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masterofm
Ok this is what confuses me and I underlined it.

Attribute Boost
Cost: .25 per level
You can call upon your inner strength to perform amazing
feats beyond your normal abilities. Attribute Boost must
be purchased for a specifi c Physical attribute: Agility, Body,
Reaction, and Strength (separate Attribute Boost powers may
be bought for diff erent attributes). It cannot be purchased for a
Mental or Special attribute.
To gain the boost, make a Magic + (Attribute Boost) Test.
Each hit on this test boosts the attribute by 1. Th e boost lasts
for a number of Combat Turns equal to the twice the number
of hits generated.
When the boost runs out, you must resist Drain equal
to the Attribute Boost rating using Willpower + Body; each
hit reduces the Drain Value by one. Attribute Boost Drain
is Stun damage.

The attribute bonus from Attribute Boost is not compatible
with any other attribute augmentations, whether from implants
or spells, with the exception of the Improved Physical
Attribute adept power.

Ok when dealing with the drain is it for every successful hit you get on the test do you take 1 Stun, or do you take Stun equal to the total rating of the attribute boosted, or is it 1 Stun per level of attribute boost?
Mäx
I would pick the "1 Stun per level of attribute boost"
pbangarth
Attribute Boost rating would be the levels you have in Attribute Boost. That is what you should be using as the Drain Value. So, if you have Attribute Boost (BOD) 6, then you would have a Drain Value of 6S, no matter how many hits you got.

Peter
masterofm
So if you had 2 ranks or levels in Attribute boost with a natural 4 in body.

Situation 1: Lets say you got lucky and got 5 hits knocking your body up to a 9 you would take 9 S, or 2 S (for the level of attribute boost,) or 5 S (for the ranks of increased Attribute.)

Situation 2: What if you got 0 hits would you take 4 S, or 2 S, or 0 S?

This darn rule is so vague and be taken so many different ways. Can I get a higher up ruling from say Synner or AncientHistory?
Fortune
If you have 2 levels of Attribute Boost, you would resist 2S Drain upon successful use of the Power, regardless of the amount of hits you got to actually boost the Attribute.

If you got '0' hits on the test to activate the Power, then you would not have to resist Drain, as Drain only takes place 'when the Boost runs out'.
Kurious
I always took it as, you boost your stat by 3, when it runs out you resist 3 stun. The level of the ability is moot.

It makes the most sense that way, at least to me, this way you have an actual risk of drain damage... whereas if you only take one level of it, you can score 2-3 hits fairly easy and never risk any drain.

Would love to find an official clarification though.
masterofm
If you got 0 hits you would take the drain instantly as 0 hits means it ran out right after you activated it not that you flubbed. At least that is what I think is a decent ruling. I also means you just can't constantly attribute boost willy nilly w/o eventually taking a hit no matter how poorly you roll.

The problem is it is vaguely worded, however I agree with you Fortune that it is the levels of attribute boost and not the successes or what your attribute becomes. Yet you can see that there are different ideas on how this applies.

I personally find the idea of taking the full amount of what your augmented body or strength becomes as stupid. If a troll has a 14 strength or 14 body then using this trait has a good chance of KOing them on one success. Mages get spells that can do the same thing except they can be physical OR mental attributes that get boosted. They can then rock out with this spell (take the drain only once) and then stuff it inside of a sustaining foci and walk around as a badass for however long they want that foci to be active. The fact that they would not take insane amounts of stun when the adept will I find to be unbalancing and a poor use of game mechanics.
Fortune
QUOTE (Kurious)
I always took it as, you boost your stat by 3, when it runs out you resist 3 stun. The level of the ability is moot.


QUOTE (Attribute Boost Power)
When the boost runs out, you must resist Drain equal to the Attribute Boost rating using Willpower + Body


I really don't see how this is unclear.

QUOTE (masterofm)
If you got 0 hits you would take the drain instantly as 0 hits means it ran out right after you activated it not that you flubbed.


Ah, but the Attribute was not actually boosted in the first place, so the Power does not technically 'run out'. Personally though, I think that if you get no hits on this test, you are facing much bigger problems than a measly amount of Drain.
Muspellsheimr
By RAW, Fortune is correct.

I however would rule it as the amount you boost by, not the rating of the power or what you boost to.
masterofm
Neither did I, but in my situation I had attribute level 1 magic 5. I used edge so I rolled 11 dice coming up with 5 hits. I boosted my agility from 4 to 9 and then after it wore off I was told that I was taking 5 S. I only thought I was taking 1 S, but apparently it was read differently by my GM, and by others on Dumpshock.

I'm more of the opinion that it should only be 1 S as adepts need to be thrown a freekin' bone to compete against mages. The only time its fairly good is having a high edge pool and using it to help out your attribute boost.

Kurious thinks one way, Peter thinks another, my interpretation and yours is the third.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 25 2008, 07:27 PM) *
Ah, but the Attribute was not actually boosted in the first place, so the Power does not technically 'run out'. Personally though, I think that if you get no hits on this test, you are facing much bigger problems than a measly amount of Drain.


I'd hit a PC with drain on no hit. Conjuring and Sorcery specifically encore drain when you don't get any hits towards an effect. It's also such a minor nit pick I wouldn't care either way at a real table
masterofm
Oh yeah... also since the rules to not mention what type of action you take with attribute boost is it a free action, a simple action, a complex action, or can you just do it whenever you want w/o taking up any type of action. What is the official ruling on this?
Kurious
It was clarified in the errata- it is a simple action.
pbangarth
In response to some queries about meanings, timing, etc.:

1. SR4, p. 187: "Many adept powers may be purchased at a variable rating. The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept's Magic attribute."

So, rating of the power is equivalent to level of power. Therefore, "...resist Drain equal to the Attribute Boost rating" refers to the level of the power the adept has. Attribute Boost (BOD) at level 6 is Attribute Boost (BOD) at rating 6, and the Drain for using this power is 6.

2. Just as with spells and conjuring, where failing to make the spell work or call the spirit still requires a Drain resistance roll, so too the failure of Attribute Boost to boost an Attribute still channels magic which must be resisted. Sucks to be incompetent.

3. Since use of the Attribute Boost power requires a Magic + (Attribute Boost) Test, it should take as long as any other active test, shouldn't it? Is there any Attribute + Skill/Power Test that doesn't take an action? It seems to me to be at least a Simple, if not Complex Action.

Peter

EDIT: I see the errata reference now.
Fortune
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Nov 26 2008, 11:57 AM) *
I'd hit a PC with drain on no hit. Conjuring and Sorcery specifically encore drain when you don't get any hits towards an effect. It's also such a minor nit pick I wouldn't care either way at a real table


Oh, I probably would as well, but that would be a house rule. I was merely pointing out the actual wording of the Power, which is quite specific in regards to when and if Drain is suffered. Conjuring and Sorcery are also quite specific in their rulings about Drain, but no more so than this Power.
Fortune
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Nov 26 2008, 12:18 PM) *
1. SR4, p. 187: "Many adept powers may be purchased at a variable rating. The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adept's Magic attribute."

So, rating of the power is equivalent to level of power. Therefore, "...resist Drain equal to the Attribute Boost rating" refers to the level of the power the adept has. Attribute Boost (BOD) at level 6 is Attribute Boost (BOD) at rating 6, and the Drain for using this power is 6.


Right.

QUOTE
2. Just as with spells and conjuring, where failing to make the spell work or call the spirit still requires a Drain resistance roll, so too the failure of Attribute Boost to boost an Attribute still channels magic which must be resisted. Sucks to be incompetent.


I disagree.

QUOTE
3. Since use of the Attribute Boost power requires a Magic + (Attribute Boost) Test, it should take as long as any other active test, shouldn't it? Is there any Attribute + Skill/Power Test that doesn't take an action? It seems to me to be at least a Simple, if not Complex Action.


The Errata states that it is a Simple Action.

QUOTE
EDIT: I see the errata reference now.


Meh. I ain't changing my post. smile.gif
Caadium
QUOTE (masterofm @ Nov 25 2008, 04:29 PM) *
Neither did I, but in my situation I had attribute level 1 magic 5. I used edge so I rolled 11 dice coming up with 5 hits. I boosted my agility from 4 to 9 and then after it wore off I was told that I was taking 5 S. I only thought I was taking 1 S, but apparently it was read differently by my GM, and by others on Dumpshock.


I've been away from SR for a while, and am just getting into 4th edition, but this quote brings up a question. In the old rules powers like Attribute Boost could give a maximum boost equal to the level of the power. In other words, with Boost 1 and Magic 5 your Agility would never be raised beyond 5 no matter how much edge you spent or how many hits you got.

Have I just simply made an error and assumed that rules like this have carried forward, or were they actually kept in there and are being overlooked in this thread? I mostly want to know so I can let my players know that I'll be implementing it as a house rule if they did in fact take it out. Without these limits powers (and even spells) like this quickly became over powered. In my opinion, and that of previous edition writers, a .25 power point cost doesn't justify the potential to raise an attribute from 4 to 9 (more than double!) with VERY minimal risk of drain.

More directly related to the original post the only time someone using the limits I asked about would expect a different drain is if they rolled less hits than their max. In that case I'd still use the rating of the power as the soak. It's not much different than any spell really; what affects your drain is the power of the spell attempted, no matter how well you succeed.
Fortune
By canon, you only need one level of the Attribute Boost Power to potentially raise your stat a number of points equal to your Magic Attribute.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Caadium @ Dec 1 2008, 05:40 AM) *
I've been away from SR for a while, and am just getting into 4th edition, but this quote brings up a question. In the old rules powers like Attribute Boost In my opinion, and that of previous edition writers, a .25 power point cost doesn't justify the potential to raise an attribute from 4 to 9 (more than double!) with VERY minimal risk of drain.


Adepts don't need any nerfs. The hidden suck of attribute boost (in 4th ed at least) is the duration. It's only magic rounds. That means that you will be adding up the drain and simple actions frequently if you try to keep it on much at all. IMO paying a .25 PP for a power should get you a bigger bonus than aiming or around.
ElFenrir
Yeah, the boost is limited enough without getting tons of drain from a lucky roll. I mean, if you cast a Mana Bolt spell at force 6, which makes it's damage 6P, and you get lucky and roll 6 hits, it boosts the damage to 12(6 is the most hits you can get since it's limited by Force.). You still save against the Drain as if it's force 6.

With attribute boost, you use it, and regardless of how many hits you get, you roll against the level of the power. I agree it's not overpowered to begin with, and thus does not need the added nerf of having more Drain depending on the hits you get. I had an Adept with Agility and Strength Boost level 2. His magic was 6. On average, I got 2 hits, sometimes only 1, sometimes around 3. It's a pretty cool power, but it ain't that powerful. Naturally, the higher level you take the power, the more dice you get to roll, and the better chance of you getting the boost. The power at level 6 should have a bit of a risk to it, since with 12 dice, you have a shot of nailing home 3-4 successes on average, rather than just 1-2.

And yeah, Adepts do have it kind of rough enough already with certain things. Well, I won't say all adepts, but the classic physads, at least, have it rougher compared to those who choose other paths. I've been trying to get physads up to higher levels lately, not lower. Hmm...sort of inspires me for another thread.
pbangarth
Attribute Boost is one of the few Adept Powers that uses the Magic Attribute in the Success Test. Therefore it can benefit from the help of a Power Focus. From Chargen, an adept with Magic 5, Attribute Boost (xxx) 2, and a Power Focus Force 2 could expect to get 3 hits, for a Drain Value of 2.

Whether this would be enough to convince you to spend the BPs to get a Power focus is another question.

Peter
Caadium
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Dec 1 2008, 04:09 AM) *
Yeah, the boost is limited enough without getting tons of drain from a lucky roll. I mean, if you cast a Mana Bolt spell at force 6, which makes it's damage 6P, and you get lucky and roll 6 hits, it boosts the damage to 12(6 is the most hits you can get since it's limited by Force.). You still save against the Drain as if it's force 6.


As I said, Drain is based on the level of the power similar to the force of a spell. Number of hits has no bearing on drain. However, much like your above example, the amount of hits you can get is also limited by the power. This comes from older versions of SR, and I was just asking if it had changed. Spells haven't, so I definitely see no reason not to keep the limitation on adept powers (at least in my games).

QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Dec 1 2008, 02:43 AM)
The hidden suck of attribute boost (in 4th ed at least) is the duration. It's only magic rounds. That means that you will be adding up the drain and simple actions frequently if you try to keep it on much at all. IMO paying a .25 PP for a power should get you a bigger bonus than aiming or around.


In most SR that I've played a LARGE number of fights are either done or mostly done within a few rounds. Since most adepts have at least a 5 magic, the only time you are 'adding up the drain and simple actions frequently' is in a large combat when an Adept tries to make a temporary boost power permanent. And if you want a permanent boost there is a separate power for that
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Caadium @ Dec 1 2008, 12:39 PM) *
In most SR that I've played a LARGE number of fights are either done or mostly done within a few rounds. Since most adepts have at least a 5 magic, the only time you are 'adding up the drain and simple actions frequently' is in a large combat when an Adept tries to make a temporary boost power permanent. And if you want a permanent boost there is a separate power for that


At my table one side of a fight usually holds the field in 1 or 2 rounds, even the large ones. Attribute boost will absolutely last your for that. I thinking of the fact that it doesn't help you on surprise, and is more thing to do while setting up. Also Improved Attribute is one of the worst powers in the game.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Dec 1 2008, 02:14 PM) *
Also Improved Attribute is one of the worst powers in the game.

What the hell are you talking about - one of?
ElFenrir
There is a large part of me that's wanted to go over many of the Physad style powers and retool a lot of them. I mean, they'd be good for our table, I don't expect everyone to agree with them since we all have different styles, but I just have this nagging part of me that wants to bring back a great version of the ''au naturale'' physad, without it being ''more optimal'' to plug 2 essence worth of 'ware in. There is nothing wrong with choices or having to make a choice, and if someone wants to play an adept with 'ware they should be able to...but I dunno. While Shadowrun is all about magic, man, machine, etc...it just seems that the choice of playing ''Pure Physad'' and ''Physad with a couple of points of ware'' ends up being choice 2 every time. When one of two choices gets picked every time, I can't help but feel something is off.

Attribute boost would get retooled, Improved Attribute would be VERY revamped(and yeah...one of? Hah. Worst power, easily), Reflexes is getting a one-over. Some of the powers I'd want to see revamped a bit, others simply re-priced(like Imp. Attribute. The suck from that comes from the fact it's horribly overpriced.) I don't want to see the sam disappear; if anything, the sam will still absolutely have their place; I do believe there is still ware that can do what powers can't(and vice versa; each should have their perks), and I always said that one of the perks to sams is the full use of powers in things like background counts/Mana Static(which can, and do, exist, and a high enough one can turn an adept into a mundane.)

Hmm...give this some time.
Caadium
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Dec 1 2008, 12:53 PM) *
Imp. Attribute. The suck from that comes from the fact it's horribly overpriced.


I understand why people don't like the price for this power, unfortunately (mostly do to min/max abuse) you'll find that you can't really lower it. As thing stands it costs 1 Magic Point to raise an Attribute by 1. Coincidentally, 1 Magic Point costs 10 build points just like other attributes. If you make Improved Attribute cost .5 you will find that the cost makes it the cheap way to buy attributes for all characters based on how much essence they won't be cybering. After all, if every 10 BP gets you 2 Attribute points (with the first 2 only costing 5 BP) then if you are going to have 1 or 2 full points of essence left it'd be the way to go. 15 BP gets you 4 attribute points. As is, 5 BP gets you 1 Attribute Point if you have the essence left.
Fortune
Yeah, but look at the other factors of this Power. If the character wants to improve their Attribute, they pay Karma according to the adjusted level of the stat, not the basic Attribute. This differs from pretty much every other means of Attribute improvement, and combined with the Power's cost, makes for an unattractive option.

As to the argument about BPs, check out the BP equivalent costs for improving an Attribute through cyber or bioware.
ElFenrir
Actually, it would be quite balanced at .5, and it could even be cheaper on a scale(not the whole time, but to a point.) You have to consider other factors.

The biggest being the Cyber Adept.

As it stands now, for an Adept to get +2 to each of, say, Agility and Strength, it would cost 4 of their magic points, which is horrendous for that bonus. It's mechanically better-and not even from a min-max standpoint, but from a ''not shooting yourself in the foot'' standpoint, to give up 1 point of magic(you can get it back later through initiation and the like), and take Muscle Augmentation and Toner level 2. This might cost a little extra from the standpoint of having to pay a little nuyen(30k total, or 6 BP), but you get your +2 to Agility and Strength, AND have a full 5 Magic Points left to spend.

The adept? He has his +2 to Agility and Strength, and only has 2 magic points left to spend. Yeah, it's pretty clear who is the winner here.

Even at .5 per level, it's mechanically the better choice to go for the bio, but at least it's a little better; for 2 Magic Points you can get +2 to those two stats, and you'd have 4 left(as opposed to the 5 remaining that the bio-adept would get.)

It's already been houseruled at several tables that I know of to lower the cost(that's how I run it as well), and it's not broken in any way. The way it is in the book? It's broken in the way that it's just plain bad. Some folks say that a way to tell if something is broken/powerful, is if everyone takes it and it becomes a ''must have.'' Well, the opposite goes, too-if something is so bad that NO one takes it and looks for ANY other options(also, it's actually better to get freaking Muscle replacement level 2 than this-at least you still have 4 magic left!), there's a problem also.

Also, keep in mind the ''10 BP getting you 2 attribute points thing..'' well, in the bio-adept option, they get 4 attribute points for 6 BP(the 30k nuyen), and still have 5 magic left over. Trust me when I say ''settling for 5 magic'' is not a drawback. 5 magic works very, very well. They DO have to max the stat out to get this...but if they do it the other way, with the prices as they are, they have to max the stat ANYWAY just to be able to have some left over.
darthmord
The reason for this is most of the prices for adept powers were NOT retooled when SR3's 6 became SR4's 4. Some of those prices are still the same as they were back in SR2.
ElFenrir
I might be wrong here, and I might be imagining things(or it simply was a friend's houserule...SR3 is older than I think right now), but I sort of remember the old Improved Attribute priced something like this:

.5 up to Racial Max(6 for humans)
1 after(up to Attribute Maximum)
and 2 per level AFTER that, allowing people to go past the 1.5xRacial Modified Limit.

Again, this could have been a houserule. (and even if it was, it's not that out of this world...to raise a Human stat from 6 to 10 would have been 5 Power Points. I guess if they REALLY want that 10 and want to blow 5 of their points, go for it.)

I still thing .5/level is much more reasonable(and even then, it's still ''optimal'' to go for the bioware. That first initation/Magic Point purchased back isn't all THAT bad.)
TheOOB
Hell, when you compare it to essence costs of the bioware, .25 per attribute is fair, though I personally believe that if all you want to be is faster and stronger, then ware is a better way to go, so I go with the .5.\

I also don't like how expensive it is to get extra passes as an adept, sure it's similar to the essence cost of wired reflexes, but wired reflexes is really inefficient, and even at creation most people go alpha grade or straight to bio. And since it's essentially required for you to have multiple passes to be a good warrior, I don't think it should be quite as expensive to obtain. I personally require 1xrating pp for the power.
ElFenrir
I've heard a few folks do the 1xPP bit, and it seems to work well. It's actually rather rare someone takes the 3.

I find, in some messing around with the Attribute Boost, that .25/level up to the max, and .5 up to the Augmented Max, works quite well. Someone with an Agility 4 who wants to purchase a 7 pays 1 Magic Point to do so. Someone who wants +3 Agility with Muscle Toner pays .6 Essence(dropping Magic to 5). Both have 5 Magic left, but the other person also has .4 Essence to play with(say, Muscle Augmentation 2), so it IS still better. (Ok, if you play by RAW you need Restricted Gear for level 3, but still. Since we don't bother with the Availability limit, it actually even makes the Toner look even better.)

It's still a decision they have to make, as in ways, even with the drastically reduced cost, better to go for the ware(another example would be Synthacardium 3 and then 1 more thing at .1 essence to fill out the last point, where the adept gets a simple +3 Agility), you'll still see cybered adepts around, but you also might see more pure adepts.

If you use this, though, I would make a ruling that the Improved Attribute does not stack with any other Attribute modifiers(so you don't get people stacking cheap points with attribute-enhancing bioware.) It's more or less an option for folks who might want to play a ''pure'' adept who still is around an equal, but at the same time, if they want to ''super optimize'', they still might go for the 'ware option instead.

I still have to get around with posting a thread with a bunch of changes I made to physads for houserules.
TheOOB
QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Dec 8 2008, 04:48 PM) *
If you use this, though, I would make a ruling that the Improved Attribute does not stack with any other Attribute modifiers(so you don't get people stacking cheap points with attribute-enhancing bioware.)


Why is this a problem? I mean, you can't exceed your augmented max for your metatype through either of those means, and attributes are fairly cheap to raise so if your character wants to use a limited resource to increase their attributes(essence and/or magic) I say let them so long as they don't exceed their augmented max.
Glyph
I have to say, even though I feel that adepts should be tempted by the quick boost of 'ware in some areas, that I would consider playing a "pure" adept with those rules. The only "pure" adept that I ever played was Tasha. Even her, I re-worked with bioware in the last game I played her in, when I tweaked her from a gunsel into a gunsel/face. Under RAW, bioware is flat-out better than improved attribute - there's no comparison even at 1 point per level, much less the 2 points per level to go over the natural maximum.
TheOOB
Considering shadowrun is a cyberpunk setting, I see no problem with ware becoming a strong attraction to characters, even awakened ones. The fact is shadowrunners do some of the most dangerous job on the planet, and they need every advantage they can get, and no matter how staunch they are about staying naturally, eventually they will consider the quick physical power boost that can be gained from ware, even at the cost of their magic abilities, it's the nature of the world they live in.

That said, not it's mostly phys adepts that get ware, because as we all know, if all you want to be is faster and stronger, bioware is the way to go. The most powerful adepts I've seen(and the ones least likely to resort to ware) are the ones focused on non combat pursuits. A social adept or an investigative adept is scary good in their field, and techno-adepts make crazy hackers.
Glyph
Even then, a social adept can get tailored pheromones: 3, minor cosmetic biomods, enhanced pheromone receptors: 3, and a vocal range enhancer for under a point of Essense - heck, they have room to add clean metabolism and dietware. They are only less likely to do so because Magic alone can get them to where anything more is gravy.
TheOOB
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 9 2008, 04:33 AM) *
Even then, a social adept can get tailored pheromones: 3, minor cosmetic biomods, enhanced pheromone receptors: 3, and a vocal range enhancer for under a point of Essense - heck, they have room to add clean metabolism and dietware. They are only less likely to do so because Magic alone can get them to where anything more is gravy.


And cyberpunk strike again, who cares about your humanity when you can become more then human.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Dec 9 2008, 04:15 AM) *
Considering shadowrun is a cyberpunk setting, I see no problem with ware becoming a strong attraction to characters, even awakened ones. The fact is shadowrunners do some of the most dangerous job on the planet, and they need every advantage they can get, and no matter how staunch they are about staying naturally, eventually they will consider the quick physical power boost that can be gained from ware, even at the cost of their magic abilities, it's the nature of the world they live in.

That said, not it's mostly phys adepts that get ware, because as we all know, if all you want to be is faster and stronger, bioware is the way to go. The most powerful adepts I've seen(and the ones least likely to resort to ware) are the ones focused on non combat pursuits. A social adept or an investigative adept is scary good in their field, and techno-adepts make crazy hackers.


Phys ads really got hosed. Improved attribute and Improved Reflexes are both horribly over price, and Improved combat skills randomly twice the PP to improve other skills. So that's subpar choice for attributes, IPs, and skill bonus which is kind of the core of combat build.
ElFenrir
Phys ads being hosed compared to other types is one reason I made this change.

Ware is still tempting. I mean, again, looking at hard numbers-being able to plug in +2 Agility, +2 Strength, and +2 to ALL Athletics Tests(not limited by the Gymnastics Skill Rating), is still, all told, more effective than buying it under Magic. For one, to get the real cheap costs, your attributes have to be 4 or less(so it's .25/each.). Right there is 1 magic, and if you want the +2 Gymnastics(not even athletics-gymnastics), it's subject to the Skill Rating since it's improving the skill, and it's another .5, for 1.5.(If you want all four? Well...get ready to pony up.) If your physical attributes are over 4, the savings aren't as grand; it lets a 5 reach a 7 for .75, but it STILL leans a bit more toward 'ware.

So again, 'ware is still tempting. BUT, if folks actually who would sometimes want to play a pure physad, would under these rules, then they would work. Indeed, while most face adepts get Pheremones, etc...they do have all the things there they need to be stupidly effective at their jobs, even pure.

As for not stacking them; You may be right. You still need to pay both costs, and costs in essence(and lower Essence means lower Magic, and lower Magic means less levels of a power you're allowed anyway.) Thinking about them again, stacking them might not be so bad in the end. I think I'd require you pay points compared to the Augmented attribute, however. This does let physads get +4 without Restricted Gear if you play by RAW. I don't want them to leave sams in the dust, nor to I want to totally take away the temptation of 'ware, I simply want them on a similar level when they're pure. (Then again, I don't recall if the original ones stacked. I think it did. The Initiative enhancement, I recall indeed did not stack.)

There are a few other powers I retooled cost-wise, as well(Berserk, for one, but my reasoning for that was a bit different.)

Attribute Boost, I'm toying with a couple of reworks. One is just leaving it RAW, which, well, isn't a rework. The reworked version sees the same cost, but it actually allows you to boost past the Augmented Max. However, you must pay the level you purchase the power at; as in, the hits are limited to the level of the power, so no more buying level 1 and getting 4 hits. Going past the Augmented Max is a pretty nice deal(even if only for a few turns), and I figure making it cost the level of power would be more appropriate.

I explain the ''augmented max breaking'' as simply being that otherworldly force that can push you magically beyond any limit. I really don't see why it couldn't happen via magic, there IS one legal way to break one's augmented max already via the use of powered armor(yeah, I know it works from the outside, so to speak.) I would give this some testing, however. I guess what I always had in my head for Attribute Boost was a big ol' surge of power that lets you move REALLY bleedin' fast with a lucky roll, or stand there to soak that hit like no one's business, even if it's only for a few moments. Drain would remain the same.

I'm almost worried the new version might be a bit worse, in a way; since you need a higher level of it to get more hits, you are pretty much guarenteed more Drain, and I dunno if allowing you to break the cap once in awhile(you still need to roll for hits, so I doubt someone is going to throw down 6+ hits repeatedly), is worth having to pay more for the power as well as suffer more Drain. I'm sure there are some folks who might be happier with the way it is in RAW, even though it's more limited in what it can do, it's still cheaper, and you typically take a bit less Drain from it.
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