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psychophipps
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 15 2008, 08:55 PM) *
It says that it's treated as having a signal rating of 2 for range.... So if it's TREATED as SIGNAL 2, then WIRELESS INHIBITING paper/paint, which blocks SIGNAL RATINGS equal/under the rating, then IT BLOCKS IT.

It's not that hard, Mr. Science.


Especially since you can just stick a tazer up against the electrically-active wall and fry any inter-connected section(s) of the "wireless inhibiting" materials with 25,000+ volts of lightning ride goodness. Take your directional emitter that you've connected to an inertial guidance module so you can precisely aim your signal to your buddy across the way with a receiver and give it a go without anyone knowing.
Cthulhudreams
why would wifi paint e electrically active? Its paint dude, it doesn't need to be plugged in.
TheOOB
Really, the paint would just need some sort of conducting material in it to make it block radio signals, think of it as a poor mans faraday cage.
Tachi
Copper flakes? Or, would wire shapes be better for overlapping?
Matsci
Lead paint.

We have come full circle.
psychophipps
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Nov 16 2008, 01:18 AM) *
Really, the paint would just need some sort of conducting material in it to make it block radio signals, think of it as a poor mans faraday cage.


Pretty much my thought on the matter. Now add that wireless signals, especially those from hand-held devices, are deep in the low end of the raw "oomph" scale, that the binding materials will have to be aesthetically pleasing for the correct corporate image, and that you can fairly easily hop up a tazer into the 100,000+ volt range and you get a great device for melting about any (in)active electronics into a semi(super)-conductive goop.

So the hole is only as wide as a quarter. With SR tech I only needed a dime's worth...
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 16 2008, 07:09 AM) *
Now interestingly enough, ECCM 6 will work, but since the thing is TREATED as having signal 2, and doesn't actually have a wireless signal antenna to upgrade, the actual Signal 6 upgrade wouldn't work.

While such weaseling may work with the wording of the cyberware (at least until you players slap you silly), the external sensor has a signal rating of 2.
Neraph
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Nov 16 2008, 06:31 AM) *
While such weaseling may work with the wording of the cyberware (at least until you players slap you silly), the external sensor has a signal rating of 2.


If it looks like an urmine, speaks like an urmine, tastes like an urmine, smells like an urmine, and feels like an urmine, I guess you can call it a weasel.

But I'll call it what it is: an urmine.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Neraph @ Nov 16 2008, 06:47 PM) *
But I'll call it what it is: an urmine.

QUOTE (Arsenal, p. 60)
Ultrawideband radar sensors have a Signal rating of 2 and are vulnerable to jamming.

Which means that the Ultrawideband Radar sensor has a Signal rating as per Arsenal that can be upgraded as per main book.

Of course, technically, as per Augmentation, the Signal rating for jamming purposes is undefined, as, per your rationale, it is only an effective Signal determening range:
QUOTE (Arsenal, p. 60)
Radar sensor cyberware has an effective Signal rating of 2 for determining the sensor’s range. Radar sensors are vulnerable to jammers and jamming.

That would make the Signal rating for Jamming dependent on the Device Rating table as per main book, making higher grade ware harder to jam... which is perfectly plausible, too.
Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Nov 16 2008, 06:14 AM) *
Pretty much my thought on the matter. Now add that wireless signals, especially those from hand-held devices, are deep in the low end of the raw "oomph" scale, that the binding materials will have to be aesthetically pleasing for the correct corporate image, and that you can fairly easily hop up a tazer into the 100,000+ volt range and you get a great device for melting about any (in)active electronics into a semi(super)-conductive goop.

So the hole is only as wide as a quarter. With SR tech I only needed a dime's worth...


I suspect shorting your phaser is going to cause more immediate problems, especially if the paint is applied in layers. Or say, on both sides of the wall. Either way, burning holes in the wall isn't going to be hugely effective, and will wreck your phaser.

psychophipps
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Nov 16 2008, 03:44 PM) *
I suspect shorting your phaser is going to cause more immediate problems, especially if the paint is applied in layers. Or say, on both sides of the wall. Either way, burning holes in the wall isn't going to be hugely effective, and will wreck your phaser.


Except that a 100,000 volt charge can arc a full 10 inches and that other layer of uber-conductive paint on the opposite side of the wall is definitely more conductive than the air it would otherwise discharge into. Being someone who has done interior building construction and remodeling, the steel interior struts and supports are the same size as those typically found in houses (2 x 4s and the like), they conduct electricity just fine (as evidenced by the times I've shocked myself), and that they're still hollow to reduce the costs and weight of construction.
vapor
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Nov 16 2008, 08:39 PM) *
Except that a 100,000 volt charge can arc a full 10 inches and that other layer of uber-conductive paint on the opposite side of the wall is definitely more conductive than the air it would otherwise discharge into. Being someone who has done interior building construction and remodeling, the steel interior struts and supports are the same size as those typically found in houses (2 x 4s and the like), they conduct electricity just fine (as evidenced by the times I've shocked myself), and that they're still hollow to reduce the costs and weight of construction.



And you don't think that mega's haven't figured out that conductive paint effectively turns buildings into giant lightning rods? I'm willing to bet that there are several grounding points built into the structural walls to prevent a minor thunderstorm from causing too much damage.

A few other ideas to toss around:

As word gets around about your runners and their tactics other people start to copy them, forcing EVERYONE to come up with counter-strategies. The mega's throw money at the problem, reinforcing walls with radar absorbent materials, upping scanners and ECM at their facilities, etc. With an unlimited capital base you get all sorts of hi tech problem solving.

Gangers start erecting barricades along the outer walls of their hideouts (using steel drums, sheets, and so forth) that not only lessens the effectiveness of the radar but helps to stop or deflect bullets as well. Maybe they move further inside the abandoned industrial sites they love so much. Hell, they could go so far as to start hanging strips of aluminum in thick clusters in the outer sections of their buildings-- as sort of a poor-man's permanent chaff.

If you feel really vicious... maybe the EM frequency used by the ware gives the owner a tumor. Or the signals attract a particularly rare and bloodthirsty paracritter.

If worse comes to worse congratulate your runners for finding a good rules loophole and ask them to stop using it so you can all go back to having fun.
Cthulhudreams
Or the wall is made of rebar concrete like pretty much every office building ever, so its not going to earth through the air. Whats going to happen is that you're going to create a short across the contacts of your taser.

That or the paint isn;t actually conductive - thats no way stated, and remember it has to go over windows as well (looked at an office block lately) so it is certainly transparent.
Neraph
Why not refer to page about 54 of BBB, where it says something to the effect of "If the rules get in the way of good storytelling, eat the rules. Tell a good story."

You're honestly complicating the game a little too much. It's not D&D, where every rule has already been written. Shadowrun is a game of fun and flexibility. Be flexible, be fun.
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