I was wondering, after 20 years of SR , a world with wizards, elves, orks, trolls dragons, vampires nad lawyers-why were there never any rules developed for werewolves?

I know there were the loup garou but I mean really, in a game system that includes the various strains of HMHVV and shape shifters why nothing about a communicable magical disease. I know you can have house rules, we do, but do any of the people on the inside of the design team looking out know why this never happened?

Because lame, overused cliche stuff didn't fly.

In seriousness, I think the designers decided that shapeshifters filled the role, and they didn't want to be White Wolf. I think all the damn strains of HMHVV are enough for the world.

Technically I guess you could consider Strand II of the HMHVV on Humans to create Were-wolves.

Traditionally, werewolves are just normal humans (though sometimes magically gifted ones) who voluntarily transform themselves using totemic magic. The shapechange spell and possession traditions both cover that fairly well, expecially when combined and used in conjunction with a wolf-pelt focus.

Let's just watch Ginger Snaps.

EDIT: http://www.ginger-snaps.com/ki/pic_ki_portrait1b.jpg

There was serious contemplation of having a magical compound based on the traditional "werewolf ointment" from European folklore, but I never got around to actually putting it in a book.

Aren't wolf-flavoured shapechangers essentially werewolves anyway?

Snowdonia Fox might be missing out on the wolf-man part of the modern werewolf concept.

Between the Shapechange spell, Wolf Form spell, Wolf Shifters, and Loup-Garou, I think you're pretty much set.

Becouse most appartment complexes in shadowrun have a strict no dog clause, As well its just not a good way to live, remember, When you eat your nabor your eating every person that person has eaten,

Because there are several types of "werewolf" and shadowrun went with the wolves-are-the-natural-form version.

The same as SR does wizards, orks, trolls, dragons, vampires differently to most of the "standard" fantasy versions...
...But then most Urban Fantasy games [and fiction] does.

Personally I'm glad there are no werewolves as it pushes it father away from White Wolf and Underworld. The farther away Shadowrun is from those two... things the better.

So should I be looking at playing a game where the Technocracy has won and now it is up to the intrepid Werewolves from not being wiped out from existence with the help of a few rogue mages and vampires.

I see Shadowrun world being so loose that you could marry in the whole WoD mythos without a hickup.

Between Loup-Garou, shapeshifters, and changelings, there is no shortage of ways to become a wolfman(or wolfwoman).

Just curious though, how expensive would it be to gain shift as a meta genetic power, being able to shift between a normal human and your changeling form, either at will(for a higher cost) or due to a trigger(for a lower cost).

Wow. Just...no. No.

Remember the basic logic behind Shadowrun - the myth comes from the reality. All these things exist in modern mythology because in some form they existed in reality. If vampires don't actually fulfil every single possible variation of vampire myth, it's because some parts of the story changed in the telling. As people have pointed out there are plenty of weird magical things in the setting that would account for the origins of the various werewolf myths. If you can't become one by being bitten... well then clearly someone start embellishing the myth along the way, probably getting confused with the various HMHVV variants.

Yes. One can fit in a lot of stuff into Shadowrun without many if any changes.

Not sure if you guys remember the old Shadowrun novels, but the character Wolfgang Kies (aka Wolf) from the books "Into the Shadows" and "Wolf and Raven." is actually a were-wolf.

Wolf was a character created by Michael A. Stackpole during SR I and the beginning of SR II. After reading the books, my friends and I at the time could not figure out what type of character Wolf is. We had a fun time in high school reading those Shadowrun novels and trying to recreate the characters from them (IE Argent, Talon, Ryan Mercury, etc.) In the end we thought the Wolf was a physical adapt.

Fast forward to 2003 or 2004.

I was at a small gaming convention called Ubercon which takes place in New Jersey. The guest of honor was none other then Michael A. Stackpole. During his Q&A session I asked him about Wolf and Raven, specifically what type of character wolf was. In addition to telling me the origins of Kid Stealth and Dr. Raven he mentioned that during the creation process he called the develops of Shadowrun and asked them if they were planning to have were-wolves incorporated into the game. The develops replied with a "Yeah sure, what the heck. Let's throw them in." kinda of answer. Thus, the character we all know as Wolfgang Kies is a were-wolf. So to reinforce a previous posters comments, there were original plans to bring in were wolves into the universe. On a sidenote there are bad ass were tigers as told by Nyx Smith in his Striper Assassins novel.

Wolf was re-thought as a totemic adept. The whole hairy thing is him assuming the shamanic mask.

All the various types of werewolves also remind me of the Jim Butcher novels, the Harry Dresden files. I think it was book 2 that had all the fun wolves.

I believe(now this isn't cannon I know) that the reason there are no Were-Wolves is that WereWolf blood is used in the Immortal Elves evil secret longevity rituals. However it takes LOTS of Blood to make it through the down time and since Immortal Elves are behind every bad thing to happen at anytime in history, they obviously caused the extinction of this proud species of creatures.

Now,before someone goes asking for proof, I will simply point out that A) there are no were-wolves and B) immortal elves lived a long time. Following the logic of A+B=C where C is that Immortal Elves are responsible.

You can't argue with hard cold facts.

*note* This post was created in the spirit of satire. It is not intended as cannon to the shadowrun universe and is not supported by CGL, Dumpshock, or anyone else (except Pres George Bush, who has tasked the NSA, FBI, And CIA with the executive order to "Track down those evildoing Immoral Elephants that are threatening our great nation."

I did.
It worked. And i made a Vampire Fanboy cry.

PICS OR THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS

If memory serves, the European belief about werewolves involved it being caused by a number of activities, including things like sleeping naked by a stream, eating wolfsbane, masturbating, praying to the devil, etc. which would suggest it shouldn't be a disease but more of a hairy palms thing.

However, it's so easy to make a werewolf disease, I'm not sure why Snow Fox doesn't do it herself. Or perhaps her goal is to have a canon explanation as to why she bites her players.

Yes, please. Vampire fanbois crying make my day.

I can't believe I never though of this. And it would work scarily well.


All the more worth it.

I think so too.

lol, we do have house rules for it but I was more interested in the official reason why it's house rules.

Loup Garou are just gone, brain fried, and spells or shifters fall into the catagory of people who do it willingly. There's a lot of french folk lore about this. Magicians with pelts and stuff, who want to change shape on command. The White wolf people also fall into this catagory. Since they are incontrol of their forms.

I was thinking of peope who seem normal most of the time but are cursed with transforming, possibly losing control of their humanity and having the added worry of infecting others, Like Laurel Hamilton's Richard Zeeman or from film David Naughton (American Werewolf in London) Jack Nicholson and of course Lon Chany Jr. (numerous Universal films.)

Hmmmm a Jack Nicholson Type... That could be quite interesting. Maybe a Free Spirit who spreads anchored Shapeshifting Spells at people it bites.
Doesn't have to lose his humanity or reasoning, tough. Whitley Striebers "The Wild" made a nice example of a shocking story about a uhm... "Werewolf" who kept his thoughts whilst transformed into a normal wolf.

And no, sorry i don't have any pics. But i kept my notes about the crossover just in case. It was a cool and nice idea at that time, i just didn't work it out much since no one in my vicinity was interested in playing such a crossover seriously.

I always considered that the Shifter "critter" was technically the Sixth world version of the were-creature. It incorporates the legends we have with the unique slant from Shadowrun so they're not your mundane "hollywooditus" werewolf. I think that the shifter actually covers many such folktales very well, from the Japanese Hengeyoke (fox shifters) to the Celtic Selkies (seal shifters) and swanmays (swan shifters).

As for using a lycanthropy disease, well HMHVV would be the most likely candidate as a magical virus, and when the Loup-Garou was published in Paranormal Animals of North America that pretty much covered the vacancy with Strain II. Even if it wasn't totally confirmed as rules stating "These are werewolves" it certainly worked in "fluff" and left it up to your GM to decide on the truth of the matter. (Just like Sprites from PAoE are in fact Windlings from the fourth World.)

With regards to Wolfgang (which incidentally is one of my favourite characters - yay) Mr. Stackpole states that he was writing tis character before Shadowrun was effectively released and as with all stuff that is new and with a whole undeveloped Sixth World out there the raw material of inspiration was left open. Unfortunately, today we have TWO DECADES worth of development to reference for Shadowrun. This makes the background more consistent but also narrows the field of creativity somewhat for truly original ideas. You have to go with hats already been established or come up with a balanced way of inserting your new "Kewl Stuff" into an already vibrant and detail universe. Not as easy as when everything is still a primordial soup of possibilities.

I'd consider Wolfgang Kies a mundane who made a spirit pact with a free Spirit that possesses him.

the way i see it is that shadowrun, unlike wod or d&d, comes up with scientific explanations for the creatures (at least some of the time).

vampires, for example, dont just turn others into their kind because thats their MO, its because they are carriers of a special kind of viral infection.

this is what happens when major league labs and universities turn their focus on things.

Book 2 of the Dresden Files, Fool Moon.

I would love to see 4th edition stats for the cybernetic abomination vampires portrayed in "Terminus Experiment" By Jonathan Bond and Jak Koke. As for Wolfgang, totemic shamanic adapt fits more then the mundane version of him.

The involuntary "curse" werewolf version is best played using involuntary spirit possession by a feral Wild Spirit that transforms the host and can only possess during a full moon.

I'd get rid of the infection aspect, it's just too powerful that way, and leave it as a curse that is placed on someone by a twisted magician of no small power and only transferred by a bite in the event of the original's death. (When the original dies, the spirit moves on to the most recent person he bit).

sounds like one nasty cybermancy experiment

not really.
it was a gene-tech experiment conducted by oslo wake and the ordo maximus
tweaking the original HMHVV to get rid of the cons and keep the pros . .
no needing blood, no suffering from severe sunburn . . no discoloration . . ability to digest real food . . Regeneration, immunity to disease and age . .
in the end, there was only the prt about burning wood splinters killing the one person that got the virus . .
and burning wood splinters fired from a shotgun ought to take down most everything unarmored *g*

interestng idea. our house rules do have infection but the down side to them is a control problem if wounded or smelling blood.

it rerally is bad if in the middle of a firefight a team member suddenly changes form and randomnly attacks the nearest person.

I think I actually emailed Jak Koke and he emailed me back, way back in the day.

Have you people not read Loup-Garou from Runner's Companion? Exactly what you want there.

Honestly, between Loup-Garou, Wolf Shifters, Shapechange, Wolf Form, and wolf-based Changelings, you don't need anything else.

It's not exact. A Loup-Garou is permanent that hairy thingie and isnt that self-aware, whilst a Shifter is an animal to begin with, the Shapechange Spell is just that - a Spell and wolf-based changelings... hey we all know those are played by furries

But Spirit possession is an option too, don't loose that point.

You've obviously not played enough (oWoD) Mage.

Vampires are infectious because they have Irregular Ions in their Flux Sphere in direct proportion to the exponent of their LaGrange Spirit factor, causing a reverse flow of Quintessential Charge when they drain Haffler Energy from their victims. This leads the subject into a state of Hyper Acute Tarraphon Syndrome (HATS), where their Temporal Resonance coefficient is indefinitely suspended in a single-day loop, leading to instantaneous regression every sunrise, as well as Catastrophic Ephemeral Dysfunction on exposure to too many Solar Hyrons. Inability to process Solar Hyron Assisted Garans (SHAG), coupled with the Heimdall Effect of their Temporal Resonance Loop lead to the initial Irregular Ion problem, causing them to be infectious to further victims.

Interestingly, while most of these symptoms have been successfully treated in laboratory settings, the subject's HATS invariably cause their symptoms to reassert themselves the following day. All attempts to treat HATS have either been unsuccessful, or have resulted in the termination of the subject, usually via Resonance Cascade, though SHAG supplements seem the most promising avenue of research at the time of writing.

talking about the technocrazy and their "agreed reality"?

not sure i ever liked that part of owod mage...

Technocracy makes some nice villains, but i guess a Son of Ether could babble like that too.

heh, the sons bailed on the cracy because the tech ended to sanitized, iirc...

more buck rogers for the people!!! :crazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6hQUFGsVf4

Sorry, my English fails me here Can you rearrange that sentence?

heh, there was a "up" missing in there...

anyways, from what i recall, the sons of ether was a technocracy group that went over to the other side because their (sons) view of tech was much to "out there" for the technocracy...

I think there could be were-wolves in shadowrun. Possibly they are very, very, tiny and invisible on the material and astral planes. That would explain why no one has seen them.

If there are drop bears in Shadowrun there has to be were-wolves! At least if not were-wolves at least one old Heavy Metal guitarist called Lars