Could, say, a Nosferatu (I know, I know, in ED they didn't exist, but let's pretend they do through the magic of handwaving), Banshee or vanilla Vampire surive from the previous age of magic, or a mana spike? As in, would their essence drain power still function?

It's probably possible (given said handwaving), but I would imagine that some kind of ritual would be needed. Magic did work during the downtime, but the Mana level was so low that what mages can do with a mere thought in 2070 would take hours or maybe even days of ritualistic accompaniment in 1870.

I'd say there are already immortal elves. No need to open up a can of Ann Rice or the emo writer of your choice.

However vamps and ghouls are, I think, horror related.

Too bad that SR vamps and nosfies are not emo at all



They might, they might not. My own favorite pet theory on the origin of HMHVV (and IMO the virus is obviously from the Fourth World) is that some powerful, ruthless, and knowledgeable 4th World magical faction (maybe the Therans, maybe the Denairastas, maybe some Horror cult) did attempt to reverse-engineer the genemagical framework of the immortal elves, and/or develop an Awakened viral vector that would bestow immortality, various Critter/Changeling powers, and magical aptutide, and was only partially successful. IMO the virus seems too much like someone's attempt to make a "magically augmented immortal Changeling supersoldier" and proably the virus was initially developed to work for humans.

Anyway, there is nothing in SR rules that prohibits some vampire/nosferatu to have survived all the way since the Fourth World. If they did, however, they ought to be fairly well known to IE and Great Dragons, to be Awakened, and be in the same power level as the other immortals.

If it fits the need of your plot, the sure! Why not? Why should those dam elves get all the fun?

Well, as reliable as SR setting novels may be as canon sources, they indicate that a nosferatu could be alive and active during the downtime, even if spell magic was indeed fairly hard to do (magicians did require to accumulate personal mana reserves for days and weeks in order to cast a typical SR spell). I guess this indicates that Essence Drain is a power that does require low mana levels to work.

The Mana level was too low to sustain most (if not all) awakened creatures and Essence-related abilities. I merely hypothesized the need for some kind of ritual by extrapolating what we know about how Magic did actually function in the Fifth World. Besides, I think it is kind of cool to require the vamp to develop a feeding ritual.

Have a Dracula-like chamber where one was staked during a manaspike, and if you remove the stake he'd start regenning.

Hmm, I'm not too convinced that a feeding ritual would be all that practical, given the nature of the act (sure you could have unwilling victims to be strapped into a ritualistic sacrifice, and willing ones to be seduced into the vampiric equivalent of tantric sex, and there is the ever-silliest wendigo cannibalistic feast, but I doubt both would be ever sufficient to ensure a sufficient and steady amount of Essence). Therefore, if the downtime mana level is insufficient to keep the Infected viable, I would expect them to go dormant into hibernation, just like Dragons. You can have a number of ancient Infected to have awakened from millennia hibernation.

at least in the fluff of a novel, there was at least one such vampire . . Nosferatu 2055 . .

Keep in mind that we are talking about a Nosferatu. As such, the Essence requirement is not nearly as high as that of a generic vampire.

Heh, a run where you have to stop Dracula's regeneration could be cool.

Hmm... I know nothing about Earth-Dawn, but would it be possible for Dracula to actually be a horror or one of there spawns or something? Something Really Bad™ that the runners had to stop from coming alive in the world?

Less "my plot" and more "Idle curiosity". And as far as I know, vampires as they are didn't exist in the fourth world, thus the magic of handwaving.

And the GM says : "This time, I want one of you to make a whip adept. It will come in handy during this campaign, I promise. "

No explicit mention of them is made in ED that I'm of, albeit there are hints that a vampire-like female elf appeared in the Blood Wood during the Scourge, which would tie the origins of vampirism to the Horrors, Blood Wood magic, or both. However, I still cling to my own pet theory that HMHVV (at least the vampire and the nosferatu strains) arose as some talented and unscrupolous magicogenetist researcher's attempt to create a transmissable carrier that would reliably bestow immortality, a package of useful Cirtter powers, and Awakened Magical aptitude to the recipient.

Good candidates are either the Therans, the Denairastas Clan, a Horror Cult (Nemesis, Chantrel's Horror, and whatisname the Horror that plagued Aina all would fit as MO), or the elves of the Blood Woood. We already know that some rather impressive magical discoveries (e.g. the rituals that create cyberzombies) occurred in the timeline between the ED setting (soon after the Scourge) and the end of the Fourth World, so the creation of HMHVV-I occurred in the same time frame, possibly by the same or similar groups that created the cybermantic rituals (both inventions harken to the same motives: partially successful attempts at immortality and empowerment).

The vampire and the nosferatu strains were different attempts at the same discovery (say the vampire occurred first, as the nosferatu is a second, more successful attempt, or the nosferatu was invented first for humans, and the vampire is an attempt to duplicate the discovery for other mutahuman races, most likely either elves or orks), while HMHVV-II and HMHVV-III are in all evidence unwanted random later mutations as they serve no useful purpose, by the same genetic drift that created the Changelings.

The Allergies and other drawbacks are in all evidence imperfections of the invention, while the Essence and Dietary requirements are either that or necessary flaws which the inventor accepted to power the transformation. Moreover, the fact that in the Sixth World there are groups (such as the Ordo Maximus) that are attempting the improve HMHVV-I by magicogenetical research is strongly suggestive that this is how the virus was created in the first place.

Of course. Whip adepts get bonuses to solving puzzles and shooting people who have swords. *grin*

Different whip adept.

I think it should be noted (IIRC) that people suppose that ED was the 4th world. It could have been the 2nd world for all we know.

You couldn't find "Lash Larue" ?

(I think I spelled that right.)

It raises an interesting possiblity, vampires are in theory immortal but unlike Harlequin or Leonardy they would not be active during the down time. You'd need a house rule of them being frozen, otherwise the essence loss problem would mean they would be dead in a year at the most.

That having been said, sure a long term planning vampire with a dragon's patience and scheming, maybe with a cult of followers that has been follwoing him for generatinos-oh yeah, I can work with that.

During the 6th World, there are some individuals that remember the 4th World and physical evidence of a previous age of magic. In ED, there are some people that remember a previous Age of magic, and physical evidence of it (the Age of Dragons, they call it). The simplest, most natural assumption is that the Age of Dragons was the 2nd World, ED the 4th World, and SR the 6th World.

I suppose if said banshee/vampire/nosferatu was big and ugly enough in terms of initiation, it could work. Didn't Aina manage to heal someone during a tiny trickle of mana, and give someone a ticking anyeurism without one?

More than that, in the novel Nosferatu by Carl Sargent and Marc Cascoigne there was a vampire that survived the downtime prior to the Sixth Age. I guess that answers the question.

- J.

Should I be keeping an eye out for a new PbP game?

Did Lash La Rue ever kill Dracula? If so, did he then resurrect Dracula for the sole purpose of killing him again?

Didn't mention HOW, at all?

Mana spike. They don't need the high mana level to live or to use their powers, they just need it to transform. He was a spike-baby Elf who just happened to have the rare genes that allow an Elf to survive Infection by a Nosferatu and was infected at a fifth-world mana spike.

yeah, thar was the explanation behind nosferatu 2055

All it said, I think, was that he was born during a mana spike. I'll be going home next week and can get the book to take a look for anything more concrete.

Yep, think about statistical oddity: Spike-baby Elf gets born, gets infected with Nosferatu strain, and has the rare genes that allow to survive that infection. Too bad that IIRC, according to a commnt by AH, nature erased the oddity by ensuring his bizarre genetic makeup gave him a taste for the blood and Essence of people with his own genetic pattern, so he single-handedly sucked his bloodline dry and prevented new elven nosferatu from being born. Too bad, elven nosferatu magician/mystic adept was the apex of cool, only elven drake magician/mystic adept could stand to it.

Drake? Since when is Serrin Shamander (sp?) a drake?

Wasn't him.
was another Elf who summoned a big mean nasty spirit through the Troll Bear Shaman Samurai.

I haven't read that in a few years. I guess it's about time again though cuz I don't remember that.

Erm...
...The character [Niall] who did the summoning was a powerful Elf magician, working on his own [against the wishes of his peers] and using the contained power of a magical storm/The Wild Hunt.

Without that level of power [which nearly killed him], the spell wouldn't have worked - grounding the Spirit through the Troll Bear Shaman.

Niall, now I remember, went out into that manastorm, nearly killing himself, then flew out under the radar/mana-based-fog. You know, if the "good guys" (I'm not really sure Nial is a "good-guy") have so much trouble in Tir-east, it sounds like a prime place for a tac nuke. But hey, I'm just like that. Make the Seele Court glow!

Wasn't referring to him, just thinking about character concepts in general. Elves are just not that impressive crunchywise, Dwarves beat them hands down for all-around flexible bonuses, and nobody beats the pointy-ears for the cool factor (except the dryads, and they are elven cubed). As such, IMO nothing can beat the elven nosferatu magician/mystic-adept at cool badassitude, except the elven drake magician/mystic adept (think Luther squared against an elf mystic adept Ryan Mercury).

Perhaps instead of this, he might have just sealed himself in an air tight container, avoiding the essence loss.

Oh, okay. That would be a good fight. Think we could sell tickets?

Would vampires still lose Essence if they're affected by Induced Dormancy? I mean, it says they're unconscious, not in suspended animation.

And isn't the mana lull only about 2000 years or so? The 5th World is longer than that, according to the Sixth World Wiki. So, wouldn't there be some vampires from the 5th age, or some magic in the late BC?

Downtime is often referred to as lasting about 5200 years or so.

The Downcycle is about 5000 years or so, if I remember correctly.

Edit: Damn! Too many open tabs.

Ah, good old retcon.

No retcon. It has always been that way, ever since first edition.

I actually ran with this idea 2 games back. The players were trapped on a small Italian islands off Mezzogiorno, and because I was feeling creepy, I made it the site of a Roman Nosferatu's burial - something like Caius Ferrus Scipio, the Bloodletter of Caesarea, Betrayer of Legion IX Ferrata, blah blah, blah. I made up a whole story about how he had sold his 'soul to Ba'al Hamon' (spirit pact with a shadow spirit) and betrayed his legion to Carthage during one of their perpetual battles, and in exchange the spirit showed him where he could catch himself some HMHVV, and gave him some mystical blessings.

Eventually the Romans subdued him, shipped him to the island, and strapped him to a table and got some way powerful oracle (I.E. 'has an Initiate grade' from Antiniopolis) to bless a stone tomb which would force him to sleep. The players didn't find out more than a tenth of any of this, and the nosferatu never woke up, but I was in a BPRD mood and had been inspired by an Abe Sapien comic I read.

I hope this is a sufficiently non-emo, non Anne-Rice vampire story for you.

yes, that shall suffice, thank you.

Ah. I thought I read somewhere in 1st Edition that it was a 2,000 year lull. My mistake.

It's about 2500 years to the downpoint of the cycle, then another 2500 until it reaches the point where magic starts working again. So, that 2000 year number might have come from that.

Makes sense. Great quote, by the way!