLA from its finished stage to the printers?


It was released as a SR3 book here, complete with SR3 stats. I suspect the German translators took the time to transfer everything to the new system.

Yes.

Yes. A book that was *directly* related to the SR3 -> SR4 transition.


haha. That's a funnily worded question, in light of your "release in 60 days" -- like the time the book gets to the *printers* actually matters to you.

Look at FanPro's publication history from 2005 to the time they stopped publishing Shadowrun. Unless they put ultra-high priority on it and dropped pretty much everything to get it done, it would not be possible to release it in 60 days.

First of all, sorry if I offended.

Second, "to the printers" was a euphemism. I know time from the printers to the shelves is basically random, and out of your hands.

Third, you didn't answer the question. Maybe it wouldn't have been possible to release in 60 days, but how long would it take for a release? In other words, how finished is/was SoLA?

SoLA is/was half-edited. It still requires/required a further developer edit. It was not ready to go into layout, and it had no artwork even assigned, let alone completed. So, no, there was no way it would have been released in 60 days or 90 for that matter. And we were commited to SR4 by then anyway.

Thank you.

Hmmm.
Maybe the Detwiller ransom method would work in this case.
For those who do not know, former Delta Green writer Dennis Detwiller still writes Delta Green material on the ransom model. If he receives so much in contributions, he will put out blah adventure/supplement/whatnot. It's worked pretty well for him.
I think SoLA would have enough of a fanbase that an unofficial fluff supplement would be able to get a pretty good ransom.

We have considered that option...

So.. you pay money, possibly without getting anything. But if the bucket gets big enough, he releases a supplement, that everyone, even those that did not pay, get access to?

...

COMMUNIST!!!! Please proceeed to the nearest re-education camp, citizen. Corp is Mother, Corp is Father.

That's just one way of handling it. There's no reason that the people who paid couldn't all get a copy first, and then the file goes on sale to everyone else -- or everyone who pays get access to the file, and nobody else does. There's a bunch of different ways it could be done [and I'm not suggesting that Catalyst would or wouldn't take any of these paths.]

Also, with a Fundable, nobody PAYS until the final dollar value is reached: you pledge your X dollars, and when the total reaches the target, you pay. So if the Fundable never reaches the goal, nobody loses any money.

Out of idle curiosity, how much would it take to profitably release a book under that method? I mean, what level of funding would it require?

Discussing any numbers at this time is not going to happen. We don't want to set any expectations that a) a fundable/ransom will happen or b) what our goal would be.

So outside of the talk about possible SoLA release, is anyone else wondering if there is going to be a reoccurring theme name with future 4e location books? From the first two and upcoming third it doesn't look that way, but with 1 and 2e, we had "x" Sourcebooks, Target: "X," and Shadows of "X".

Further down the line could we expect to have a definite title that sets locale sourcebooks apart from others?

I do not see why they need to test the waters for Holostreets...they already know thanks the the rousing success that is Battlecorps that they will get people paying money for access to just fiction. If tey are going to offer actual stuff like e-books for subscribers to Holostreets, then...well....what makes them think there will not be a market everybit, if not bigger, then Battletech. I mean, WHAT printing are they on of the SR4 Core? Verses what number printing of Total Warfare? How many of the core books for SR4 have gotten reprinted verses how many of the battletech core books? And what printing are all of them(both Battletech and SR4) on? Unwired, in fact, released at GenCon, is already going in for a second printing..Has TacOps gone in for its second printing yet? I think, really, when all is said and done, we can see where the money is coming from..so Holostreets really should be a "sooner, rather then later" thing, since it SR4 sells alot better then Battletech, just going by the number of reprintings between the two..

Don't think seen this in the post yet, but link to SR4 were you can see SoLA cover art or its place holder.
SoLA

It sounds like Ghost Cartels will be touching on a lot of the same material. Seeing SoLA would definitely be cool but I'd rather the content were updated and polished for SR4. It could easily be spread across future projects like the rumored Cities of Intrigue or what have you. I haven't seen any hints of any continent-wide update books in the future so the whole SR3/continent wide Shadows of... guidebook concept may be over and done with.

While SoLA hasnae seen print yet, be assured we're following through with its ramifications in SR4 - so that when it gets published it'll be in line with canon. Cases in point, the Nicaragua Canal mentioned in Runner Havens and some of the developments in the upcoming Ghost Cartels campaign.

Would it still be called Shadows of Latin America? Or is the Shadows of... trend done with? Just curious.

Just a placeholder; no cover art was ever contracted for SOLA.

This is one of those questions that always make me scratch my head. I mean, with the project in flux, does it benefit you or anyone if we change the name? And if we have changed the name, but haven't announced anything else relating to the project, does it benefit anyone if we announce the title change? What if we do ... and then we change our mind again, and have to announce ANOTHER title change?

We haven't announced a title change, and until we DID, it would be a little premature to say "Welll, we mighhht rename it, maybe", no? All that would do is create confusion.

Shadowrun 1st/2nd Edition location sourcebooks were tightly focused on one region or city: Seattle, London, non-Amerind North America, Germany, Aztlan, California, etc.

3rd Edition location sourcebooks expanded their field of view to cover entire continents under the Shadows of... titles.

One of the things that I think 4th Edition does right is that its location sourcebooks (and even the core rulebooks) are tied together thematically rather than limiting themselves by geography: two culturally different, fleshed out runner havens, half-a-dozen quick run-downs on other locales and guidelines to build your own; two fleshed out corporate enclaves, half-a-dozen... etc. etc. From the rumor mill and from what I know of what the devs are pitching (ie: Cities of Intrigue), future location supplements are following that format.

I would buy whatever location sourcebook was published as I love the things in any game setting. That said, I had never even heard of SoLA until I joined Dumpshock earlier this year. I don't know if name recognition would really even be a factor, especially four years after its initial announcement and all the license changes. I think publishing the information created for SoLA using the 3rd Edition Shadows of... format could be a step backwards. I'd like to see an entry on Tenochtitla¡n contrasted with another thematically similar city like Detroit, for its corporate/industrial base, or Dublin, for its government's ties to arcane powers. Or Rio with Rome for its Old World religion, as the religious-powers-that-be are always a viable source of great game material outside of the typical corporate, government, or private job-adventures that most games entail. I feel like you get more bang for your buck with thematically-based books rather than geographically-based ones.

But that's just me.

Personally I think it's funny that I've been digging through the archives (out of random boredom, honestly) and there's been talk of SoLA for years. Earlier this morning I was reading stuff on Aztech and watching Frank Trollman and a few of the other freelancers talking about this some really interesting stuff (like the dragon sacrifice / execution I'd never heard about before, the War in the Yucatan, and Dunky's interests in Aztechnology).

I would really like to see this book. I just hope it doesn't become a "lost" book like Keys to the Kingdom was for Changeling (another one I'd love to see).

Sure but other than Synn himself, who is a contact in Portugal for us to plot with?

You know ninja, I was flipping through the forum, saw your name as the latest post, and though to myself "There might be a fellow conspirator."

Good question though.... hmmm. We must think on this.

And on a random note, seeing Rome get covered would be REALLY cool. It would of course be a different book, but that would be a fun read, I think.

So where are we on this proposal to liberate AH and Syn's offline storage units? I've got some spare time.

I for one am SOOO eager to set up a run with someone in a public forum.

I think we've just identified Synner's bodyguard/sec. chief

on a more serious note so I was right. there are hints out there and some people have access but very very few people have access to all of it. For htose who do? hmmm. I'm wondering how well he can handle his martini's?

I'm less concerned with Aztlan than the more mondane stuff, like life in Uraguy and Patagonia-RL sources of beef, and the tip of chili arguably the end of the world for humanity. How do people get by etc. and I still wonder , if we can have something fragging huge in the shallow enclosed waters by USS Arzona in Hawaii, what might be in the deeper ocean waters around the Graf Spee? In the fresh water currents of the River Platte? sure we can think of Machu pichu but what about the mayan Ruins being found in Belize?

all this still swirls around in my mind.

There is a creature in South American native mythology that begs to become part of SR. I wish I hadn't left one particular book back in Toronto, so I could give you the name.

Ah... try this link:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...php/t39796.html

This entity is a night stalker that seeks out people and kills them by draining them of all their body fat. It prefers native people to Europeans because their fat is/tastes better. Sometimes a person is drained slowly, so people over the course of days will see someone fade and shrink away until he dies.

The creature is a parallel manifestation of another myth, which says that white people want the fat of natives because it is the best lubricant for their machines.

Not surprisingly, this myth developed after the arrival of Europeans and the devastation that followed.

Peter

Anybody else thinking of a village full of anorexics with an antique liposuction machine in perfect condition used by the local shaman?

Is this in Paradise Lost? I don't seem to remember seeing it there.

Of course, me wanting to stick another leviathan great in there to mess up the Hawaii situation...

ETA:

I guess I'm most interested in learning something about Amazonia and the rest of that area. There's always a lot about Aztlan and with the War in the Yucatan we're learning something about that area, but whole chunks of South America are just quiet.

And in SR, quiet is *never* good.

Look up the Shark Goddess of Pearl Harbor. Here is a brief summary of what happened when the US military tried building there without her permission. I was told the whole story from someone who was there, and it's fascinating.